Manchester United 4 Liverpool 3 (Mar 17 2024)

[Carra_is_legend]

Just when I thought I was getting this game out of my mind, I read this report. I am now back in the fuming mode. 

[Mark M]

Good report.

One of the things that annoys the fuck out of me when watching it yesterday is how much they tried & the effort they put in against us which they don't do when they play their local "rivals" City.

[dave u]

3 hours ago, s(k)aturation said:

 

I just don't get the "we'll beat them because they're shit" thing.

I mean, yeah, we're the better team at the moment, but when we play each other all bets are always off.

There's always the chance of an unexpected result.

And anyone who thinks they won't be going crazy to fuck up our season in a couple of weeks... brace yourself.

We should win.  I really really hope we do.

But it's no guarantee.  Against them.  Ever.

 

But they were shit in this game, that's the point. None of this "form book goes out of the window". It has done in the past, for both sides. We've won games we had no right to based on the league table, but we did it by raising our game.

 

That's not what happened here. They were shite and were really easy to play against. Not winning that game is all about us, nothing to do with anything they did.

[El Rojo]

Genuine question - do people think the players will be aware of how bad losing to them in that way is for us, or are they more insulated from it these days?

 

Hopefully lads like Virgil, Trent and Curtis won’t leave the others under any illusions as to what’s expected in the league game against a now revitalised side.

[Mark M]

2 hours ago, dave u said:

 

But they were shit in this game, that's the point. None of this "form book goes out of the window". It has done in the past, for both sides. We've won games we had no right to based on the league table, but we did it by raising our game.

 

That's not what happened here. They were shite and were really easy to play against. Not winning that game is all about us, nothing to do with anything they did.

They didn’t rope a dope us and score once or twice.
They scored fucking four!! And Kelleher made a couple of saves first half they could have had more than that. 
fucking four!!!!

Not going to lie I’m dreading the league match against them now I thought we’d win comfortably at the weekend.

Never ever again am i underestimating those pricks. 

[whtwht]

36 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

Genuine question - do people think the players will be aware of how bad losing to them in that way is for us, or are they more insulated from it these days?

 

Hopefully lads like Virgil, Trent and Curtis won’t leave the others under any illusions as to what’s expected in the league game against a now revitalised side.

Hmmm I'd hope Robertson would also help the others know. I didn't watch the game fully thankfully as out enjoying myself with my manc supporting girlfriend at southport weekender.

[Bobby Hundreds]

20 minutes ago, Mark M said:

They didn’t rope a dope us and score once or twice.
They scored fucking four!! And Kelleher made a couple of saves first half they could have had more than that. 
fucking four!!!!

Not going to lie I’m dreading the league match against them now I thought we’d win comfortably at the weekend.

Never ever again am i underestimating those pricks. 

We played right in to their hands it was brain dead from start to finish.

[dave u]

1 hour ago, Mark M said:

They didn’t rope a dope us and score once or twice.
They scored fucking four!! And Kelleher made a couple of saves first half they could have had more than that. 
fucking four!!!!

Not going to lie I’m dreading the league match against them now I thought we’d win comfortably at the weekend.

Never ever again am i underestimating those pricks. 

 

Ok I'm not explaining this properly. It isn't about under-estimating them. For the most part they were as shit as I expected them to be. Yes, they scored four. Two of those came when we were absolutely fucked in extra time and I'm completely discounting extra time from this. Some of the other chances were offside and wouldn't have counted (so ignore the laughably distorted XG nonsense), but it distorts how we view the balance of the game.

 

What happened was they came out all guns blazing and caused us problems early on. They were good in that spell, no question. It's to be expected though. I could even see Everton doing that to us at home because they have to come out with fire in their belly but these plucky underdog sides just can't sustain that level of manic effort for very long. They punch themselves out and then rely on having a good shape, making it as difficult as possible and then hoping for counter attacks. United had counter attacks, but they did not make it difficult at all and their shape was hilarious.

 

The better side just has to wether the early storm then take control, which we did. That second half was complete and utter dominance, because they are - and I can't stress this enough - proper shite tactically. There were gaps everywhere, it was like playing a kids team. At times Szoboszlai was in 20 yards of space between their midfield and defence, it was laughable. 

 

We beat them 7-0 last year and most of the failings they had then were there this time too. We were just sloppy and far too lacking in focus when it came to exploiting them. Us not scoring in that second half had nothing to do with them and everything to do with us. They did their best to let us batter them.

