Hillsborough files released next week!

[devilsadvocate]

Will the truth finally be revealed and open the way for justice to be done, at long last?

[FanchesterCity]

Will the truth finally be revealed and open the way for justice to be done, at long last?

 

Sadly I don't think so.

 

The media will select excerpts and sensationalise certain aspects, but the people who deserve to know (the friends and families) probably won't get the answers.

 

If I had my way... I'd make everybody read the Taylor report... it tells enough to explain how Liverpool fans were just like any other fans that day, and what happened could have happened to anybody... and still could again unless we all keep out wits about us, and refuse to accept crap from authorities (when the decisions they make are clearly crap ones).

 

I think about that day every time I go to a match with my son. I have a quick look around, and see the faces of people, and think what 'could' happen.

 

It still makes me angry to this day. Esp the FA actually, possibly more so than the police organisation (or lack of). They took advantage of fans hunger for games, treated them like cattle, and didn't give a flying f**k about best choice of venue or which end to place fans. And whilst stadiums are now much safer.... they still think it's OK to make Northerners travel to inconvenient locations, they still make a balls up of ticket allocations, and I hope to God they have their emergency planning in a better state now.

 

Sorry... it just pisses me off that much. I'll never forget their incompetence.

 

RIP96

[WaltonRed]

I think its going to uncomfortable reading but hopefully its the start

 

the committee wont allow for anything which Fanchester alludes too

 

I still half expect the government to keep it all secret

 

next week is a milestone in the fight defo

[FanchesterCity]

I think its going to uncomfortable reading but hopefully its the start

 

the committee wont allow for anything which Fanchester alludes too

 

I still half expect the government to keep it all secret

 

next week is a milestone in the fight defo

 

Im not sure the 'truth' is even there to be found in the paperwork and statements. I suspect most of the paperwork was done in the immediate aftermath and 'tempered' before pen was put to paper. And any controversial accounts probably found their way to a shredder over the years.

 

Of course there will be some graphic and contradictory accounts (as you'd expect in any disaster), but 'what happened to my lad/dad/daughter/sister etc?' - I don't think the answers are there.

 

But... if one person, gets one more answer to a single question they had. It's something. *fingers crossed*

[gingerhulk]

After all these years of turmoil and anger, i don't think the family and people affect will get justice.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but the fact it has taken this long to get to this stage, the walls that have been placed in front of the family and spin that has been spouted over the years, I just don't think justice will prevail.

[devilsadvocate]

Didn't the truth come out about who was truly culpable on bloody Sunday, over 35 yrs after the event? Suppose all we can do is hope that it wont be another setback in the fight for justice!

[Acid]

Sadly I don't think so.

 

The media will select excerpts and sensationalise certain aspects, but the people who deserve to know (the friends and families) probably won't get the answers.

 

If I had my way... I'd make everybody read the Taylor report... it tells enough to explain how Liverpool fans were just like any other fans that day, and what happened could have happened to anybody... and still could again unless we all keep out wits about us, and refuse to accept crap from authorities (when the decisions they make are clearly crap ones).

 

I think about that day every time I go to a match with my son. I have a quick look around, and see the faces of people, and think what 'could' happen.

 

It still makes me angry to this day. Esp the FA actually, possibly more so than the police organisation (or lack of). They took advantage of fans hunger for games, treated them like cattle, and didn't give a flying f**k about best choice of venue or which end to place fans. And whilst stadiums are now much safer.... they still think it's OK to make Northerners travel to inconvenient locations, they still make a balls up of ticket allocations, and I hope to God they have their emergency planning in a better state now.

 

Sorry... it just pisses me off that much. I'll never forget their incompetence.

 

RIP96

 

Who do you support mate? I have asked you this before, but I forgot to look for the reply at the time.

[WaltonRed]

Man City

[xerxes]

The problem is that there is no conclusion to this, and I don’t think there ever will be. There can be an assumption of some sort of common goal, when there isn’t. Two organisations representing the families, around five hundred close family members, and as many different opinions and emotions.

 

I was there that day on the upper tier and know many touched by the tragedy. An unspoken dimension is that some want to forget now, and the annual ( at least) spotlight becomes no easier. A by-product of getting older is that you know more people who have been bereaved, and suffer bereavement personally. You learn to respect each person’s way of handling tragedy and loss.

 

The evidence that the 96 did not die in vain is a raft of amongst the most modern, safe stadia in the world in England – with not a single stadium related death since. That is quite a legacy.

 

Some aspects of Hillsborough have become distorted. The language can be raw and angry, those whom I know rarely speak like that. There is little thirst for revenge or retribution, just for an honest account, taking in the good and the bad .

