Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

I'll happily condemn every liberal who wrote a foreword to that book without mentioning the antisemitism it contains.

Ah, only the foreword? You're not interested in liberals who review the book and don't mention it. Understood. Antisemitism, just for forewords. Got it.

[Strontium]

3 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Ah, only the foreword? You're not interested in liberals who review the book and don't mention it. Understood. Antisemitism, just for forewords. Got it.

 

If you're asking me whether every vaguely positive mention of Hobson and his work must reference antisemitism, it's a resounding no.

 

A good analogy is Shakespeare. I wouldn't expect every person who professed to be a Shakespeare fan to qualify it by mentioning antisemitism. But it would be decidedly odd if a person who was writing a foreword to a new edition of The Merchant of Venice didn't mention it. Therein lies the difference.

[Pureblood]

Why don't people ignore the Libtard, Clegg-felching, trolling blob?  Don't let him derail the thread with all this nonsense.

[Numero Veinticinco]

9 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

If you're asking me whether every vaguely positive mention of Hobson and his work must reference antisemitism, it's a resounding no.

That, quite clearly, isn't what I was asking. I was talking about a full review, which you haven't castigated for not mentioning the 1902, pre-war, pre-holocaust, 100+ year old tropes that seem to briefly appear and not be a major part of the book. A full review on the Liberal Democrat History Group website. Not a 'vaguely positive mention'. A review of The Merchant of Venice might warrant a mention. So I disagree with your not-so good analogy.

[Numero Veinticinco]

18 minutes ago, TK421 said:

Why don't people ignore the Libtard, Clegg-felching, trolling blob?  Don't let him derail the thread with all this nonsense.

'Libtard'. That's only acceptable to use as an insult if you're an obese, southern-inbred Trump supporter. 

 

But, to answer your needlessly insulting question... because I think he's salvageable and with some tweaks to the way he presents himself he could live up to some of the praise he heaps upon himself. 

[Pureblood]

31 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

because I think he's salvageable and with some tweaks to the way he presents himself he could live up to some

of the praise he heaps upon himself. 

Hah.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

If you're asking me whether every vaguely positive mention of Hobson and his work must reference antisemitism, it's a resounding no.

 

A good analogy is Shakespeare. I wouldn't expect every person who professed to be a Shakespeare fan to qualify it by mentioning antisemitism. But it would be decidedly odd if a person who was writing a foreword to a new edition of The Merchant of Venice didn't mention it. Therein lies the difference.

Is anti-Semitism central to that book? Like everyone else here, I haven’t read it, so the only anti-Semitism I'm aware of is a few lines on page 64.

 

It seems a more accurate Shakespeare analogy would be writing a forewing to A Midsummer Night's Dream without condemning the heightist insult ("begone thou minimus of hindering knotgrass made") it contains in one scene.

[Stickman]

I guess if Corbyn is giving the stereotypical impression of Jews as controlling wealth and banks then I guess the one good thing that could come from it is that Harry Potter books are fucked off

 

[Rico1304]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/vital-monologue-anti-semitism-jeremy-corbyn/

[moof]

James O’Brien is a total fucking hack. 

[moof]

This hilariously timed bullshit smear is hilarious and bullshit. And utterly transparent. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/vital-monologue-anti-semitism-jeremy-corbyn/

cba listening.  Does he say anything new?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

38 minutes ago, moof said:

James O’Brien is a total fucking hack. 

I used to think he was OK, but now it seems that his schtick consists of little more than bullying stupid Brexiteers* who phone in to his shows.

 

(FAO Gnash - I'm not saying all Brexiteers are stupid; I'm saying that O'Brien selectively bullies the stupid ones.)

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Meanwhile, away from "Corbyn is an anti-Semite/a Remoaner/a Brexiteer" the planet is fucked as a result (largely) of the worst excesses of capitalism.  This is an emergency.

 

Guess who is taking a lead in taking this shit seriously.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/climate-change-environment-emergency-commons-motion-mps-vote-latest-a8895456.html?fbclid=IwAR0t9R34zogGtFBO3F7P3nPX_NvgD8NaaazBcFphN0eii3q8cLSiizNIu0c

 

[mattyq]

4 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I used to think he was OK, but now it seems that his schtick consists of little more than bullying stupid Brexiteers* who phone in to his shows.

 

(FAO Gnash - I'm not saying all Brexiteers are stupid; I'm saying that O'Brien selectively bullies the stupid ones.)

Most are fucking morons though

[RobbieOR]

15 hours ago, moof said:

James O’Brien is a total fucking hack. 

