Has Lucas improved enough to warrant him being a first team regular?

[Scousa Tomo]

Silverlining and Code72 will be here to admit they were wrong about Lucas at any moment.

 

Yeah I think Rafas dropping them off.

 

 

Lucas would walk into any team in the league if not europe at the moment.

[Spy Bee]

He's an excellent playuer now. I don't think you can take him out of the team.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

This Lucas must be a clone can pass and tackle the real one is locked in a dark room somewhere

Or - just a thought, like - this is the real Lucas and the people who gave a young lad settling into a new country loads of grief for not being a ready-made replacement for Gerrard, Alonso or Mascherano were in some way (ooh, what's the word?) wrong.

[Jairzinho]

This Lucas must be a clone can pass and tackle the real one is locked in a dark room somewhere

 

Quack quack.

[TheHitman]

Future Liverpool captain, he took a hell of stick in his early days and has shown he is made of the right stuff.

 

An excellent performance from Lucas yesterday and is now dare I say becoming one of the senior pros in the team talking to the younger players and even giving out the odd rollicking.

[El Rojo]

Future Liverpool captain, he took a hell of stick in his early days and has shown he is made of the right stuff.

 

An excellent performance from Lucas yesterday and is now dare I say becoming one of the senior pros in the team talking to the younger players and even giving out the odd rollicking.

 

He ran 30 or 40 yards on a couple of occasions yesterday to get in the referee's face over bad decisions too.

[DJLJ]

Future Liverpool captain, he took a hell of stick in his early days and has shown he is made of the right stuff.

 

An excellent performance from Lucas yesterday and is now dare I say becoming one of the senior pros in the team talking to the younger players and even giving out the odd rollicking.

 

He wont be. That'll go to Pepe when Stevie retires and Pepe only being 28, we'll have the captaincy sorted for the next decade.

 

Agree though he had a very good game yesterday.

[Strontium]

11 months ago, this was actually a thread on here:

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/95363-polsen-vs-lucas-who-should-first-team.html

 

Random post:

 

Poulsen is a better passer and doesn't take prisoners - and spots forward passes. Lucas hasn't got any of that in his locker. Also, Poulsen shapes up to receive the ball more/better.

[El Rojo]

11 months ago, this was actually a thread on here:

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/95363-polsen-vs-lucas-who-should-first-team.html

 

Random post:

 

ayiic = Stevie Wonder or Poulsen's granny.

[LFC 6 Times]

He's so reliable, he will always be stigmatised by the simple fans who scaoegoated him as an average player. He just bosses midfields every week now, its now at the stage where I expect him to do it, what's most impressive about the lad is he plays at his very best against the big sides, his tackling is best in the league as stats will testify, his useage of the ball has improved vastly, he no longer hesitates with the ball. I'd love the lad just to work on his shooting and chip in with a few goals, which may see him win over the most stubborn fools.

[The Dude Abides]

He beat Kevin Davies in the air several times yesterday.

 

That's one of his best qualities actually, he's an amazingly good defensive headerer of the ball, he doesn't just win it, he finds a team-mate almost every time.

 

Next step for him now is to start weighing in with a couple of goals.

 

Have to laugh at the feigned shock and surprise from some people too "oh Lucas can suddenly pass and tackle" no, you were just blind.

[BestRed69]

I voted 'Yes'.

[Karl_b]

He's become a fantastic and very important player but let's not state that people who were slating him a couple of years ago were 'blind', 'stupid' or other such remark. The truth is, as almost always, somewhere between the two polarising opinions.

 

When he first joined we had immense quality in the centre of the park and he was slated for not being as good as Gerrard, Mascherano or Alonso, which he wasn't. Now a lot of the criticism was way over the top, he was a young kid settling into a new club in a foreign country and had a lot of pressure on him. The decline of the club over the past couple of years and the sales of the senior players in his position meant that he may have been promoted to first choice sooner than we anticipated and his deficiencies were highlighted more than may have been the case had we kept hold of those players and had Lucas been used more sporadically. When he came in to the team he was limited but showed odd glimpses of potential but there have been plenty of times when we needed more than just potential over the past few years.

 

On the other side I doubt that he would have become the player he has without being thrown in and given the trust of successive managers.

 

Last year he was brilliant and hopefully now he can raise his game another step and become one of the finest players in his position. I also think he's a potential captain, if it was given to Pepe upon Gerrard and Carra's retirements then I'd think that fair enough but I'd rather it be given to an outfield player particularly in Lucas' developing role as an organiser and dictator in the centre of the park.

[piscinin]

He's become a fantastic and very important player but let's not state that people who were slating him a couple of years ago were 'blind', 'stupid' or other such remark. The truth is, as almost always, somewhere between the two polarising opinions.

 

No, let's. A liverpool player with obvious quality was almost hounded out of the club by blind, ignorant and stupid people. Garnish it however you want, but that's a facht.

[Guest TK-421]

Is right piscinin lad.

[Karl_b]

No, let's. A liverpool player with obvious quality was almost hounded out of the club by blind, ignorant and stupid people. Garnish it however you want, but that's a facht.

 

I like to think I've always been pro-Lucas but to state that he's always had 'obvious quality' is over-stating the mark I reckon. He had potential but not quality and people were, rightly, wrongly or overly excessively, claiming that at certain times we needed more than what he was offering.

 

I was trying to temper the mood and find a line between the two sides, arguing over shit like this (I'm not saying that's what we're doing by the way) makes me a sad panda when there's so much optimism around the club.

[Spy Bee]

He's still only 24, we've got ten years of his bossness left.

[piscinin]

I like to think I've always been pro-Lucas but to state that he's always had 'obvious quality' is over-stating the mark I reckon. He had potential but not quality and people were, rightly, wrongly or overly excessively, claiming that at certain times we needed more than what he was offering.