 

As time passes contradictions grow. It is easier for all to take a considered view, but memories of what it was like in that era fade. There are now lawyers who might attend an enquiry who were not even at Junior School when the tragedy unfolded. Judgement becomes easier and more difficult simultaneously.

 

I wish peace to those affected, whatever that peace is.

[FanchesterCity]

Who do you support mate? I have asked you this before, but I forgot to look for the reply at the time.

 

As WaltonRed said... City. But there are days when it doesn't matter who you support. That was, and will remain one of them.

 

We all go to matches (I assume), we see dads and kids supporting their team, have a bit of banter with away fans - but you go home having won or lost.

 

The entire football world lost that day.

 

When you visit Anfield, and you see those names in the monument. They are the names of EVERY fan. I defy anybody to read it, and not imagine it being their own kid, or dad etc.

 

And as Xerses says, the older you get, the more it sinks in. I have to remind myself that a lot of fans on the internet will have been too young to remember it, and of those that are old enough, it does no harm to remember that we are ALL just fans of the game really. Blue / Red / Yellow whatever.

[boomer39]

well said, Fanchester... there but for the grace of god go i.

[LFC64]

Im not sure the 'truth' is even there to be found in the paperwork and statements. I suspect most of the paperwork was done in the immediate aftermath and 'tempered' before pen was put to paper. And any controversial accounts probably found their way to a shredder over the years.

 

Of course there will be some graphic and contradictory accounts (as you'd expect in any disaster), but 'what happened to my lad/dad/daughter/sister etc?' - I don't think the answers are there.

 

But... if one person, gets one more answer to a single question they had. It's something. *fingers crossed*

 

This is my concern too. That after all the hard work from so many people any damning evidence has either gone 'missing' or was not recorded in the first place. But I'm hoping my concerns are unfounded.

[Walton Park]

I am afraid we will never get justice. Ive got this horrible feeling. There is NO way they would want the truth to come out. Were gonna get stitched up again. Its going to be fucking horrible and will open up all wounds again. I am fucking dreading it.

[Steve]

The problem is that there is no conclusion to this, and I don’t think there ever will be. There can be an assumption of some sort of common goal, when there isn’t. Two organisations representing the families, around five hundred close family members, and as many different opinions and emotions.

 

.

 

I think you're right there, there's never been any clear definition of what 'justice' means. Some may well be satisfied/vindicated if the documents reveal it was a cover up and an apology is issued, but I'm sure there must be others who won't rest until Duckinfield is serving a life sentence.

[WaltonRed]

nor should they

 

people should be put on trial

 

it was a cover up, lets hope the papers show it

[GR10 LFC]

2 programmes next week, both called "Hillsborough: The Search For Truth". BBC1, Sunday 9th at 10.25pm and ITV, Monday 10th at 10.35pm.

[WaltonRed]

I cant watch anything on it, too sad, i'll try though

[MOGLET]

Getting the truth and getting justice are sadly two different things.

 

When the files are released, how much truth will they show? and how much will be hidden to protect the guilty?

 

Until those responsible are dealt with in a manner that constitutes actual justice, and the REAL truth is told, nobody will ever have anything close to what could be considered justice.

 

On top of that, what can be considered as justice now? after all this time.

 

Its a total miscarriage of justice that it has taken this long to get to the stage of only just getting this part of it to become reality.

 

 

Related to but aside to the main topic, if there were any justice in the world, cunt Mccuntzie and his staff at the shit rag would be flayed and then rolled in salt and left to the dogs as a side dish.

 

JFT96

[xerxes]

Where care is needed is that some use the term "the truth" as a synonym for what they think. Disasters by their very nature, and rarity, tend to involve a lot of thngs going wrong simultaneously.

 

I think that those who see that day in terms of blame are onto a loser. The phrase that "those who seek revenge had better be prepared to dig two graves" springs to mind.Those who seek understanding stand a better chance of some sort of settlement.

 

One of the paradoxes of our history is that our greatest glory years on the pitch in the eighties coincided with the sport's nadir off it. Taylor's observation of "A slum sport played in slum grounds" rings in my ears. The year of our greatest season in club history, 1983/84 was watched by an average of just 31,974 a game at Anfield. Twenty years earlier our title season was watched by 45,032.

 

The other paradox is that Hillsborough, a non hooligan related tragedy, drew the curtain on the hooligan era.

 

April, semi final weekend, a warm spring day, all have never been quite the same since.

