Summer 2011

[Joe Le Taxi]

That Barca formation sounds ace.

[Gym Beglin]

Thought this was interesting from the Express seeing as we're on about formations :

 

Gunners chairman Peter Hill-Wood claimed Fabregas...

 

I read this earlier as well, but it seemed like such an odd story considering there has been no firm bid for Fabregas yet, or may never be, that Guardiola would go on record to say how he'd fit him in.

 

If they DID do a 3-4-3, then Alves would not be one of the defenders, it would have to be Puyol, Pique and Abidal, with Alves deployed on the right wing-back role.

 

Tactics are massive, but seldom discussed properly in this country, Andy Grey's comical take on things for Sky was awful guess work based on his own limited knowledge of how the game works at the top level these days.

 

But, for me, the loss of Benitez set us back massively at the time because he got the best out of the players with his tactical ideas. Going back to the dark ages with Hodgson was appalling, who basically set us out like Fulham, which just didn't transfer to a club like us at all.

And, thankfully, Kenny came in and my big fear was that he'd also go with the old school, but he surprised me by being very forward thinking and adventurous with his tactics.

But there's certainly no way a flat midfield two of Lucas and Spearing would serve us well next season, it's definitely a weak spot that would get exploited sooner or later. Hence the addition of Henderson and our continued quest for Adam, to allow us to use three in the middle, along with Gerrard and Meireles as options.

 

As I said before, the current Argentina squad is a salient lesson in how much tactics matter to a top team. How can you have the likes of Di Maria, Tevez, Aguero, Messi in the same team and labour like they did?

[shaunstrudwick]

That Barca formation sounds ace.

 

agreed

[Randy Marsh]

If they're not budging on £20m for Downing we need to walk away. I am sorry but for that kind of money we can get twice as good a player. That level of fee for him at his age is ridiculous and to me would be a total waste of money. Villa would be shafting us big time.

[Gym Beglin]

Sky Sports BREAKING NEWS banner....

 

Liverpool make £15m bid for Stewart Downing.

 

 

 

Exclusive fail.

[Red Banjo]

Stewart who?

 

Is he any good?

[Gym Beglin]

If they're not budging on £20m for Downing we need to walk away. I am sorry but for that kind of money we can get twice as good a player. That level of fee for him at his age is ridiculous and to me would be a total waste of money. Villa would be shafting us big time.

 

Don't agree.

If he was black and playing for Bordeaux then people would be creaming about him and saying he's a big talent.

 

I think it represents good value. He's a very good pro by all accounts, Gareth Southgate was singing his praises as his former manager and teammate earlier on SSN (been seeing a lot of it today, been trapped in a Holiday Inn all day). I've heard the same thing from a few other places now, he's not a piss head, he's not a flashy cunt, he's not a greedy cunt, and he's a team-player as opposed to a player driven by ego, and likely wouldn't be motivated by a massive contract.

 

You're going to have to re-assess what you want from a winger I think. Assists and a threat to the full back is all I want, goals are a bonus. Ashley Young isn't prolific if you take away the pens.

I just think £20m represents a player who is guaranteed to do an excellent job for us, as opposed to taking a couple of gambles on £10m wingers from the continent who may or may not work, and who may or may not like the treatment dished out by defenders here.

[castle_red]

If they're not budging on £20m for Downing we need to walk away. I am sorry but for that kind of money we can get twice as good a player. That level of fee for him at his age is ridiculous and to me would be a total waste of money. Villa would be shafting us big time.

 

Yep, £20m for a decent 26 year old does not sound like the supposed Henry/Comolli strategy. I think we're massively overkilling the whole buying English thing as well. Our squad easily meets the home grown quotas already. Carroll and Henderson you can completely understand because of their age and big potential, but Stewart Downing surely isn't going to be transformed into Kenny's new John Barnes? We can get better and younger for that kind of money.

[Randy Marsh]

Don't agree.

If he was black and playing for Bordeaux then people would be creaming about him and saying he's a big talent.

 

I think it represents good value. He's a very good pro by all accounts, Gareth Southgate was singing his praises as his former manager and teammate earlier on SSN (been seeing a lot of it today, been trapped in a Holiday Inn all day). I've heard the same thing from a few other places now, he's not a piss head, he's not a flashy cunt, he's not a greedy cunt, and he's a team-player as opposed to a player driven by ego, and likely wouldn't be motivated by a massive contract.

 

You're going to have to re-assess what you want from a winger I think. Assists and a threat to the full back is all I want, goals are a bonus. Ashley Young isn't prolific if you take away the pens.

I just think £20m represents a player who is guaranteed to do an excellent job for us, as opposed to taking a couple of gambles on £10m wingers from the continent who may or may not work, and who may or may not like the treatment dished out by defenders here.

 

I have to disagree with that mate. Downing has never really jumped out at me. He's struck me as being average for most of his career. He has struggled to make any kind of inroad in to a poor national side in a position which has proved troublesome for years and years. He is 27, probably at or near the peak of his talents, and still hardly makes waves at a very poor Aston Villa side. £20m is absolutely ridiculous money for him. He may improve us and I'm not saying he is a bad player, I just think that for that kind of money we could do so so much better. I'd rather see us throw that kind of money at the blueshite for Baines or put it towards a deal to bring in Mata than spend it on him.

[Gibberer]

He is better than Ashley Young

[Gym Beglin]

It's not a case of buying English just because they're English though, how many players with the reputation of Downing, abroad, would opt to come to us at the moment?