 

I was trying to temper the mood and find a line between the two sides, arguing over shit like this (I'm not saying that's what we're doing by the way) makes me a sad panda when there's so much optimism around the club.

 

You extend a courtesy, not extended to the player, nor to anyone who had the audacity to suggest, for example, that he could tackle, he just did it without going to ground, like wot a lot of doze faggy foreigners do.

 

You obviously weren't called a 'stupid cunt', daily, for arguing his case. Fuck 'em, I say.

[Karl_b]

You extend a courtesy, not extended to the player, nor to anyone who had the audacity to suggest, for example, that he could tackle, he just did it without going to ground, like wot a lot of doze faggy foreigners do.

 

You obviously weren't called a 'stupid cunt', daily, for arguing his case. Fuck 'em, I say.

 

It just strikes me as 'I knew better than you' and it's no better than those that were slating him early on. I'm saying that there was some justification for people's opinions about him, even if other's think they were prematurely formed.

 

If we all just stand at opposite sides shouting at each other we'll never get anywhere, people are far too happy to just call each other idiots and cunts and then keep going at each other when they reply in kind.

[Paul]

Weird to see the date on the opening post of this thread as I said to various of the TLW lads at the match on Saturday that I think he's unrecognisable from the player he was 18 months or so ago. When this thread was started, I didn't rate him at all, despite the fact that he'd had a few much improved performances, especially in big games. However, that level of performance is now the norm rather than the exception and if he carries on playing like this, he's going to go way beyond being merely worthy of his place (which is emphatically the case now). He was magnificent on Saturday and long may it continue.

[TheResonator]

It just strikes me as 'I knew better than you' and it's no better than those that were slating him early on. I'm saying that there was some justification for people's opinions about him, even if other's think they were prematurely formed.

 

If we all just stand at opposite sides shouting at each other we'll never get anywhere, people are far too happy to just call each other idiots and cunts and then keep going at each other when they reply in kind.

 

Piscinin's right though, it's not somewhere in the middle. There were people saying he was shit, calling him a cunt, using him as a stick to beat Benitez with etc. etc. and all about a young lad who had to move to a new country and try to fill the boots of one of the best CMs in world football. There is no issue with saying you don't rate someone but most of the shit talked about Lucas far, far outweighed the positive comments in both consistency and vehemence.

 

There were people back then who did stick their necks out and defend him like TK and Piscinin, and having been ridiculed by people who were - basically - football critics rather than football supporters, it doesn't quite feel like justice to just go 'ahh the truth is somewhere in the middle!'

 

It's the same when those people who were really abusive of him now try and account for his improvements by using any excuse but their own ignorance. I heard a commentator on Saturday say that the play was now 'opened up in front of him in a way it wasn't under Rafa.' In fact, although Lucas has improved over the last season, he was already blossoming into a quality centre mid in 2009-10, when he was probably one of the best three players in the team.

 

Unfortunately, it's been the same story for players like Spearing, Insua, and even to some degree Carroll and Henderson, who are all youngsters but have - or had - been written off as Liverpool players (in some quarters) before they've barely kicked a ball. Some of them, like Insua, never make the grade. But Spearing has always given absolutely everything on the pitch and he should be supported for that rather than being insulted for his shortcomings.

 

It doesn't improve things to just let people lay into youngsters, some of whom desperately need support and encouragement, and to let it pass and then - afterwards - legitimize their opinions. It should be shown up for the fucking stupidity that it is. Which is why it's always nice to see threads like this pop up as a reminder of some of the bollocks being chatted by the usual suspects who don't understand football in the slightest.

[Karl_b]

In general I agree with what you and Piscinin are saying but it's tribalism and I fucking hate it and how much this place stinks because of it. I was right, you were wrong, blah blah blah.

 

Some of the praise for Lucas was equally over the top; Kuyt, Speo, Carra, etc have all produced similar discussions/reactions. I also said it was somewhere in the middle, as opposed to slap bang in the middle where they were both equally right.

[piscinin]

It just strikes me as 'I knew better than you' and it's no better than those that were slating him early on. I'm saying that there was some justification for people's opinions about him, even if other's think they were prematurely formed.

 

If we all just stand at opposite sides shouting at each other we'll never get anywhere, people are far too happy to just call each other idiots and cunts and then keep going at each other when they reply in kind.

 

You make it sound like there was a reasoned discussion about relative merits. It was a shameful episode that deeply effected a young kid.

 

Anyhow, no point raking over the coals. And kudos for being a bigger man than I.

[Karl_b]

You make it sound like there was a reasoned discussion about relative merits. It was a shameful episode that deeply effected a young kid.

 

Anyhow, no point raking over the coals. And kudos for being a bigger man than I.

 

Fair enough, let's move on.

 

On the point I've highlighted, did it really? I rarely get to the game so I'd be interested to know if anything spilled out from the terraces that affected his performances? He doesn't strike me as a player that has ever let a section of our supporters slating him get to him, in fact I think it's spurred him on to be a better player, to prove people wrong. Sure, some of what was said on here and elsewhere was uncalled for but unless he trawls the forums, how would he know?

[piscinin]

Fair enough, let's move on.

 

On the point I've highlighted, did it really? I rarely get to the game so I'd be interested to know if anything spilled out from the terraces that affected his performances? He doesn't strike me as a player that has ever let a section of our supporters slating him get to him, in fact I think it's spurred him on to be a better player, to prove people wrong. Sure, some of what was said on here and elsewhere was uncalled for but unless he trawls the forums, how would he know?

 

Forget his performances; I'm talking about his life, his outlook, his self-esteem, his view of "supporters". . .

 

As you say, let's move on.