OFFICIAL STATEMENT FROM "THE SONS OF SHANKLY"

[Dirk]

Match of the Day didn't give it a single mention, the bastards. This is going to be an uphill struggle.

 

The greatest struggle isn't the battle with the media, it's with sections of our own fans. It's maddening that people appear to be excusing the fact that they don't want to protest by focusing on Rafa. The two issues are entirely separate. You only had to read the match thread to get the feeling that there are people who won't protest or don't want to protest because they want Rafa gone. What sort of chance does the football club have when it's patronised by so many people with such an attitude? If Rafa needs to go, he needs to go, but Gillett and Hicks need to be gone too, even more so.

[Cath]

The greatest struggle isn't the battle with the media, it's with sections of our own fans. It's maddening that people appear to be excusing the fact that they don't want to protest by focusing on Rafa. The two issues are entirely separate. You only had to read the match thread to get the feeling that there are people who won't protests or don't want to protest because they want Rafa gone. What sort of chance does the football club have when it's patronised by so many people with such an attitude? If Rafa needs to go, he needs to go, but Gillett and Hicks need to be gone too, even more so.

 

Spot on. But how do we talk to these fans? The only gatherings we have are internet forums and pubs around L4 at match time. The folk you're talking about never appear in either. They are not a homogeneous group. Even the ones I see in town before games seem to be the same faces who've traveled from far and make a weekend of it. The fans in hotel bars don't seem like daytrippers. Where do we find them?

[Paul]

The greatest struggle isn't the battle with the media, it's with sections of our own fans. It's maddening that people appear to be excusing the fact that they don't want to protest by focusing on Rafa. The two issues are entirely separate. You only had to read the match thread to get the feeling that there are people who won't protest or don't want to protest because they want Rafa gone. What sort of chance does the football club have when it's patronised by so many people with such an attitude? If Rafa needs to go, he needs to go, but Gillett and Hicks need to be gone too, even more so.

 

I disagree. I think they're both profoundly worrying for our immediate and long-term future.

 

I do agree that everyone needs to get on board with the protest against The Twats, though.

[Dirk]

Spot on. But how do we talk to these fans? The only gatherings we have are internet forums and pubs around L4 at match time. The folk you're talking about never appear in either. They are not a homogeneous group. Even the ones I see in town before games seem to be the same faces who've traveled from far and make a weekend of it. The fans in hotel bars don't seem like daytrippers. Where do we find them?

 

It's difficult but I believe it can be done. I think that having too many groups will confuse the issue and eventually be counterproductive, LFCSN, RTK, Sons of Shankly etcetera. We need unity of purpose, of cause and of identity. You only have to read some of the sniping that goes on between forums to see that humans tend to identify themselves by tenuous groups. Experiments have shown that people will form groups on the basis of seemingly trivial aspects such as the colour of shirt they are wearing, colour of hair and that they are prepared to discriminate on the basis of these groups. The creation of too many groups will, in my opinion, dilute the cause and potentially disrupt any unity of purpose.

 

I think we need to focus ourselves here, if any group becomes too militant it will alienate the vast majority of fans. We need to appeal to as many fans as possible. If a fan disagrees with the aims of the cause, ask them why but I think it's pejorative to invite them to meet you for a discussion as it can be perceived as confrontational and aggressive and, if this it to work, we need to shy away from that sort of thing. By all means shout and sing passionately, work with gusto and fervour but we need to appeal to as many as possible, the vast majority will shy away from any form of aggression and, like any group, people perceive its aims to be represented by the actions of its leaders. It is absolutely vital that people can relate to any protest movement on both an emotional and an intellectual level.

 

The best way to disseminate this message is to utilise as many media formats as possible. Does anybody associated with the group have radio contacts? The same goes for newspaper contacts. What is being done to create a website? According to figures at Nielsen-netratings, 63.8% of people in the UK have net usage as of last year. Most football fans don't go on football forum sites. Why? I have no answers here but there has to be reasons. I think any site needs to adopt modern graphics and have a modern looking format, people can be quite shallow. We need to give a perception of being an organised, forward thinking group rather than as being a group led by Robin Hood (I'm not saying this is what people think) and I think a visually pleasing site could help with this. Our emotions are mediated by our perceptions which, roughly speaking, are partly created by the interpretations of our sensory apparatus and our memories of these interpretations. Emotions, in part, arise from our perceptions of what we see, hear, smell etcetera. We are all shallow in that respect.

