Our midfield

[El Rojo]

I wonder if the Gakpo signing will see us dropping a few yards deeper and trying to play on the counter more. 

[an tha]

1 hour ago, Scott_M said:

We’ve missed Keita this season.

 

Mock away, but he played 40+ times last season and was available for the majority of the run in. 
 

Anyway, hopefully tomorrow is the first time we’ve had Fabinho, Hendo and Thiago all available since, dunno, Fulham? 

A 3rd game in a week for Hendo?

 

Not for me, Clive....

[Scott_M]

23 minutes ago, an tha said:

A 3rd game in a week for Hendo?

 

Not for me, Clive....

Would be the for Thiago.

 

IMO, I’d be starting Bajcetic. I could see Keita starting.

[an tha]

Just now, Scott_M said:

Would be the for Thiago.

 

IMO, I’d be starting Bajcetic. I could see Keita starting.

I can see Keita playing.

 

I think he will go Thiago, Fabinho, Keita with Hendo coming on for Thiago after an hour.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

If we’re not buying anyone Jurgen needs to work his magic with what we’ve got obviously. Won’t be easy.

[Carvalho Diablo]

Getting fed up with this "Hendo can no longer play 2-3 games in a week" thing, the problem isn't the amount of football expected or the age creeping in, Henderson's problem had always been that he's just not good enough.

 

Never has been, not even close.

[Carvalho Diablo]

Bottom line imo is that out of all the midfielders we have on our books, only one is good enough for a team with our aspirations - Thiago, but even his legs are going and he's injury prone too.

 

The rest of them you could chuck into a skip and no fucker would notice or give a toss.

[Grinch]

2 minutes ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

Getting fed up with this "Hendo can no longer play 2-3 games in a week" thing, the problem isn't the amount of football expected or the age creeping in, Henderson's problem had always been that he's just not good enough.

 

Never has been, not even close.

Yes of course.  That’s how we won everything with him being a mainstray.

 

No doubt you were one of the ones wanking Joe Allen off.

[Carvalho Diablo]

Just now, Grinch said:

Yes of course.  That’s how we won everything with him being a mainstray.

 

No doubt you were one of the ones wanking Joe Allen off.

Nope. Hendo runs around and waves his arms, he's never been aware enough to play as a 6 and he's never been creative or skilfull enough to play as an 8.

 

Hendo did have an 18 month purple patch where (imo) he pressed like a lunatic and had increased influence from the inside right channel, but even then I always believed a top quality offensive midfielder would have given us far more.

[Grinch]

2 minutes ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

Nope. Hendo runs around and waves his arms, he's never been aware enough to play as a 6 and he's never been creative or skilfull enough to play as an 8.

 

Hendo did have an 18 month purple patch where (imo) he pressed like a lunatic and had increased influence from the inside right channel, but even then I always believed a top quality offensive midfielder would have given us far more.

Hysterical.

 

You were wrong about him massively. Rewriting history now that his legs have gone, classy.

[TheHowieLama]

Why do people keep suggesting Trent in midfield? He has never shown the skillset needed for our system. He can't beat a man off the dribble, hasn't ever had to receive/turn in tight spaces and has never been asked to have near the workrate chasing the ball. 

 

Think it is a hopeful case of assuming he would be this combination of deBruyne standing unmarked whipping balls in and then taking a few Gerrardesque 30 yard bombs. Strange.

[Carvalho Diablo]

24 minutes ago, Grinch said:

Hysterical.

 

You were wrong about him massively. Rewriting history now that his legs have gone, classy.

Hey, we disagree. That's not hysteria and I'm not rewriting history iro my criticisms of Henderson.

 

I'd love it if he found a 2nd wind to prove me wrong.

[VladimirIlyich]

1 hour ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

Nope. Hendo runs around and waves his arms, he's never been aware enough to play as a 6 and he's never been creative or skilfull enough to play as an 8.

 

Hendo did have an 18 month purple patch where (imo) he pressed like a lunatic and had increased influence from the inside right channel, but even then I always believed a top quality offensive midfielder would have given us far more.

Far more than a CL and PL title? Don't talk crap. I am fine with people not rating a player but denying facts to suit your argument is just bollocks.

