Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Gnasher]

6 minutes ago, skend04 said:

To be fair it appears you read fuck all you post anyway. However when and where furloughed, people tend to have time on their hands to help out. It's happening around the country. You're having real trouble comprehending things.

You pay the right money you get the right workers, it's that simple. To complain about the work shy whilst receiving massive eu support is taking the piss, I can understand the youngsters telling these landowners to go do one, fuck your asparagus.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

47 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 those who seem to believe the eu can do no wrong.

 

Again - who?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

40 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Well to be fair after the second world war Europe was a little bit tired of war so to credit peace to the eu is pushing it a bit.

This sounds a lot more like "peace and love bollocks" - after the Second World War, everyone* just decided "Hey, guys, wouldn't it be groovy if we could all just get along"?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Obviously, "everyone" in this instance excludes those European nations who have been to war with each other in the last 75 years.

[skend04]

15 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

You pay the right money you get the right workers, it's that simple. To complain about the work shy whilst receiving massive eu support is taking the piss, I can understand the youngsters telling these landowners to go do one, fuck your asparagus.

Still not comprehending.

[Gnasher]

Just now, AngryofTuebrook said:

Again - who?

Ok maybe a bit strong however not many if any on here took.issue over wealthy landowners flying in cheap labour whilst the country is in the middle of a pandemic. An act which exposes the tilted nature of massive eu grants which benefit the richest people in Britain.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

42 minutes ago, skend04 said:

How many fucking times??

 

UK PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO DO SEASONAL FARM WORK BECAUSE THEY'D HAVE TO MOVE FOR SEVERAL MONTHS A YEAR AS THE MAJORITY OF THESE FARMS ARE MILES FROM ANY TOWN AND IF THEY HAVE FAMILIES THEN ITS A VIRTUAL IMPOSSIBILITY AND IF THEY THEN HAVE TO CLAIM UC ONCE THE FARM WORK HAS FINISHED IT'D TAKE 2-3 MONTHS BEFORE THEY RECEIVED ANY BENEFITS AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN IMMIGRANTS WERE COMING OVER SINCE THE 12TH CENTURY TO DO THIS WORK?!

 

FFS! You're boring. It's genuinely worrying you keep on at the same thing when virtually no one else is bumping this thread. You've got the Brexit you want, even when you didn't vote because you knew it'd be a sledgehammer to the hopes of many youngsters. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

18 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

You pay the right money you get the right workers, it's that simple. To complain about the work shy whilst receiving massive eu support is taking the piss, I can understand the youngsters telling these landowners to go do one, fuck your asparagus.

It's not just the money, though.  Harvesting is - as it always has been and always will be (because, y'know, biology) seasonal work.  By definition, this means you need a workforce that's prepared to work on a short-term contract, irrespective of whether you pay them a decent wage.  And if you have a requirement for short-term contracts in different parts of the country, that means you need a transitory workforce, whether they come from the UK or elsewhere.

 

As we discussed to death a while ago, thousands of people expressed an interest in the harvesting jobs, then took a closer look and decided it wasn't for them.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Ok maybe a bit strong however not many if any on here took.issue over wealthy landowners flying in cheap labour whilst the country is in the middle of a pandemic. An act which exposes the tilted nature of massive eu grants which benefit the richest people in Britain.

That's your version of events.  Go back a few pages and re-read some more rounded versions of what actually happened.

[Numero Veinticinco]

On the EU preventing war between members stuff... NATO got you covered bois. That angle was always one of the less convincing reasons to stay in the EU. Not saying it hasn’t helped over the longer term, but war isn’t going to break out between these nations whether or not EU exists. There ain’t no me and you. Not no mo’. 

[aRdja]

Real interesting take on those Romanian fruit pickers from Jeremy Corbyn 

 

 

[Gnasher]

48 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

It's not just the money, though.  Harvesting is - as it always has been and always will be (because, y'know, biology) seasonal work.  By definition, this means you need a workforce that's prepared to work on a short-term contract, irrespective of whether you pay them a decent wage.  And if you have a requirement for short-term contracts in different parts of the country, that means you need a transitory workforce, whether they come from the UK or elsewhere.

 

As we discussed to death a while ago, thousands of people expressed an interest in the harvesting jobs, then took a closer look and decided it wasn't for them.

I think your last sentence sort of discredits your argument angry, they did indeed apply and as you say " when they took a closer they decided it wasnt for them"    now I wonder why? 

[Section_31]

I honestly do wonder if the EU can survive in its current form. I think its massive expansion East was done in large part to keep those countries away from Russia or at least to try and steer them towards a western model and the USA. Poland have seemingly rejected that as have Hungary.

 

The EEC/EC as I remember it was a loose coalition of equal partners, mostly Nato members, westernised democracies with comparable economies. Some kind of northern European alliance with the UK, Scandinavia, Germany France and the low countries would be truly formidable and every bit a potential match for the USA, China and Russia. Won't happen now like. 

[Jairzinho]

16 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Some kind of northern European alliance with the UK, Scandinavia, Germany France and the low countries would be truly formidable and every bit a potential match for the USA, China and Russia. Won't happen now like. 

