Bad shit going down in Brussels

[Section_31]

If you read the history of Islam, including its origins, you'll see plenty of violence.

 

Same with the Bible, my mum goes to church but she's never stoned anyone to death for eating pork as far as I know. The US constitution allows you to bear arms even if you're mentally ill. Words are words, no? Shit evolves. Islam evolved. 30 years ago muslims were joining local councils, opening local shops and walking around in jeans and T-shirts, now they're in burqas and fleeing to join extremist organisations - what's changed? 

[Trumo]

I wonder how much it pisses them off to be referred to as "the so-called Islamic State" by the BBC. Members of Islamic State that is, not the gays.

[skend04]

Same with the Bible, my mum goes to church but she's never stoned anyone to death for eating pork as far as I know. The US constitution allows you to bear arms even if you're mentally ill. Words are words, no? Shit evolves. Islam evolved. 30 years ago muslims were joining local councils, opening local shops and walking around in jeans and T-shirts, now they're in burqas and fleeing to join extremist organisations - what's changed?

It's like violence never existed in human evolution pre-religion.

[VladimirIlyich]

The two convicted today - one the son of a diplomat the other a physics student. Most have good levels of education - I wonder what the one unifying factor is?

Drones? Mortars? Helicopter gunships? ...Oh and they bombed their Uncle's chippy.

[Rico1304]

It's like violence never existed in human evolution pre-religion.

It's like things that 'happened' in prehistory, like Mo and Jesus, should be ignored when it comes to law making doesn't it?

 

Atlanta shows what happens when the religious extremist get their way. Hopefully the governer will block it, there's certainly huge pressure.

 

Looks like it's spreading.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/north-carolina-lgbt-discrimination_us_56f2b7dbe4b0c3ef5217676c

[Naz17]

Same with the Bible, my mum goes to church but she's never stoned anyone to death for eating pork as far as I know. The US constitution allows you to bear arms even if you're mentally ill. Words are words, no? Shit evolves. Islam evolved. 30 years ago muslims were joining local councils, opening local shops and walking around in jeans and T-shirts, now they're in burqas and fleeing to join extremist organisations - what's changed?

There's a difference between islam and Muslims. Generally speaking Islam isn't allowed to "evolve", it's called "Bid'ah" -look it up. Islam is supposedly the perfect religion with no room whatsoever for change because to do so would disobey God and the prophet Muhammad.

 

Muslims are human beings who claim to be following Islam. I would argue that those who have adapted to western life do so in spite of Islam rather than because of it. For example according to authentic hadith and as agreed by many Sunni scholars, music is haram (except for a simple drum). I'd love to know how many "Muslims" avoid listening to music.

[Jairzinho]

 

Just want to comment on the Brussels thing - terrible tragedy and a complicated issue. Radical Islam is part of the problem. As is Western policy in Muslim countries. As is a disaffected and disconnected underclass of young men with limited prospects. There are other issues too, but they strike me as the three biggest. Any lasting solution must find answers to all three issues.

 

They're one main problem really, and it'll only get solved when it is tackled as one.

[Rico1304]

Worth a read,

 

https://twitter.com/maajidnawaz/status/712937552974585856

[Boss]

So why is a south London lad arsed about Syria, Afganistan etc. You didn't mention religion once

 

You're doing the typical tory thing of explaining things in really reductionist terms. To extrapolate your point of view out, it's like saying the conflict between Britain and the IRA was just a religious sectarian conflict and had nothing to do with British rule, oppression and the socio political issues that centred around that time. You're ignoring all context and vilifying billions of people (muslims) in the process, can you not see the foolishness of that?

[dennis tooth]

So it's just a coincidence that Isis are chucking the lovely gays off buildings - exactly as it says in the Koran?

No co incidence is found in the following questions.

Who funded empowered and armed saddam?

Who funded and armed bin laden?

Who created al queada?

Who created and funded hamas?

Who created isis? Who had the isis leader in prison high max security where barely anyone innocent or guilty is lucky to get out alive and seemingly let him go and pretend it never happend and he appears next thing with funds and arms and acheiving US objectives in the region.

