Labour Leadership Contest

[Jairzinho]

[Stickman]

Kinda ironic the right of the party saying the left will, cost us the next election when in 1981 Labour under Michael Foot had a double figures lead over the Tories till the likes of Jenkins , Williams , Owen and the other one fucked off to the SDP.....resulting in Labours lead crumbling and further being destroyed by the Falklands War. The media never want you to know it was this war that won the Conservatives the election not Foot being incompetent .

It's funny how Foot's leadership is often slagged off but if only for those two events he could and that Labour Party have been elected and what a better country and society we could have become.

[A Red]

Kinda ironic the right of the party saying the left will, cost us the next election when in 1981 Labour under Michael Foot had a double figures lead over the Tories till the likes of Jenkins , Williams , Owen and the other one fucked off to the SDP.....

Bill Rodgers, a scouser, was a few years above my dad at Quarry Bank school

[Anubis]

Juvenile, but funny. Worthy of us.

 

https://m.facebook.com/pages/Liz-Kendall-for-Conservative-Leader/785674451530108

[Stickman]

Bill Rodgers, a scouser, was a few years above my dad at Quarry Bank school

I thought he won the Open ?

[A Red]

I thought he won the Open ?

My dad was shit at golf

[Section_31]

Genius.

[Stickman]

I wonder how much he weights ?

[Bobby Hundreds]

Look how young he looks full head of hair an everyfin

[Stickman]

What's happened to that blokes syrup in the front row? It looks like it's waving at Elton's .

[AngryOfTuebrook]

As soon as Corbyn gets onto the subject of tax it is game over election lost. It is that simple.

Do you reckon people assume he's in favour of leaving taxes as they are?

 

I'd be gutted if he said anything other than "make the rich pay their fair share" and I'd be very surprised if I was in a minority among his supporters.  (Bear in mind that, in a YouGov poll, a majority of the electorate were in favour of 75% tax on the highest earners.)

[Jairzinho]

I'd really like Corbyn to float the idea of maybe one more tax bracket.. 

 

Someone on 32k p/a pays the same rate as someone on 145k p/a. Similarly, someone on 150k p/a pays the same rate as someone on £3m p/a. 

 

The 20% - 40% jump is far too big. I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to come up with something fairer, and that would actually take in more tax. Obviously it would involve the filthy rich paying a bit more (only a bit, mind), but as long as you made it quite clear that all bar the filthy rich were going to be better off (or at least no worse off) it should be popular.

 

15%/30%/40%/50% somewhere around 10k/30K/50k/250k.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

As I said after the election I'd love to see the correlation between Labour voting and being PAYE.

 

Loads of self-employed people get a bit twitchy when you start to talk tax.

Loads of self-employed people don't earn enough to pay tax, so I doubt it's that big an issue for them.

 

 15% of the workforce are classed as "self-employed" and they are disproportionately low-paid (often getting less than the National Minimum Wage).  Being "self-employed" is enough to keep them off the unemployment stats, but they are just ignored completely when it comes to counting the national average earnings.  Pretty schlick trick!

 

I think the people who are deemed to be "self-employed" could be tempted to vote for a party that promised to make employers start treating their workforce decently.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I'd really like Corbyn to float the idea of maybe one more tax bracket.. 

 

Someone on 32k p/a pays the same rate as someone on 145k p/a. Similarly, someone on 150k p/a pays the same rate as someone on £3m p/a. 

 

The 20% - 40% jump is far too big. I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to come up with something fairer, and that would actually take in more tax. Obviously it would involve the filthy rich paying a bit more (only a bit, mind), but as long as you made it quite clear that all bar the filthy rich were going to be better off (or at least no worse off) it should be popular.

 

15%/30%/40%/50% somewhere around 10k/30K/50k/250k.

Also, do something about VAT.

 

20% is preposterous.

[Jairzinho]

Loads of self-employed people don't earn enough to pay tax, so I doubt it's that big an issue for them.