I've pondered that, but how would it work without any cheap migrant labour? Or would it just come from outside of Europe? Also, how would it work with the UK not making anything? Germany still makes stuff, the Scandies have oil, gas, minerals, etc.

 

We've got banking and carphone warehouse. What if Frankfurt just said, "we can do the banking".

[Section_31]

7 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

I've pondered that, but how would it work without any cheap migrant labour? Or would it just come from outside of Europe? Also, how would it work with the UK not making anything? Germany still makes stuff, the Scandies have oil, gas, minerals, etc.

 

We've got banking and carphone warehouse. What if Frankfurt just said, "we can do the banking".

It worked pretty well pre-2004, I'm pretty sure I'd eaten strawberries and supermarket sandwiches in the EC era!

 

Liverpool and the likes probably benefited more back then too from European infrastructure money and we still had the benefit of their environmental safeguards.

 

There was no euro, no scenes of Greeks being clouted with batons to appease Germany's frugal economic instincts. No migrant mass labour market so no ammo for the likes of Farage to stir up racial strife. 

 

In terms of what we offer, still the sixth biggest economy in the world, biggest military and intelligence operation in Europe too. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

The EU is preparing a €750 billion package of grants (not loans) to help the Member States worst hit by the coronavirus. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/world/europe/coronavirus-europe-bailout.html

 

Obviously, the European country worst hit by the virus has already chosen not to be a part of this.

[Gnasher]

11 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The EU is preparing a €750 billion package of grants (not loans) to help the Member States worst hit by the coronavirus. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/world/europe/coronavirus-europe-bailout.html

 

Obviously, the European country worst hit by the virus has already chosen not to be a part of this.

I dont think the eu response to this crisis is anything to brag about angry but if you're happy in a state delusion who am I to truth burst your little bubble 

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

It's not just the money, though.  Harvesting is - as it always has been and always will be (because, y'know, biology) seasonal work.  By definition, this means you need a workforce that's prepared to work on a short-term contract, irrespective of whether you pay them a decent wage.  And if you have a requirement for short-term contracts in different parts of the country, that means you need a transitory workforce, whether they come from the UK or elsewhere.

 

As we discussed to death a while ago, thousands of people expressed an interest in the harvesting jobs, then took a closer look and decided it wasn't for them.

Are you saying the applicant's applied for the jobs then choose not to do them because they didnt realise it was seasonal work? Really?  If that's not what you meant why bother mention it?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

On the EU preventing war between members stuff... NATO got you covered bois. That angle was always one of the less convincing reasons to stay in the EU. Not saying it hasn’t helped over the longer term, but war isn’t going to break out between these nations whether or not EU exists. There ain’t no me and you. Not no mo’. 

Conversely... all 27 could leave NATO tomorrow and they wouldn’t go to war, because EU membership makes it practically impossible. 

The eastward expansion of NATO was one of the primary causes of the war in Ukraine, so NATO's credentials as a force for peace are less than impeccable. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

27 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I dont think the eu response to this crisis is anything to brag about angry but if you're happy in a state delusion who am I to truth burst your little bubble 

You don't think hundreds of billions of grant funding would be helpful?

 

Care to explain why not?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

25 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Are you saying the applicant's applied for the jobs then choose not to do them because they didnt realise it was seasonal work? Really?  If that's not what you meant why bother mention it?

Tens of thousands registered an interest; only a few hundred turned up.

 

Do you think that, in any given year, there are tens of thousands of people just gagging for that type of work? Or, is it possible - just possible - that there's a pandemic and a lockdown this year, leading tens of thousands of people to enquire about temporary work (which, on closer inspection, turns out to be shit work)?

[Gnasher]

6 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Tens of thousands registered an interest; only a few hundred turned up.

 

Do you think that, in any given year, there are tens of thousands of people just gagging for that type of work? Or, is it possible - just possible - that there's a pandemic and a lockdown this year, leading tens of thousands of people to enquire about temporary work (which, on closer inspection, turns out to be shit work)?

You havnt answered the question.

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

It's not just the money, though.  Harvesting is - as it always has been and always will be (because, y'know, biology) seasonal work.  By definition, this means you need a workforce that's prepared to work on a short-term contract, irrespective of whether you pay them a decent wage.  And if you have a requirement for short-term contracts in different parts of the country, that means you need a transitory workforce, whether they come from the UK or elsewhere.

 

As we discussed to death a while ago, thousands of people expressed an interest in the harvesting jobs, then took a closer look and decided it wasn't for them.

So the reason thousands applied but only a few decided to take the jobs was because British workers didnt realise when they applied that strawberries only grew in the summer?

[Numero Veinticinco]

41 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Conversely... all 27 could leave NATO tomorrow and they wouldn’t go to war, because EU membership makes it practically impossible. 

The eastward expansion of NATO was one of the primary causes of the war in Ukraine, so NATO's credentials as a force for peace are less than impeccable. 

No, no. Not for peace, but for war between those states. Which is what is being spoken about. Like I say, it’s one of the least convincing reasons for keeping our membership of the EU (which, like any sensible person, I would have preferred to remain). 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

23 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

You havnt answered the question.

I did.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

13 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

So the reason thousands applied but only a few decided to take the jobs was because British workers didnt realise when they applied that strawberries only grew in the summer?

That's not what I said.