 

It's our reputation in England that still makes us a big deal for English targets, so I'd be careful about dismissing the England thing simply as some sort of strategy for the future.

A Downing equivalent abroad, someone like Guardado, would be hard pushed to see us as a step-up.

[Dan]

I have to disagree with that mate. Downing has never really jumped out at me. He's struck me as being average for most of his career. He has struggled to make any kind of inroad in to a poor national side in a position which has proved troublesome for years and years. He is 27, probably at or near the peak of his talents, and still hardly makes waves at a very poor Aston Villa side. £20m is absolutely ridiculous money for him. He may improve us and I'm not saying he is a bad player, I just think that for that kind of money we could do so so much better. I'd rather see us throw that kind of money at the blueshite for Baines or put it towards a deal to bring in Mata than spend it on him.

 

we might get them all yet..

[Iantn]

We can get better and younger for that kind of money.

 

You say that but that's a pure stab in the dark as you've no idea how we want Downing to play or the qualities we've identified in him that we are looking for.

 

In terms of natural talent and technique we could get more for our money but in terms of how much they'll offer us in the up coming season without knowing the plans for him it really is impossible to say.

[Gym Beglin]

I have to disagree with that mate. Downing has never really jumped out at me. He's struck me as being average for most of his career. He has struggled to make any kind of inroad in to a poor national side in a position which has proved troublesome for years and years. He is 27, probably at or near the peak of his talents, and still hardly makes waves at a very poor Aston Villa side. £20m is absolutely ridiculous money for him. He may improve us and I'm not saying he is a bad player, I just think that for that kind of money we could do so so much better. I'd rather see us throw that kind of money at the blueshite for Baines or put it towards a deal to bring in Mata than spend it on him.

 

I wouldn't use success at international level as a yard-stick for a top club player, especially not success for England.

John Barnes hardly set the world on fire for England either.

 

Downing has assists galore, and is always a headache for defenders. It's a good comodity.

[Joe Le Taxi]

NN is drowning kids as we speak...

[Red Banjo]

Albrighton would be better value

[castle_red]

It's not a case of buying English just because they're English though, how many players with the reputation of Downing, abroad, would opt to come to us at the moment?

 

It's our reputation in England that still makes us a big deal for English targets, so I'd be careful about dismissing the England thing simply as some sort of strategy for the future.

A Downing equivalent abroad, someone like Guardado, would be hard pushed to see us as a step-up.

 

Absolutely loads. It all depends what club they are at, have they got a big contract/CL footy next year? Not all of them have, and we're as big a draw as any team not in the Champs.

[Iantn]

Albrighton would be better value

 

For the same fee or you reckon we'd get him cheaper?

[castle_red]

You say that but that's a pure stab in the dark as you've no idea how we want Downing to play or the qualities we've identified in him that we are looking for.

 

In terms of natural talent and technique we could get more for our money but in terms of how much they'll offer us in the up coming season without knowing the plans for him it really is impossible to say.

 

It is indeed a stab in the dark - in the transfer speculation thread, what was I thinking?!

 

Completely agree, it's always impossible to say for certain how different additions will change the team's fortunes.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

NN is drowning kids as we speak...

 

I'm making a 'I moderately disapprove of signing Downing for an inflated fee' banner, actually. It's double sided, with 'We should have got Mata or Turan' on the reverse, for when I'm feeling particularly saucy.

[Joe Le Taxi]

I'm making a 'I moderately disapprove of signing Downing for an inflated fee' banner, actually. It's double sided, with 'We should have got Mata or Turan' on the reverse.

 

Haha I'm in the same boat. Downing is awful.

 

I saw him play live a few times for England and I was shocked at how lazy he was off the ball. With the ball yes he runs but he is no team player in my opinion.

 

It could have just been those games I suppose but I am really not looking forward to this signing.

 

The bit that pisses me off the most is that he is much better than what we already have!

[Red Banjo]

For the same fee or you reckon we'd get him cheaper?

 

Way cheaper. Considering he's more or less still 'potential' - i think he'll go on to become a far better player. And considering Villa's stance on Downing, we'd be better telling them to stick £20m up their arses. Offer half that for Albrighton and use the rest (assuming there's more) to go after another target.

 

English player - check

 

Potentially ace - check

 

Under 22 - check

 

Won't ask for sky high wages - check

 

No brainer for me. This is probably why i work in media installations, as opposed to football management tho

[MLB]

Villa are cheeky bastards. I'd offer them £14 million + N'Gog at the very most.

[Eljeficito]

I think he'll be a good, steady player for us who'll give his all and provide decent service to the forwards. Agree the 20million is probably 7million or so too much but you pay the english premium in a massively inflated market, but by all accounts he's Kenny's first choice at this point in time and it looks like we'll get him. I don't neccesarily agree with the notion hes been merely average his entire career also. He went stale in his last 2 years at boro, but was hugely rated before then and had a good season last year for villa after the injury of his first. I think he'll be a good player for us

[Randy Marsh]

The market is insane when Stewart Downing is being labelled as a £20m player. There is simply no justification for that kind of fee, not talent, career achievements to date, age or potential sell on value. Downing at up to £10m I could accept. £20m is insane money. Anyone who rates him in that bracket must have their red tinted goggles permanently welded to their head. Villa are taking the fucking piss and we shouldn't let them do so. We are going to get bummed senseless on every deal if people see us paying that kind of money for Downing.