 

People not going on LFC forums is why I was suggesting a viral earlier in the thread, if it's funny, captivating and emotionally engaging it will spread. Surely there has to be some first class graphic designers/movie makers who are Liverpool fans and are willing to donate their time.

 

Regarding the specific advertising of planned protests we need to begin planning protests weeks in advance and start leafleting for successive games. So for instance, say we have Barnsley, Inter, Boro and West Ham any leaflet could advertise planned protests at multiple games and it would increase the time allowing the group to captivate more people and it would also be disseminated to a lot more people. What is on these leaflets? Is there anything to state the aims of The Sons of Shankly? Do these leaflets state why there is a campaign, how people can help, is there anything that states what people can achieve by protesting, we need to let people know that protesting can have an effect rather than letting the idea that it's merely pissing into the wind, become the predominant one. This needs to be organised to the most minute detail but it also needs to and has to see the bigger picture.

[Al Campbell]

We need to get the message across, what's more important? Saving the club or saving five minutes in traffic? The usual 85 minute departers are a pain in the arse normally but when you've a protest against the twats after the game and they still piss off early it's doubley depressing.

[Dirk]

We need to get the message across, what's more important? Saving the club or saving five minutes in traffic? The usual 85 minute departers are a pain in the arse normally but when you've a protest against the twats after the game and they still piss off early it's doubley depressing.

 

 

There seemed to be more early leavers than normal yesterday.

[Original202]

The greatest struggle isn't the battle with the media, it's with sections of our own fans. It's maddening that people appear to be excusing the fact that they don't want to protest by focusing on Rafa. The two issues are entirely separate. You only had to read the match thread to get the feeling that there are people who won't protest or don't want to protest because they want Rafa gone. What sort of chance does the football club have when it's patronised by so many people with such an attitude? If Rafa needs to go, he needs to go, but Gillett and Hicks need to be gone too, even more so.

 

Well it doesn't help when the protesting includes singing Benitez's name and including his name in the anti G&H songs.

 

"They don't care about Rafa...."

 

Makes it seem like a G&H v Benitez thing.

[Dirk]

Well it doesn't help when the protesting includes singing Benitez's name and including his name in the anti G&H songs.

 

"They don't care about Rafa...."

 

Makes it seem like a G&H v Benitez thing.

 

Do you think Rafael Benitez is of greater detriment to the club than Gillett and/or Hicks? On the general point, I agree, though, they should be separate issues which is why it should be better organised.

[Original202]

Do you think Rafael Benitez is of greater detriment to the club than Gillett and/or Hicks? On the general point, I agree, though, they should be separate issues which is why it should be better organised.

 

Of course he's not Dirk.

 

But the two issues should be made totally seperate now.

 

 

Rafa was given plenty of support over the Klinsman thing and it was made clear that this was unacceptable.

 

Now the rest of the off field issues have to be addressed.

[melons]

Go easy on me its a first proper post!!! (if i've got it wrong dont shoot me down just let me know... oh an i couldn't do the quote thing....)

 

The greatest struggle isn't the battle with the media, it's with sections of our own fans. It's maddening that people appear to be excusing the fact that they don't want to protest by focusing on Rafa. The two issues are entirely separate. You only had to read the match thread to get the feeling that there are people who won't protest or don't want to protest because they want Rafa gone. What sort of chance does the football club have when it's patronised by so many people with such an attitude? If Rafa needs to go, he needs to go, but Gillett and Hicks need to be gone too, even more so

 

Its all about education, the more informed they are the more they should feel the need to stand and be accounted for...

 

Dirk stated....

The best way to disseminate this message is to utilise as many media formats as possible

 

There are x amount of forums, most people register, have a look once or twice then don't return, (don't look at me, I've been lurking on here in his name for years...;-) the shit of late is what got me on) anyway, they have an account with an email address registered to it. If all LFC forums fanzine or other mass emailed a communication network is opened. Its up to the individual to return for further information and progress.

 

 

Then you have non football net based communities, (facebook/bebo/my space) on those you add interests and there is on several the option to add interests... such as football / LFC you can then contact those with shared interests... set up another forum on facebook, if possible not to be open, just to attract members. Maybe sign post them the rest of the way.

