Jamie Carragher and the tits who think he has too much power.

[JohnnyH]

Its not though. The club love it because daytrippers buy stuff at the ground, shirts for friends, programmes, loads of stuff, merch in general.

 

People like me, walk there and back and i might spend £3 on a programme and thats it.

 

.

 

The internet has greatly reduced that though. The once a year fan will try and get his merch at the club shop, just to say he has, but had he not got it there, he would have just got it online anyway or at official stores in other countries or sports shops where you can buy everything now anyway. Around teh corner from me are 3 sports shops and you can get all jerseys, training gear and pemcil cases you want.

 

As someone else said, it's the pubs, hotels and vendors around the ground that benefit most from non regular day trippers.

 

Anyway, the majority in the ground are still locals, and some of the attendences this year and last year have completely ended the argument about locals not been able to go the game due to day trippers. Everyone picks and choses. Although a once a year fan going to the Manc game, or Chelsea, or whatever always drives me nuts, no matter where they are from.

 

Bloody locals ruining our international club (especially for Ant)

[Best Believe It]

Let's just end the OOT debate once and for all and move the club to Milton Keynes. It'd mean Remmie might get to more games, for one thing.

[Whelan]

Replace Niggaz with Scousers and I think this sums things up for me!

 

Knock this 'Scouse' shite on the head. I'd rather a day tripper from US of A than some of the 'Scouse' pricks evident at some matches.

 

I may be missing the point. But I hate all this shite, it is not too far from implying someone is a better fan because of where they are from, more than what they do.

 

[YOUTUBE]AzFTLKWvfE0[/YOUTUBE]

[TheResonator]

I don't agree with antywa's thoughts on this particular part of the Carra thing but those supporters do exist, more so these days.

 

I think there's a big difference between OOTs feeling marginalized by the local fans, and actively disliking or attacking a player because he's local.

 

Nevertheless, if there are OOT fans like that who mock or denigrate the city or the people, it is beyond stupid. It never occurred to me that people like that would exist because I haven't run across them and it's so far removed from my own ethos that, quite frankly, I can't comprehend it. I mean, if you were an out of towner that hated scousers, why on earth would you choose to support Liverpool?

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

The Kop and Anfield Rd End ( away section included ) should be made up only of people born within the sound of the bell's of St Georges, Everton.

Most of the rest by farmers boys from the outskirts and 500 for Thomas Cook.

Ootlaw the rest.

[Royal Family]

Today!

 

PROOF that King Kenny was behind the VICIOUS conspiracy to PURGE Liverpool of its beloved manager, Saint Rafael-the-Great of Benitez. Here he SHAME-FACEDLY chats with MURDEROUS chief conspirator, James "Fawkes" Carragher, even as they bask in the glorious SPANISH SUNSHINE provided by the MARTYR.

[Liverpool lad]

Bollocks,

 

It's okay for the vice captain to refer to travelling supporters as "fuckin pricks"

 

Was it aimed at all of them?

 

How would anyone have any proof Ant and if they did, why would it be released into the public domain?

 

Consider the following:

 

1) Carra's family have been quoted by many people as being strongly and vocally anti Rafa at games. Either they came to this impression with no input from Jamie, or they came to this impression with input from Jamie. Which do you feel is more likely?

 

2) Carra co-wrote his autobiography with Chris Bascombe. Chris Bascombe was extremely critical of Rafa in the press last season, particularly with regards to his relationship with the players. Bascombe may have made these stories up, or got it from another player. Or he may have got it from Carra.

 

3) Carra leaked an anecdote about a personal meeting with Rafa Benitez to the owner of a prominent Liverpool message board. He may have done this in passing, or he may have done this knowing full well that it would end up in the public domain and reflect badly on Rafa.

 

Not of these are "cast iron proof", but they are all highly co-incidental and if he actually was involved are all blatant attempts to undermine the previous manager.

 

This is that worst, most speculative hyperbole that TheResonator was talking about.