 

 15% of the workforce are classed as "self-employed" and they are disproportionately low-paid (often getting less than the National Minimum Wage).  Being "self-employed" is enough to keep them off the unemployment stats, but they are just ignored completely when it comes to counting the national average earnings.  Pretty schlick trick!

 

I think the people who are deemed to be "self-employed" could be tempted to vote for a party that promised to make employers start treating their workforce decently.

 

Lots of people that are now self employed were essentially convinced, or rather coerced, to do so not just to fix unemployment figures but also to pay them £50 a week rather than £70. Many deciding that losing £20 a week was worth it in exchange for not having to go through the ritual humiliation and dehumanisation of going to the job centre every week (fortnightly to sign, but with various other "interviews"). I used to go with this kid, that I knew from coaching cricket, because he was incredibly vulnerable to being stitched up by the Job Centre (I'm not blaming individuals there, although some are utterly useless, but they are rewarded for sanctioning people).

 

I was basically the kid's lawyer and accountant.

[Jairzinho]

Also, do something about VAT.

 

20% is preposterous.

 

Of course. A high VAT rate is an attack on the poor. Pretty shit with this all over Europe as it happens, although I think some other countries have more exceptions than we do.

[Red Phoenix]

I'll give The Guardian a rest after this because I'm not sure how I can follow it (honestly I really don't even want to try, I think I've had about enough of this garbage for now.) Any of you planning on voting for Corbyn are part of a "tribe", according to Mr. Freedland, and if you vote for him you care more about identity than power. From the article linked below :

 

I suspect that gets to the nub of it. For a lot of those taking part, choosing a party leader is not about assembling a governing majority, winning power or even making a change in society. It is about identity. It is about being true to yourself. In this sense, joining the Corbyn tribe becomes something non-negotiable, or at least impregnable to routine political arguments about electability, popular appeal and the like. Those kinds of calculations are held to be cynical, because they require you to compromise something fundamental about who you are.

The unkind reading of this is to suggest that support for Corbynism, especially among the young, is a form of narcissism. In the current New Statesman, Helen Lewis notes the tendency of people on social media towards “‘virtue signalling’ – showing off to your friends about how right-on you are”. She sees the current stampede of constituency Labour parties to nominate Corbyn as an extension of this same habit. They are doing it not because they believe the 66-year-old can win in 2020, but for the same reason people retweet images of same-sex wedding ceremonies. As Lewis puts it: “They are doing it to signal that they are on the side of right and good.”

 

The Corbyn tribe cares about identity, not power

 

 

 

A couple of responses from the comment section :

 

 

Notice how anything which defies the global corporate narrative is "Utopian" whilst societies tilted towards mega wealth, corporate profit and private health care are seen as normal if not actually practical.

The Guardian coverage this week, from a so called "thinking newspaper", is a shocking indictment of politically inspired biased editorial policy.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/24/corbyn-tribe-identity-politics-labour#comment-56342034

 

 

 

Ah, yes, I see, it's tribal, and a tribe is something pre-civilised. Civilisation here is valuing the ability to get into power over having the principle or commitment to do anything when in power or even at any step on the way there.

Where do I get my blue tattoos?

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/24/corbyn-tribe-identity-politics-labour#comment-56341513

[Jairzinho]

That Freedland nonce was on QT about six months ago. I remember him not being a complete cunt to start with and then as soon as they started talking about Israel he went full Regev.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I think the inhabitants of the Westminster bubble - the institutionalised politicians, hacks, lobbyists, etc. - are so conditioned to their mindsets that they really cannot adjust to the concept that millions of people want democracy done differently.  Following on from the rise to prominence of UKIP, the SNP, and the Greens, the popularity of Jeremy Corbyn is another phenomenon that they have to rationalise away, because it doesn't fit into their unshakeable worldview.