 

Fans from Away - local supporters clubs.

 

Day trippers.... even your day trippers like myself... yeah, never used to be, grew up, had kids moved away. I'm a mum of 4, when i take the kids up we do make a day out and it costs a fookin fortune!!!! think i have a problem of boycott... hell no!!! Anyways.....These people may not attended regularly but they do talk, give them the info and if the passion is there they will go home look it up, talk to another person and so on.

 

 

It's difficult but I believe it can be done. I think that having too many groups will confuse the issue and eventually be counterproductive, LFCSN, RTK, Sons of Shankly etcetera. We need unity of purpose, of cause and of identity.

 

I agree, one of the first things i thought of when i saw SOS was does that mean the end of LFCSN....

 

 

 

Does anybody associated with the group have radio contacts? The same goes for newspaper contacts. What is being done to create a website? According to figures at Nielsen-netratings, 63.8% of people in the UK have net usage as of last year. Most football fans don't go on football forum sites. Why?

 

They might go on, but takes allot of balls to post amongst you lot... I've just grown some! I know allot of people who just check out the official site, it has a forum in there somewhere, not that i have ever been in there... but any chance of adding the odd sign post? each fanzine site should have a list of individual hits that it gets that will give you an idea of just how many people are reading and possbily getting the message.

 

 

What is on these leaflets? Is there anything to state the aims of The Sons of Shankly?

Also are they available for people to download? possibly an email version, each person sends a copy to everyone in their address book and is then forwarded??? How many of us get those stupid chain letters.. fook it, why not create one!!

 

 

going to hide away now... :whistle:

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

Go easy on me its a first proper post!!! (if i've got it wrong dont shoot me down just let me know... oh an i couldn't do the quote thing....)

 

The greatest struggle isn't the battle with the media, it's with sections of our own fans. It's maddening that people appear to be excusing the fact that they don't want to protest by focusing on Rafa. The two issues are entirely separate. You only had to read the match thread to get the feeling that there are people who won't protest or don't want to protest because they want Rafa gone. What sort of chance does the football club have when it's patronised by so many people with such an attitude? If Rafa needs to go, he needs to go, but Gillett and Hicks need to be gone too, even more so

 

Its all about education, the more informed they are the more they should feel the need to stand and be accounted for...

 

Dirk stated....

The best way to disseminate this message is to utilise as many media formats as possible

 

There are x amount of forums, most people register, have a look once or twice then don't return, (don't look at me, I've been lurking on here in his name for years...;-) the shit of late is what got me on) anyway, they have an account with an email address registered to it. If all LFC forums fanzine or other mass emailed a communication network is opened. Its up to the individual to return for further information and progress.

 

 

Then you have non football net based communities, (facebook/bebo/my space) on those you add interests and there is on several the option to add interests... such as football / LFC you can then contact those with shared interests... set up another forum on facebook, if possible not to be open, just to attract members. Maybe sign post them the rest of the way.

 

Fans from Away - local supporters clubs.

 

Day trippers.... even your day trippers like myself... yeah, never used to be, grew up, had kids moved away. I'm a mum of 4, when i take the kids up we do make a day out and it costs a fookin fortune!!!! think i have a problem of boycott... hell no!!! Anyways.....These people may not attended regularly but they do talk, give them the info and if the passion is there they will go home look it up, talk to another person and so on.

 

 

It's difficult but I believe it can be done. I think that having too many groups will confuse the issue and eventually be counterproductive, LFCSN, RTK, Sons of Shankly etcetera. We need unity of purpose, of cause and of identity.

 

I agree, one of the first things i thought of when i saw SOS was does that mean the end of LFCSN....

 

 

 

Does anybody associated with the group have radio contacts? The same goes for newspaper contacts. What is being done to create a website? According to figures at Nielsen-netratings, 63.8% of people in the UK have net usage as of last year. Most football fans don't go on football forum sites. Why?

 

They might go on, but takes allot of balls to post amongst you lot... I've just grown some! I know allot of people who just check out the official site, it has a forum in there somewhere, not that i have ever been in there... but any chance of adding the odd sign post? each fanzine site should have a list of individual hits that it gets that will give you an idea of just how many people are reading and possbily getting the message.

 

 

What is on these leaflets? Is there anything to state the aims of The Sons of Shankly?