 

 

I think it takes more than just Jamie Carragher to oust a manager, he must have annoyed others as well

[dirty_sanchez]

I think it takes more than just Jamie Carragher to oust a manager, he must have annoyed others as well

 

I think you need to read the rest of the thread. I've explicitly said that it was dumb to think that Carra would be solely responsible. I personally think he did play a part in it though, along with others. I have no evidence to back this up, I just looked at all of the facts and rumours without sentimentality, blinkers or rose tinted spectacles and came to my own conclusions.

[Liverpool lad]

I think you need to read the rest of the thread. I've explicitly said that it was dumb to think that Carra would be solely responsible. I personally think he did play a part in it though, along with others. I have no evidence to back this up, I just looked at all of the facts and rumours without sentimentality, blinkers or rose tinted spectacles and came to my own conclusions.

 

I read the first couple of pages then I lost the will to live. Of course he must of had some sort of say in it, he is a senior member of the squad.

[Whelan]

I read the first couple of pages then I lost the will to live. Of course he must of had some sort of say in it, he is a senior member of the squad.

 

I think you are spot on. And regardless of how I felt about Rafa, it makes common sense.

 

I think the problem is when that input becomes influence, and in the case of Hodgson, contrary to the majority view. I can see what people are 'possibly' annoyed over i.e. Carragher's (and Gerrards) personal preference over the 'good' of the team. But I am far from convinced that this is the case.

 

I will say that Carraghers comments on 'local' players and 'English' managers, has probably not helped his cause.

[Liverpool lad]

I think you are spot on. And regardless of how I felt about Rafa, it makes common sense.

 

I think the problem is when that input becomes influence, and in the case of Hodgson, contrary to the majority view. I can see what people are 'possibly' annoyed over i.e. Carragher's (and Gerrards) personal preference over the 'good' of the team. But I am far from convinced that this is the case.

 

I will say that Carraghers comments on 'local' players and 'English' managers, has probably not helped his cause.

 

Good post, there are a lot of unknowns and half truths that some self-appointed ITK's have decided to run with. The truth is that very few people know what went on.

[ritchie]

I think you are spot on. And regardless of how I felt about Rafa, it makes common sense.

 

I think the problem is when that input becomes influence, and in the case of Hodgson, contrary to the majority view. I can see what people are 'possibly' annoyed over i.e. Carragher's (and Gerrards) personal preference over the 'good' of the team. But I am far from convinced that this is the case.

 

I will say that Carraghers comments on 'local' players and 'English' managers, has probably not helped his cause.

 

As i've said a few times in the thread, whatever happened last season happened, but it's the fact that Carragher is going out of his way to back Hodgson now. It's as if he's the only man (other than maybe Hodgson's shit signings) that wants the fella here.

 

It's an issue because the spirit in the team is non existent.

 

Get a capable manager in to unite the dressing room and all this shit goes away.

[goatboy59]

Get a capable manager in to unite the dressing room and all this shit goes away.

 

Promise?

[WaltonRed]

Whelan, where did I say scousers were better because I never?

[ritchie]

Promise?

 

Of course it does. If we've got a proper manager, a winning team and a happy dressing room then the past is the past and the club can move forward on the pitch, as NESV try to move the club forward again off it.

 

At the moment we've got a useless manager, a losing team and an unhappy dressing room, with the danger of losing top players as a result. We aren't moving forward on the pitch.

[Whelan]

Whelan, where did I say scousers were better because I never?

 

You never! Sorry didn't mean that, I meant in general to the argument about Liverpool being a Scouse club. As I say it is a dangerous path to go down, and one that I am really uncomfortable with.

 

To me the question is more pertinent if you argue for Supporters against Fans, which I think was the problem under the parasites.

 

I go home and away, but I the one match I refuse to go to is Blackburn away, I absolutely detest the game and it is primarily because of the Scouse element, that turns up for this match in particular.