 

Of course they still have players who can hurt you, and occasionally there were flashes of that (especially when we got tired), but this was not a game where the opposition played well above their usual level and we didn't show up. That's what usually happens in this fixture when a heavy favourite doesn't win, but this wasn't that.

 

We drew here 1-1 when we won the league, it can happen when they raise their game and we don't. We've done it to them loads of times too when they were much better than us. I'm saying that didn't happen this time and the reasons we were so confident about this game were there for all to see. 

 

They were fucking awful from around 20-85 minutes and for us to not have put them away in that second half is scandalous really. We won't have more space in a game all season than we had in that second half. How many attacking overloads do you need to get a fucking goal?

 

We had 5v2, at least twice we had 4v2 and there were probably half a dozen more where it was essentially 5v5 with a ball carrier running at them with passing options. That doesn't happen against a team that has played well and made it difficult for us. It didn't happen at Luton. Shit, it didn't happen at Palace or Sheffield United either. Even Burnley were more difficult to play through, and they're naive as fuck.

 

Tactically this is the worst team we've faced all season and it's embarrassing that we didn't exploit it. We lost that second half 1-0. That's fucking incredible when you think about it. That's why we got beat, not because of extra time when half the team were out on their feet, our game management went to shit and they got their tails up. It should never have got that point because they were genuinely hopeless in that second half and they'd basically given up. They were beaten and they knew it, until it gets to 85 minutes and they're somehow only a goal down and they suddenly have hope.

 

So Mark, you didn't under-estimate United and neither did I. United are exactly who we thought they were. This defeat is 100% on us.

[dave u]

3 hours ago, El Rojo said:

Genuine question - do people think the players will be aware of how bad losing to them in that way is for us, or are they more insulated from it these days?

 

Hopefully lads like Virgil, Trent and Curtis won’t leave the others under any illusions as to what’s expected in the league game against a now revitalised side.

 

They'll know how we're feeling, absolutely they will. I don't think these lads are insulated from that at all, they get it.

 

My question would be what I said in the report. Do they know just how fucking embarrassing and inexcusable that was to lose that second half given how easy it was and how many opportunities they had to slice them apart? I hope they do, and they don't look at it as "it's away at Old Trafford, it's a tough game" because it fucking wasn't.

[dave u]

5 hours ago, Mark M said:

Good report.

One of the things that annoys the fuck out of me when watching it yesterday is how much they tried & the effort they put in against us which they don't do when they play their local "rivals" City.

 

In the first 20 minutes and then in the last five. There wasn't much effort in between that when our lads were in acres of space every time they got the ball. 

[s(k)aturation]

8 hours ago, Supremolad said:

Exactly. You would have thought people should know this by now. But I guess what has skewed our expectations is the 5 nil win at Old Trafford and 7 nil win over them at Anfield. Since the 7 nil especially, too many of our fans have gone into games against Man Utd with the mindset of "we're battering them".

 

Yes, we should expect to beat them because we are far better than them but too often, our games against them don't go by that reality. It's just the way it has been for a long time even when they've been better than us they struggled at Anfield most times. We've only won twice at Old Trafford in almost 9 years of Klopp's reign. People need to acknowledge the unique thing this rivalry brings with it.

 

 

I've dreaded playing them since the '77 Cup Final, when they beat us when we were arguably the best team in the world.

 

[s(k)aturation]

5 hours ago, dave u said:

 

But they were shit in this game, that's the point. None of this "form book goes out of the window". It has done in the past, for both sides. We've won games we had no right to based on the league table, but we did it by raising our game.

 

That's not what happened here. They were shite and were really easy to play against. Not winning that game is all about us, nothing to do with anything they did.

 

 

That might well go to my point as well as yours though, dave.

They were shit and still managed to score 4 goals.

Just like we were an ordinary side last year, but looked like Real Madrid 1960 against them when we scored 7.

Then, who would have predicted 0-0 at Anfield earlier this season too.

These games, this rivalry is mercurial.