Also are they available for people to download? possibly an email version, each person sends a copy to everyone in their address book and is then forwarded??? How many of us get those stupid chain letters.. fook it, why not create one!!

 

 

going to hide away now... :whistle:

 

SOS is LFCSN

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

Thanks for the post.

 

We only started this on Thursday night and we have a "working Commitee".Thanks to the HJC we got 20,000 leaflets printed and we distributed 9,000 yesterday.

 

The "working committee" will get together over the next few days to spell out our aims.

 

We want the owners out now! thats our main aim,and by boycotting the Official Outlets we can hit them in the pocket.

 

The long term project is very good,I'm speaking for myself on this,but I believe that we need to support the "supporter" especially on travel match expenses etc.

 

I want to start our own travel club and make it as cheap as possible for people to watch "our" club,especially for those who travel with the children.

 

Again there are so many things that we can do,but it will take time and hard work.

 

Solidarity Reg.....

 

[Mark P]

Thanks for the post.

 

We only started this on Thursday night and we have a "working Commitee".Thanks to the HJC we got 20,000 leaflets printed and we distributed 9,000 yesterday.

 

The "working committee" will get together over the next few days to spell out our aims.

We want the owners out now! thats our main aim,and by boycotting the Official Outlets we can hit them in the pocket.

 

The long term project is very good,I'm speaking for myself on this,but I believe that we need to support the "supporter" especially on travel match expenses etc.

 

I want to start our own travel club and make it as cheap as possible for people to watch "our" club,especially for those who travel with the children.

 

Again there are so many things that we can do,but it will take time and hard work.

 

ATK - You seem to be one of the driving forces behind the recent actions, which is great. I would have loved to have been at the Sandon last Thursday...work commitments will dictate whether I could be at the next one. However, that's beside the point, I digress...The key thing for me is to know exactly what the long-term "mission statement" is and to make sure that both the uniform message and any further information is put "out there" asap. Is this going to happen primarily through the Sons of Shanky website, which isn't up and running yet?

[melons]

Thanks for the post.

 

We only started this on Thursday night and we have a "working Commitee".Thanks to the HJC we got 20,000 leaflets printed and we distributed 9,000 yesterday.

 

The "working committee" will get together over the next few days to spell out our aims.

 

We want the owners out now! thats our main aim,and by boycotting the Official Outlets we can hit them in the pocket.

 

The long term project is very good,I'm speaking for myself on this,but I believe that we need to support the "supporter" especially on travel match expenses etc.

 

I want to start our own travel club and make it as cheap as possible for people to watch "our" club,especially for those who travel with the children.

 

Again there are so many things that we can do,but it will take time and hard work.

 

Did the quotte thing weh hay!!

 

Hats off to you all, your doing an amazing job, bollox, i hope my post didnt come accross that you wern't... fook.

[Dirk]

SOS is LFCSN

 

Cheers, I'm glad you cleared that up. I asked earlier, Andy, but how do we get involved?

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

ATK - You seem to be one of the driving forces behind the recent actions, which is great. I would have loved to have been at the Sandon last Thursday...work commitments will dictate whether I could be at the next one. However, that's beside the point, I digress...The key thing for me is to know exactly what the long-term "mission statement" is and to make sure that both the uniform message and any further information is put "out there" asap. Is this going to happen primarily through the Sons of Shanky website, which isn't up and running yet?

 

The website is being put together at the moment as well as the mission statement.

 

You will have to give us the courtesy of patience as unfortunately those behind the Sons Of Shankly all sadly have day jobs to attend too, so its hard to get us all together at the same time.

 

Hopefully once we are up and running and have a permanent commitee sorted, channels of commincation will be established and it'll be easily accessible for use by everyone.

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

Cheers, I'm glad you cleared that up. I asked earlier, Andy, but how do we get involved?

 

We are working on that at the minute mate, hopefully the website will provide a suitable portal for everyone to communicate through.

[Mark P]

The website is being put together at the moment as well as the mission statement.

 

You will have to give us the courtesy of patience as unfortunately those behind the Sons Of Shankly all sadly have day jobs to attend too, so its hard to get us all together at the same time.

 

Hopefully once we are up and running and have a permanent commitee sorted, channels of commincation will be established and it'll be easily accessible for use by everyone.