 

I will finish with this thought. Reconciliation, forgiveness, understanding are all possible without forgetting. The danger is that without that, something much worse will follow, and that is a gradual fading memory of the unresolved.

[longtimered]

2 programmes next week, both called "Hillsborough: The Search For Truth". BBC1, Sunday 9th at 10.25pm and ITV, Monday 10th at 10.35pm.

 

Can you confirm the BBC time and date-I can see the ITV programme but not hte other channel.

[Paulie Dangerously]

It certainly won't say "police to blame, fans were faultless" but I hope that the major myths and lies are debunked.

 

Whether the families will be satisfied remains to be seen. Fingers crossed though

[Trumo]

Can you confirm the BBC time and date-I can see the ITV programme but not hte other channel.

 

BBC One website says it's only being shown in the North West and Yorkshire.

[Baresi]

Sun reporter Harry Arnold's Hillsborough headline regret

 

Harry Arnold said he did not agree with the Sun's headline

 

The Sun journalist who wrote a story alleging drunk Liverpool fans abused victims and police during the Hillsborough disaster said he was "aghast" when he saw the headline.

 

Reporter Harry Arnold told the BBC his story had been written in a "fair and balanced way" and the controversial claims had been "allegations".

 

He said it was editor Kelvin MacKenzie who wrote the headline "The Truth".

 

Official papers will be released on Wednesday, 23 years after the disaster.

 

The tragedy led to the deaths of 96 people, 95 on the day and one man who died in 1993, after four years in a persistent vegetative state.

 

Requests have been made by the BBC for a response or comment from Mr MacKenzie, but he has so far not responded.

 

'Can't say that'

 

In the programme, called Hillsborough: Searching for the Truth, Mr Arnold says: "On the Sun, Kelvin MacKenzie was the rather controversial editor at the time, he liked to write his own headlines.

 

"He wrote the headline 'The Truth', and the reason I know that is I was about to leave the newsroom when I saw him drawing up the front page.

 

Continue reading the main story

“

Start Quote

You don't argue with an editor like Kelvin MacKenzie”

End Quote

Harry Arnold

 

Former Sun reporter

"When I saw the headline 'The Truth' I was aghast, because that wasn't what I'd written.

 

"I'd never used the words the truth, "this is the truth about the Hillsborough Disaster" I'd merely written, I hoped and I still believe, in a balanced and fair way.

 

"So I said to Kelvin MacKenzie, "You can't say that".

 

"And he said 'Why not?' and I said 'because we don't know that it's the truth. This is a version of 'the truth'.

 

"And he brushed it aside and said 'Oh don't worry. I'm going to make it clear that this is what some people are saying'.

 

"And I walked away thinking, well I'm not happy with the situation.

 

"But the fact is reporters don't argue with an editor.

 

"And in particular, you don't argue with an editor like Kelvin MacKenzie."

 

A police officer who was on duty at Hillsborough when the events of 15 April 1989 unfolded told the programme he understood the anger of people in the ground at the time.

 

 

Many Liverpool fans lost family and friends in the stadium disaster The officer said he had been at the scene and the fans did not behave in ways described by The Sun's front page headline or strap-lines.

 

He said: "I didn't see any Liverpool fans urinating on a police officer, or any police officers, and I didn't see any Liverpool fans steal money, steal money from dead people or pick money up that had fallen out of people's pockets.

 

"I didn't see that. And it probably didn't happen."

 

On 15 April 1989, 95 Liverpool fans were crushed to death and hundreds more injured on the steel-fenced terraces of Sheffield Wednesday's stadium, which was hosting the FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest.

 

Thousands of documents

 

Senior officers responsible for policing the game, David Duckenfield and Bernard Murray, faced disciplinary proceedings and both left the force.

 

Mr Murray was cleared of two counts of manslaughter and the jury could not reach a verdict on Mr Duckenfield at a private prosecution at Leeds Crown Court in July 2000.

 

The documents relating to the Hillsborough disaster will be released at Liverpool's Anglican Cathedral on 12 September.

 

The government and police documents will be released in conjunction with a report from the Hillsborough Independent Panel.

 

It has examined hundreds of thousands of documents related to the disaster and has been chaired by the Bishop of Liverpool, the Right Reverend James Jones.

[The Golden Eel]

BBC One website says it's only being shown in the North West and Yorkshire.

 

My mate says the BBC programme is on Ch 957. I can't confirm that at the minute but that's what he told me.

[longtimered]

My mate says the BBC programme is on Ch 957. I can't confirm that at the minute but that's what he told me.

 

Its actually 956 or 958.BBC Northwest or BBC Yorshire.Thanks for pointing me in right direction.