Amazing co incidence scenes to throw shapes to.

[dennis tooth]

There's a difference between islam and Muslims. Generally speaking Islam isn't allowed to "evolve", it's called "Bid'ah" -look it up. Islam is supposedly the perfect religion with no room whatsoever for change because to do so would disobey God and the prophet Muhammad.

 

Muslims are human beings who claim to be following Islam. I would argue that those who have adapted to western life do so in spite of Islam rather than because of it. For example according to authentic hadith and as agreed by many Sunni scholars, music is haram (except for a simple drum). I'd love to know how many "Muslims" avoid listening to music.

What part of what you said is exclusive to muslims?

You then single out sunni scholars not the koran to demonstrate nothing but stupidity. You have read the koran but not any other religious book i can tell you what you dont know in that religious holy books are all full of shite interpreted a thousand different ways the koran is no exception.

Theres nothing in the bible that says gods will evolves and that it is his word.

[dennis tooth]

Exactly, but if the holy book he follows says "all banks should be robbed" then it's a different matter.

Well jesus robbed a bank im not sure what it says in the koran about suicide bombs in airports being good islamey stuff to do.

Probably about as much as the bible or torah says.

[dennis tooth]

Not at all, I've called out the Catholics in it too, but maybe you missed it. Also worth pointing out its illegal in the US too, unlike in the Islamic countries where it's legal and encouraged. There was a great documentary on last week actually about the Islamic police in Indonesia and how they are treating transgender women. Worth a watch.

Which islamic countries is it legal in?

[Naz17]

What part of what you said is exclusive to muslims?

You then single out sunni scholars not the koran to demonstrate nothing but stupidity. You have read the koran but not any other religious book i can tell you what you dont know in that religious holy books are all full of shite interpreted a thousand different ways the koran is no exception.

Theres nothing in the bible that says gods will evolves and that it is his word.

Verbal reasoning isn't strong with this one.

 

All I'm saying is analyse before concluding. It's perfectly ok to say "I don't know if Islam has anything to do with the disproportionate percentage of reported terrorist attacks being perpretrated by Muslims because I am not well read into Islam and its teachings". However to conclude that it has nothing to do with Islam (and even saying it has everything to do with Islam) WITHOUT doing the due diligence is ridiculous. All governments are encouraged to pursue evidence-based policy making - this standard should apply to the electorate forming opinions too (given democratic governments are a function of the public's opinions).

[dennis tooth]

It's like things that 'happened' in prehistory, like Mo and Jesus, should be ignored when it comes to law making doesn't it?

 

Atlanta shows what happens when the religious extremist get their way. Hopefully the governer will block it, there's certainly huge pressure.

 

Looks like it's spreading.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/north-carolina-lgbt-discrimination_us_56f2b7dbe4b0c3ef5217676c

Is it religious extremists thats the problem then not islam per se at all. Because that seems to be what you say here.

 

Make your mind up.

[Jairzinho]

Verbal reasoning isn't strong with this one.

 

All I'm saying is analyse before concluding. It's perfectly ok to say "I don't know if Islam has anything to do with the disproportionate percentage of reported terrorist attacks being perpretrated by Muslims because I am not well read into Islam and its teachings". However to conclude that it has nothing to do with Islam (and even saying it has everything to do with Islam) WITHOUT doing the due diligence is ridiculous. All governments are encouraged to pursue evidence-based policy making - this standard should apply to the electorate forming opinions too (given democratic governments are a function of the public's opinions).

 

Not a huge amount of people doing that.

[dennis tooth]

Verbal reasoning isn't strong with this one.

 

All I'm saying is analyse before concluding. It's perfectly ok to say "I don't know if Islam has anything to do with the disproportionate percentage of reported terrorist attacks being perpretrated by Muslims because I am not well read into Islam and its teachings". However to conclude that it has nothing to do with Islam (and even saying it has everything to do with Islam) WITHOUT doing the due diligence is ridiculous. All governments are encouraged to pursue evidence-based policy making - this standard should apply to the electorate forming opinions too (given democratic governments are a function of the public's opinions).