[Red Shift]

4 hours ago, Lee909 said:

For as good as Thiago is he is still as one paced as the rest and one quick movement of the ball catches all of them out and takes the midfield out the game. You can mitigate them limitations is the other 2 can get around the field and hold their positions. 

 

I'd be looking at Trent as that RCM until we get someone in. Get Gomez in at RB. Adds some legs to the midfield and stops teams having that out ball behind Trent. Also stops us getting done at the back post while Trent stands waiting for the ball

Yeah this is something I’ve been thinking too. We have more cover at RB so playing Gomez and Trent together and moving Trent up, is plausible. 

[Daisy]

Always had a bit of time for Henderson. Still think he can contribute in the massive games at Anfield when we need urgency. 

 

But that last performance was fucking awful. Can't believe he stayed on the pitch 

[CapeRed]

4 hours ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

Getting fed up with this "Hendo can no longer play 2-3 games in a week" thing, the problem isn't the amount of football expected or the age creeping in, Henderson's problem had always been that he's just not good enough.

 

Never has been, not even close.

Dont know why we brought in Klopp as he has never seen how shite Hendo was/is Dalglish was the same too and dont get me started on England managers.

[an tha]

2 hours ago, Daisy said:

Always had a bit of time for Henderson. Still think he can contribute in the massive games at Anfield when we need urgency. 

 

But that last performance was fucking awful. Can't believe he stayed on the pitch 

Hendo will be a sound option for us when he is only asked to play once a week/come on as a sub in 2nd and 3rd games in a week and as a rotation option.

 

He simply can't do the 2 or 3 games a week lark now.

 

People point to him being good for Ingerlund in that shite in Qatar I didn't watch it so I don't know - but what I do know is it is a totally different ball game - it is much slower, much less intense and i'd imagine he isn't asked to do in midfield for Ingerlund what he is asked to do in our set up.

 

Great servant for this club, great leader - but for me his role going forward should be like the one Milner has held over last couple of years or so.

[Chip Butty]

We used to be as good without the ball, as we were with it, but now our midfield gets passed through.
We lack presence and the dynamism to affect the game without the ball. Henderson was great at that but those influential days appear to be becoming less and less, Fabs been ropey all season. Hopefully some fresh legs from a Bellingham or the emergence of Bajcetic, or both, may give us that dynamic edge we appear to be lacking.

[Red Shift]

7 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Why do people keep suggesting Trent in midfield? He has never shown the skillset needed for our system. He can't beat a man off the dribble, hasn't ever had to receive/turn in tight spaces and has never been asked to have near the workrate chasing the ball. 

 

Think it is a hopeful case of assuming he would be this combination of deBruyne standing unmarked whipping balls in and then taking a few Gerrardesque 30 yard bombs. Strange.

Repositioning is the new purchasing.

[Aventus]

8 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Why do people keep suggesting Trent in midfield? He has never shown the skillset needed for our system. He can't beat a man off the dribble, hasn't ever had to receive/turn in tight spaces and has never been asked to have near the workrate chasing the ball. 

 

Think it is a hopeful case of assuming he would be this combination of deBruyne standing unmarked whipping balls in and then taking a few Gerrardesque 30 yard bombs. Strange.

Partly because he has recently developed a habit of randomly wandering into the number 10 position and leaving the right wing a man short, so we thought why not just let him do it officially and put another rb on instead. 

[3 Stacks]

I slurped Arsenal in the other thread, but they're worth a mention here also because the more I see what they're doing, the less I feel like blaming the midfielders we have. 

 

We clearly need investment there, that's not in question, but you're not going to convince me that a midfield consisting of Granit Xhaka, a notoriously slow and rash 30 year old who now also takes up loads of advanced attacking positions, Thomas Partey, granted a pretty mobile player, but someone who had rarely played a lone #6 role and who doesn't have the pedigree or the experience of Fabinho in that position, and Martin Odegaard, a number 10, is supposed to be way more solid and have more "legs" than us. The totality of their team might be young and vibrant but their starting midfield isn't so. 