 

He's the very definition of why the FBPE lot are horrendous. Privileged cunts who can't see the bigger picture in all of this. Same goes for any 'labour' supporter in the wider media. They care about about one thing. 

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, RobbieOR said:

 

He's the very definition of why the FBPE lot are horrendous. Privileged cunts who can't see the bigger picture in all of this. Same goes for any 'labour' supporter in the wider media. They care about about one thing. 

Yes, as long as we get JC into power we can ignore any negatives amongst him and his followers.  

[RobbieOR]

Well there is a fairly good chance people won't be still using foodbanks if he does instead of fighting a battle that is never going to be won.

[Numero Veinticinco]

I can’t get that James O’Brien link to work on my phone, but one thing he is not is a hack. He may or may not be a twat, a bully, or whatever else. A hack? Not for me. I’m going to try playing it on my PC in a bit. But considering who posted it, I suspect it will be criticising Corbyn (otherwise, of course, he wouldn’t posted it). 

[Numero Veinticinco]

15 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

cba listening.  Does he say anything new?

New... maybe not. I haven't read too much of the criticism from the likes of James O'Brien on this, so I'm not sure what has already been said. However, in my view he makes both some interesting and powerful points and some mistakes. He asks, in response to Labour releasing a statement that says Corbyn rejects the antisemitic parts of the book, why Corbyn didn't mention that rejection in the foreword. I think that's a fair question. He talks about how Corbyn won't talk about this in public at the behest of Milne. Fair. He asks why his cultish supporters don't ask these questions or hold him to account. Also, I think fair. 

 

What is less fair, in my view, is that he conflates talking about an entire book and saying it is 'brilliant' with agreeing with every line in a book written a hundred years ago. Of course, that standard would be ridiculous for anybody else reviewing a book. If you said the bible was a beautiful book of stories, it doesn't mean you support the stoning of people. He strongly insinuates that Milne is a 'baddy' because he has been seen on a stage with Putin. That's ridiculous. 

 

In my view, Corbyn was backing the critique of imperialism. I'm not even sure he read the fucking book, to be honest. I think Corbyn is far more likely to be guilty of incompetence than he is racial hatred. If his detractors want to bring him down, I would start there, because if they think they're doing anything other than preaching to the converted with this 'said something written in 1902 that doesn't sound that bad to ordinary people was brilliant', they're mistaken. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

No surprises from O'Brien, then.

 

As for Corbyn's "cultish" supporters, the only responses I've seen are the kind of arguments you make in your second paragraph.  Either you too have been brainwashed and are now ONE OF US, ONE OF US, or (possibly, just possibly) it's not a cult after all - just a load of people who think that we can do better than austerity, racism and environmental destruction and who can see through the lies of those who want to stop us.

 

(Incidentally, can you really see any circumstance in which a back-bench MP, with no particular ambition for high office, would write a foreword to an old book - unknown to anyone except policy nerds - without reading it? Really? That suggestion is even dafter than the accusations of anti-Semitism.)

[Jenson]

The staged and staggered timings of all these "revelations" betrays the true agenda. When was this foreword written? 2011, and it's only been "discovered" this week??

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Do not attribute to malice that which can be more easily explained by stupidity.

 

I don't believe he's antisemitic, but - like the mural - the worrying thing is he's not very good at spotting it. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 minutes ago, Jenson said:

The staged and staggered timings of all these "revelations" betrays the true agenda. When was this foreword written? 2011, and it's only been "discovered" this week??

Some phrases missing from the various criticisms of Corbyn. 

 

"I've read Hobson's book..."

"When I read Corbyn's foreword..."

"Like most commentators, I've always condemned the anti-Semitism in this book.."

"I spoke to Jeremy in 2011, to say I was disappointed in his foreword..."

 

It's just another bullshit round of noise-making because there's an election today. I was actually unsure of who to vote for in my ward, but these desperate pricks have convinced me to vote Labour. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

20 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

No surprises from O'Brien, then.

 

As for Corbyn's "cultish" supporters, the only responses I've seen are the kind of arguments you make in your second paragraph.  Either you too have been brainwashed and are now ONE OF US, ONE OF US, or (possibly, just possibly) it's not a cult after all - just a load of people who think that we can do better than austerity, racism and environmental destruction and who can see through the lies of those who want to stop us.

 

(Incidentally, can you really see any circumstance in which a back-bench MP, with no particular ambition for high office, would write a foreword to an old book - unknown to anyone except policy nerds - without reading it? Really? That suggestion is even dafter than the accusations of anti-Semitism.)

Yes. I can.