[Jairzinho]

I think the inhabitants of the Westminster bubble - the institutionalised politicians, hacks, lobbyists, etc. - are so conditioned to their mindsets that they really cannot adjust to the concept that millions of people want democracy done differently.  Following on from the rise to prominence of UKIP, the SNP, and the Greens, the popularity of Jeremy Corbyn is another phenomenon that they have to rationalise away, because it doesn't fit into their unshakeable worldview.

 

I think proper tabloid hacks will always have plenty of work. The people in the industry worrying the most are the likes of the Guardian political commentators. Their niche on the "left" of the microscopic mainstream political spectrum would be illuminated as the fucking fraudulent waste of space that it is. A proper social democracy with actual discussion about how to tackle economic inequality, etc, just wouldn't have a market for their tedious pseudo intellectual, pseudo compassion, bullshit.

 

The Blairite safe seaters for Labour are all starting to shit themselves about what they're going to say to Mr Tesco who's given them 10k to shit all over their constituency.

[Stu Monty]

Loads of self-employed people don't earn enough to pay tax, so I doubt it's that big an issue for them.

 

15% of the workforce are classed as "self-employed" and they are disproportionately low-paid (often getting less than the National Minimum Wage). Being "self-employed" is enough to keep them off the unemployment stats, but they are just ignored completely when it comes to counting the national average earnings. Pretty schlick trick!

 

I think the people who are deemed to be "self-employed" could be tempted to vote for a party that promised to make employers start treating their workforce decently.

There are also plenty of people whose companies are doing pretty well. They, and the wife, obviously get paid minimum wage though...and hammer the dividends and expenses.

[Red Phoenix]

That Freedland nonce was on QT about six months ago. I remember him not being a complete cunt to start with and then as soon as they started talking about Israel he went full Regev.

 

Yeah I saw a clip of him on there at the same time as Galloway was on I think, might have been the same one.

[Jairzinho]

That rings a bell. Proper stitch up job on Galloway from the BBC that. 

[Red Phoenix]

That rings a bell. Proper stitch up job on Galloway from the BBC that. 

 

Can remember thinking the same thing. It was a fucking joke, especially when Freedland started waffling on.

[Anubis]

This comment under that Freedland article made me smile, mainly because it's true.

 

 

The Table Below describes how Tories and Neo-Labour view class in the UK

 

Hard Working People

 

> The Non Dom Rich

> The Rich

> Non productive pay-day loan companies

> Hedge funders

> property developers and speculators

> Exploitative employers who employ people on zero-hours contracts

> Tax avoiding corporations

> Corporations which employ lobbyists to get the best deal from the State

? Pay day loan shark companies

 

Hard Working(ish) people

 

> People who own small businesses but who evade paying taxes (tax evasion is a criminal offence)

> Small firms which pay taxes but not enough to make up the short-fall of the big corporations which tax avoid. They only have themselves to blame for being so small.

> Firms which struggle. (they should know to call it a day)

 

Not so Hard-working people

 

> People on incomes which makes them struggle to care for themselves and their families, but manage to get by

> People who have to do two jobs to make ends meet

> Working people who are living in council accommodation in areas which are slowly being gentrified but are not paying the rents which are reflecting the increases but cannot afford to pay - this puts on the borderline with

 

Not hard-working people but floating on the Scum

 

These include

> People on zero-hours contracts

> People who supplement their low income with Housing Benefit

> People who go to food banks

> People who go hungry

> The disabled

> The elderly

 

The Scum

 

>Beggars

> People who resort to criminal activity as a means of survival

> People who resort to criminal activity as a means of financial - [Those in excess of earning £50 000 - GOTO Hard Working People}

> Drug Dealers [Those in excess of earning £50 000 - GOTO Hard Working People]

> Loan Sharks [GOTO Hard Working People - Pay Day Loan companies]

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

So there you have it, the class tables according to the Tories and Neo-Labour, cut out and keep.