Yes analyse. Usually involves comparison and control groups and actual analysis.

 

How do you read one holy book and claim it is the only one that says certain types of shit?

Democratic governments do not reflect public opinion at all thats been proven study aftrr study and take any issue you want i will show it. Evidence based on what? Rupert murdochs opinion?

Islam is not connected with most terrorist attacks.

The worlds biggest sponsor of international terrorism as described by the UN is the USA.

The only common factor hussien al queada isis is the USA.

None of them are acting under ISLAM as it happens.

[dennis tooth]

Not a huge amount of people doing that.

Cant be anything to do with it since this only began since 9/11. Its like the premiership. Nothing existed before it.

[Rico1304]

Is it religious extremists thats the problem then not islam per se at all. Because that seems to be what you say here.

Make your mind up.

Islamists and Jihadis - they are the problem. Lots of people more knowledgeable than me say Islam needs a reformation.

[dennis tooth]

There's a difference between islam and Muslims. Generally speaking Islam isn't allowed to "evolve", it's called "Bid'ah" -look it up. Islam is supposedly the perfect religion with no room whatsoever for change because to do so would disobey God and the prophet Muhammad.

 

Muslims are human beings who claim to be following Islam. I would argue that those who have adapted to western life do so in spite of Islam rather than because of it. For example according to authentic hadith and as agreed by many Sunni scholars, music is haram (except for a simple drum). I'd love to know how many "Muslims" avoid listening to music.

Funny really islam isnt allowed to evolve/innovate yet you claim the religion has evolved suicide bombers use of hum vees, rocket launchers, drones, M16s, computers, the internet, cameras, new fun ways to kill people, isis are apparent very tech savvy and innovative as a direct result of its teachings? What planet are you on?

[dennis tooth]

Islamists and Jihadis - they are the problem. Lots of people more knowledgeable than me say Islam needs a reformation.

Oh who?

And should they be allowed to decide peoples religion and how they should interpret it Isnt that the same thing as ISIS the taliban al queada do?

Funny you talk the same language.

[Naz17]

Not a huge amount of people doing that.

You may be right, i don't know the stats. But my biggest gripe are towards those who do.

[dennis tooth]

You may be right, i don't know the stats. But my biggest gripe are towards those who do.

You dont know shit.

Copy right?

Tango and cash.

[Section_31]

There's a difference between islam and Muslims. Generally speaking Islam isn't allowed to "evolve", it's called "Bid'ah" -look it up. Islam is supposedly the perfect religion with no room whatsoever for change because to do so would disobey God and the prophet Muhammad.

 

Muslims are human beings who claim to be following Islam. I would argue that those who have adapted to western life do so in spite of Islam rather than because of it. For example according to authentic hadith and as agreed by many Sunni scholars, music is haram (except for a simple drum). I'd love to know how many "Muslims" avoid listening to music.

 

 

whether that's how it's written or not, it clearly has eveolved hasn't it? Otherwise Sunnis and shias wouldn't be blowing shit out of each other. 

 

A lot of the middle east used to be reasonably tolerant and secular, Iraq had more Christians than Pitcairn Island, Tariq Aziz is/was a Christian I think. 'Islam' isn't some monolithic barbarian head chopping religion, a faction has evolved that is and it's screaming the loudest, the more we call it the enemy - the easier it is for it to draw recruits. 

 

There are radicals and extremists in every ideology. Radical Christians, radical Communists, radical bankers. George Osborne is an economic extremist, Donald Trump is a political extremist. 

 

Brussells and Paris was all about starting these conversations, we are effectively giving them what they wanted. 

[Naz17]

Funny really islam isnt allowed to evolve/innovate yet you claim the religion has evolved suicide bombers use of hum vees, rocket launchers, drones, M16s, computers, the internet, cameras, new fun ways to kill people, isis are apparent very tech savvy and innovative as a direct result of its teachings? What planet are you on?

Dennis, do you believe these attacks have nothing to do with islam?