 

[Reckoner]

Going off on one about Alison being on his couch made me laugh. Poor Ali haha

[stringvest]

9 hours ago, Peter Cormack said:

Great report on a disasterous game Dave. The subs baffled me, mo should have been off at half time bradley a straight swop for Joe clark came on too late to have any impact and as you say Nunez should have been replaced probably before their second goal. Why Dannsey didn‘t get on was a criminal act considering Gakpo‘s non performance. The 77 cup final, the worse result against these ever, robbing us of the treble, is on a par with this. I still have the scars from 77.

oh fuck - that was horrible, though the following week perked us up a bit

[Mathewbet1]

Some of it has to come down to poor game management, we should have shut up shop in the last 5 mins, of normal and extra time, two bites of the cherry but still allowed them to break on us, I know we keep attacking until the end it's a large part of what makes us, us, but a maybe sticking an extra midfielder or defender or going 451 could have secured it. I think we will beat them comfortably in the league for for whats it worth and I doubt our players will need much motivation for revenge on this one. It'll will be quite funny when man city turn them over in the final and their 'best win of the decade' means zilch, cant wait for them to bring the DVD out, 'the time we spawned an fa cup win and won fuck all' would be a good working title. 

[Arnaud]

Great report, Dave, it helps a little to deal with the result.

 

Nice words on Kelleher and I totally agree.

 

We are getting tired, going there again and to Goodison won’t be easy, that will be the game of the season for both of them.

[lebron]

I'm actually nearly over this one, the 1-1 draw with City rankles me a lot more if I'm honest. Just watched the gloss-over by Webb and Owen on the pen incident, and I'm fuming more about that.

 

Might have something to do with me being happy with the club, our team and how our outlook is. Might be that I just value the league so much more these days I guess. Winning the league cup was great, and winning the fa cup would have been great too, but if we want to win the league I think having two Wembley trips (with one of them being against the cheats) might have been too much to handle. We'll get a bit more rest than City now, and on paper a better run-in than both them and Arsenal.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with Dave on Utd's shitness. This loss was much more on Nunez and Salah than it was on Gakpo though. Shocking performances from the both of them, I don't think they made one correct decision between them over the 90 mins. If they did, we would have won 5/6-1, as they had just about given up, we only needed to take care of one of the breaks they offered us. Both Nunez and Salah were on the pitch in that period, Gakpo wasn't. I'm not saying he had a good game, far from it, but I think pinning the blame on him is a bit cheap.

 

Anyway, the future is still bright for us, while I don't think we'll see our red rivals doing anything useful for the foreseeable future. Hopefully Ratcliffe keeps ten Hag in the hot seat, as they are going absolutely nowhere with him at the helm. Even better would be if they brought in Southgate of course.

[s(k)aturation]

18 hours ago, Peter Cormack said:

The 77 cup final, the worse result against these ever, robbing us of the treble, is on a par with this. I still have the scars from 77.

 

 

I still haven't recovered from it, and have never trusted a fixture against them ever since.

 

[JustTosh]

13 hours ago, dave u said:

 

Ok I'm not explaining this properly. It isn't about under-estimating them. For the most part they were as shit as I expected them to be. Yes, they scored four. Two of those came when we were absolutely fucked in extra time and I'm completely discounting extra time from this. Some of the other chances were offside and wouldn't have counted (so ignore the laughably distorted XG nonsense), but it distorts how we view the balance of the game.

 

What happened was they came out all guns blazing and caused us problems early on. They were good in that spell, no question. It's to be expected though. I could even see Everton doing that to us at home because they have to come out with fire in their belly but these plucky underdog sides just can't sustain that level of manic effort for very long. They punch themselves out and then rely on having a good shape, making it as difficult as possible and then hoping for counter attacks. United had counter attacks, but they did not make it difficult at all and their shape was hilarious.

 

The better side just has to wether the early storm then take control, which we did. That second half was complete and utter dominance, because they are - and I can't stress this enough - proper shite tactically. There were gaps everywhere, it was like playing a kids team. At times Szoboszlai was in 20 yards of space between their midfield and defence, it was laughable. 

 

We beat them 7-0 last year and most of the failings they had then were there this time too. We were just sloppy and far too lacking in focus when it came to exploiting them. Us not scoring in that second half had nothing to do with them and everything to do with us. They did their best to let us batter them.

 

Of course they still have players who can hurt you, and occasionally there were flashes of that (especially when we got tired), but this was not a game where the opposition played well above their usual level and we didn't show up. That's what usually happens in this fixture when a heavy favourite doesn't win, but this wasn't that.