 

I mean and then, they play a far more attacking midfield than ours, Xhaka plays further up than Thiago does, Odegaard, as mentioned, plays high up as well and is naturally more of an attacking player anyway, and Partey doesn't just sit in front of the CB's either. Despite all that, they manage to be organized and have a solid shape, And then secondly, Xhaka, like I said is 30 and Partey is the same age as Fabinho. And I get that our players are tired and all that, but the age is not all that different.

 

And even the shape as well. What we try to do with Elliott and Henderson playing on the right is about the same concept as what Arsenal do with Odegaard. They're all supposed to be attacking threats, And Odegaard is far better than Elliott and Henderson, but the point is it's the same sort of idea. 

 

So really, I don't see how Arsenal should be this organized, and we can't at least be above the standard of a fucking relegation type side in terms of solidity in the middle, with the players we have. Tactically, it's just way too risky. We're creating a lot of chances with this midfield setup, granted, but we are fucking awful at defending the middle. Awful. There can't be that big of a discrepancy. 

 

 

[Red Shift]

16 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

I slurped Arsenal in the other thread, but they're worth a mention here also because the more I see what they're doing, the less I feel like blaming the midfielders we have. 

 

We clearly need investment there, that's not in question, but you're not going to convince me that a midfield consisting of Granit Xhaka, a notoriously slow and rash 30 year old who now also takes up loads of advanced attacking positions, Thomas Partey, granted a pretty mobile player, but someone who had rarely played a lone #6 role and who doesn't have the pedigree or the experience of Fabinho in that position, and Martin Odegaard, a number 10, is supposed to be way more solid and have more "legs" than us. The totality of their team might be young and vibrant but their starting midfield isn't so. 

 

I mean and then, they play a far more attacking midfield than ours, Xhaka plays further up than Thiago does, Odegaard, as mentioned, plays high up as well and is naturally more of an attacking player anyway, and Partey doesn't just sit in front of the CB's either. Despite all that, they manage to be organized and have a solid shape, And then secondly, Xhaka, like I said is 30 and Partey is the same age as Fabinho. And I get that our players are tired and all that, but the age is not all that different.

 

And even the shape as well. What we try to do with Elliott and Henderson playing on the right is about the same concept as what Arsenal do with Odegaard. They're all supposed to be attacking threats, And Odegaard is far better than Elliott and Henderson, but the point is it's the same sort of idea. 

 

So really, I don't see how Arsenal should be this organized, and we can't at least be above the standard of a fucking relegation type side in terms of solidity in the middle, with the players we have. Tactically, it's just way too risky. We're creating a lot of chances with this midfield setup, granted, but we are fucking awful at defending the middle. Awful. There can't be that big of a discrepancy. 

 

 

We aren’t far off Arsenal at all. We know the decisions in that match were dubious, and Klopp received a personal apology. We had every right, with better officiating, to leave the Emirates with 3 points. That means the only team in the top 5 (above us) that genuinely beat us, was Utd.

 

However, against shit teams we don’t turn up. Which is why I say, our issues are mental.

[Red Shift]

Jurgen has faith in the squad. Do we have faith in Jurgen? I know I do.

 

 

[CapeRed]

6 hours ago, an tha said:

Hendo will be a sound option for us when he is only asked to play once a week/come on as a sub in 2nd and 3rd games in a week and as a rotation option.

 

He simply can't do the 2 or 3 games a week lark now.

 

People point to him being good for Ingerlund in that shite in Qatar I didn't watch it so I don't know - but what I do know is it is a totally different ball game - it is much slower, much less intense and i'd imagine he isn't asked to do in midfield for Ingerlund what he is asked to do in our set up.

 

Great servant for this club, great leader - but for me his role going forward should be like the one Milner has held over last couple of years or so.

Yeah I agree , been a good servant but no chance of him playing 2 or 3 games in a row. I saw highlights of the WC and players had so much more space and time and Hendo could sit in allowing Bellingham the freedom of the park.

[VladimirIlyich]

16 hours ago, Daisy said:

Always had a bit of time for Henderson. Still think he can contribute in the massive games at Anfield when we need urgency. 

 

But that last performance was fucking awful. Can't believe he stayed on the pitch 

I don't disagree at all. He is now in Milner territory based on how he should be managed.