[WaltonRed]

You never! Sorry didn't mean that, I meant in general to the argument about Liverpool being a Scouse club. As I say it is a dangerous path to go down, and one that I am really uncomfortable with.

 

To me the question is more pertinent if you argue for Supporters against Fans, which I think was the problem under the parasites.

 

I go home and away, but I the one match I refuse to go to is Blackburn away, I absolutely detest the game and it is primarily because of the Scouse element, that turns up for this match in particular.

 

It is a Scouse club though because its in Liverpool. Thats a fact you cant get away from.

 

I get what you mean on supporters over 'fans'

 

I hate the element your on about too I just think a lot of good locals get had off and to be fair thats down to some of the element you mean as well as OOT 'fans' on a thomas cook day trip.

 

Thats why I'd love to see the season ticket list sorted because a lot more locals would go and increased capacity of a new ground would see both sets catered for which benefits the club two fold.

[goatboy59]

Bookmarked.

[Paul]

This whole agenda epitomises the rapid decline of our collective class as fans, for me. It's also the reason why I don't want to see Kenny, my only hero in adult life, get so much as a ten minute sniff of a care-taking role, should Roy go - never mind get the job permanently. We all know full well that he'd get called all sorts of shite whenever he said or did something even vaguely outside the views of the various gobshites that make up a significant minority of our support now - the sort who call our current manager a cunt and mock and abuse him for his looks, age or accent.

 

You do not have to like or rate someone to respect the fact that they have a role at Liverpool Football Club and are therefore (extremes of behaviour excepted) deserving of our respect and support.

[Guest PurpleNose]

Dalglish would not get the same abuse Hodgson gets. Even if results were the same (which I seriously doubt they would be).

 

We'd actually play football, he'd conduct himself brilliantly in the media, but most importantly, he's an absolute legend. Even the most abusive twats that follow us would recognise as much.

[Trucker Paddy]

Good Post Ant, I myself cant get my head around people criticizing a player who has giving 14 years of 1st team service, played on 1 leg in Istanbul, would do anything for the club, is never injured and people are giving him shit and begrudging him a contract, no doubt same people think Agger is worth his £4m a year contract. Not only that the work Carragher does for the local community with the 23 Foundation also, some serious ungrateful idiots out there

[MLB]

Dalglish would not get the same abuse Hodgson gets. Even if results were the same (which I seriously doubt they would be).

 

We'd actually play football, he'd conduct himself brilliantly in the media, but most importantly, he's an absolute legend. Even the most abusive twats that follow us would recognise as much.

 

 

Agreed.

[Cardie]

This whole agenda epitomises the rapid decline of our collective class as fans, for me. It's also the reason why I don't want to see Kenny, my only hero in adult life, get so much as a ten minute sniff of a care-taking role, should Roy go - never mind get the job permanently. We all know full well that he'd get called all sorts of shite whenever he said or did something even vaguely outside the views of the various gobshites that make up a significant minority of our support now - the sort who call our current manager a cunt and mock and abuse him for his looks, age or accent.

 

You do not have to like or rate someone to respect the fact that they have a role at Liverpool Football Club and are therefore (extremes of behaviour excepted) deserving of our respect and support.

 

This 'rapid decline' has been happening for years and years, the only difference is everyones voice can be heard by a wider audience thanks to the Internet.

 

Houllier was probably the first manager to suffer fully at the hands of the Internet (called a cancer amongst other lovely names) but let's not pretend that Evans and Souness weren't subject to abuse in the pubs, schools and workplaces pre-mainstream web access.

 

The trail only stops at Souness because of the success of Dalglish, Fagan, Paisley and Shankly but you can guarantee that even then there were points where fuelled up Liverpool supporters aimed their frustrations at the manager.

[vonk]

Good post, there are a lot of unknowns and half truths that some self-appointed ITK's have decided to run with. The truth is that very few people know what went on.

 

This. Too many so called ITKs who know fuck all.

[Anubis]