 

We drew here 1-1 when we won the league, it can happen when they raise their game and we don't. We've done it to them loads of times too when they were much better than us. I'm saying that didn't happen this time and the reasons we were so confident about this game were there for all to see. 

 

They were fucking awful from around 20-85 minutes and for us to not have put them away in that second half is scandalous really. We won't have more space in a game all season than we had in that second half. How many attacking overloads do you need to get a fucking goal?

 

We had 5v2, at least twice we had 4v2 and there were probably half a dozen more where it was essentially 5v5 with a ball carrier running at them with passing options. That doesn't happen against a team that has played well and made it difficult for us. It didn't happen at Luton. Shit, it didn't happen at Palace or Sheffield United either. Even Burnley were more difficult to play through, and they're naive as fuck.

 

Tactically this is the worst team we've faced all season and it's embarrassing that we didn't exploit it. We lost that second half 1-0. That's fucking incredible when you think about it. That's why we got beat, not because of extra time when half the team were out on their feet, our game management went to shit and they got their tails up. It should never have got that point because they were genuinely hopeless in that second half and they'd basically given up. They were beaten and they knew it, until it gets to 85 minutes and they're somehow only a goal down and they suddenly have hope.

 

So Mark, you didn't under-estimate United and neither did I. United are exactly who we thought they were. This defeat is 100% on us.

100% the way I saw it too.

 

Hopefully they still believe this was their turning point, pat themselves on the back, and do the same on April 7th.

 

Failing to deal with it once was terrible. Failing twice would be a criminal offence. Klopp knows it and it won't happen. Looking forward to the PL match in a couple of weeks.

 

 

[beejay]

I know you shouldn't compare but in my mad over the top reaction at full time I was shouting out for the Mane/Firmino/Salah slide rule destruction of teams in the final third, especially on the break. 

 

Instead, this was yet another butchering of so many opportunities. 

 

Klopp 2.0 is ace at creating chances, we are doing fucking great and I love the players to bits but ffs how do we manage to make so many awful judgement calls 

[jonnyp]

On 20/03/2024 at 02:46, dave u said:

The better side just has to wether the early storm then take control, which we did.

Was that a typo Dave or a clever and deliberate use of a word to describe our second half performance?

[Total Longo]

On 19/03/2024 at 19:48, s(k)aturation said:

 

 

I've dreaded playing them since the '77 Cup Final, when they beat us when we were arguably the best team in the world.

 

 

And they won it, of course they did, by scoring the jammiest, flukiest goal in history. Just glad i was a little too young to notice it. My first heartbreak at their hands was Jimmy Greenhoff's late winner in the 79 semi final replay.   

[dave u]

6 hours ago, jonnyp said:

Was that a typo Dave or a clever and deliberate use of a word to describe our second half performance?

 

Not clever, I thought that was how you spell it in that instance. Should it have been weather the storm?

[Supremolad]

Seen a comment above claiming Salah and Nunez had "shocking performances" and "didn't make one correct decision between them throughout the 90 mins". Firstly Salah only played 75 odd minutes and clearly didnt have great match sharpness on account of being out for most of 2 months. Still bagged a goal regardless.

 

I know the anger and disappointment usually makes some people ignore anything good but it's worth pointing out that Nunez had a direct contribution to the first two goals, laying one on for Alexis. And forcing a save which led to Salah's goal. Nunez also forced a couple good saves in the 2nd half. He made a shocking error leading up to their equalizer but it wasnt a shocking performance by any stretch.

[Supremolad]

When people say that playing Utd often causes results which renders disparity in quality inconsequential, it's not because we are praising Utd for raising their game and playing top level football. It's because in many of these cases, the team which is better on paper ends up being dragged down to the level of the worse team.

 

When Liverpool drew there in the 2020 season, it wasnt because Utd were great that day. Liverpool simply didn't play to the high standards which eventually saw us getting 99 pts. It also happens to them too. Very often during Ferguson's era when they were the superior side, we also dragged them down to our level. Never rule out  our ability to drop down to their level in these away games.

 

We're better than them and should batter them on April 7th but it simply isn't a guarantee bcos the intense rivalry element comes into play. Even with Everton which have been an even worse team than Utd during Klopp's era, how many times have we gone there to batter them at Goodison? Only one 3 goal margin win over there in almost 9 years. The only other win was by a late Sadio winner.