 

No worries, I appreciate the situation...hats off to you too....I believe you are one of the driving forces too?

 

Nice one...keep us posted.

 

I tried to raise the current issues at our supporters club branch meeting today (Please can everyone keep their opnions on supporters clubs to themselves right now?! ;-)...we've got some good long-standing reds who travel all over...). However, a good number were clueless and as much info I can dissemniate to them, the better, really.

[Kevin D]

Will there be something against Barnsly or are Fa cup games something which will not be disrupted?

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

No worries, I appreciate the situation...hats off to you too....I believe you are one of the driving forces too?

 

Nice one...keep us posted.

 

I tried to raise the current issues at our supporters club branch meeting today (Please can everyone keep their opnions on supporters clubs to themselves right now?! ;-)...we've got some good long-standing reds who travel all over...). However, a good number were clueless and as much info I can dissemniate to them, the better, really.

 

 

Cheers for the encouragement, you'd be amazed the amount of work the other lads have put in, I won't name them for fear of embarrassing them, but there has been some serious man hours put in by everyone.

 

It is no understatment on my part to say that it has reignited my passion and belief in the club, this has come about purely through the dedication and sheer bloody mindedness of people who I hardly know who, directly or indirectly are involved in the campaign, people who would love to think as friends and comrades for now and a long time in the future.

 

I have been truly humbled, and you should all know that, as I have come to realise over the last week, and as Nicky Allt put so succinctly, that the Spirit of the club will never die.

[Mark P]

What supporters club is it? Pat Scott(harrogate)?.

 

PM'd...

[Mark P]

Cheers for the encouragement, you'd be amazed the amount of work the other lads have put in, I won't name them for fear of embarrassing them, but there has been some serious man hours put in by everyone.

 

It is no understatment on my part to say that it has reignited my passion and belief in the club, this has come about purely through the dedication and sheer bloody mindedness of people who I hardly know who, directly or indirectly are involved in the campaign, people who would love to think as friends and comrades for now and a long time in the future.

 

I have been truly humbled, and you should all know that, as I have come to realise over the last week, and as Nicky Allt put so succinctly, that the Spirit of the club will never die.

 

Fantastic...hopefully that will spread and grow amongst hundreds and thousands of like-minded reds.

[kop77]

it will grow amongst hundreds and thousands of like-minded reds..its got to

__________________

[Cath]

Setanta showed the protest on the Kop but what was the response in the rest of the ground? Something that’s been niggling at me for most of this season now is the death of the Anny Road. I’ve spent most of my Reds supporting career in the Road end but the lack of response and understanding from my fellow Road enders at the Villa game was distressing. Is it a side effect of the RTK block that the couple of dozen noisy song-starting Scousers who used to be dotted around the rest of the ground have gone to the Kop?

 

I’ve spoken to Kopites who’ve thought a game’s atmosphere was quite good when we’ve hardly been able to hear a peep at the other end. Admittedly we’ve got the away fans to compete with but they have the advantage of standing.

 

One of the reasons we’re having difficulty getting the word out about the protest is that songs don’t spread around the ground any more. The protest songs start, and are concentrated in, the back of the Kop.

[Bob]

Setanta showed the protest on the Kop but what was the response in the rest of the ground? Something that’s been niggling at me for most of this season now is the death of the Anny Road. I’ve spent most of my Reds supporting career in the Road end but the lack of response and understanding from my fellow Road enders at the Villa game was distressing. Is it a side effect of the RTK block that the couple of dozen noisy song-starting Scousers who used to be dotted around the rest of the ground have gone to the Kop?

 

I’ve spoken to Kopites who’ve thought a game’s atmosphere was quite good when we’ve hardly been able to hear a peep at the other end. Admittedly we’ve got the away fans to compete with but they have the advantage of standing.

 

One of the reasons we’re having difficulty getting the word out about the protest is that songs don’t spread around the ground any more. The protest songs start, and are concentrated in, the back of the Kop.

 

Cath, a can't say much about most of your point as i never sit in the road end as i have a kop season ticket, but for the protest there were reds all over the ground that stayed. They were scattered through the main stand, anny road and centenary, and a few of them stayed round for 10-15 minutes and then dispersed. Always going to be easier to stay on the kop as its the focal point and where it is eminating from, but there were definately a few that stayed with it.