Russia v Ukraine

[Rico1304]

13 minutes ago, Red Shift said:

Of course he had a choice. I’m saying he made the wrong choice, I’m saying that a man like Putin is going to take the opportunity. If you play with fire, you get burned. Ukrainian ultra nationalists are only interested in a strong independent Ukraine, which is why fourteen odd thousand Russian speaking people were killed in the South Eastern part of the country over the last eight years.

 

If Putin just woke up one morning in February and decided ‘ oh what a lovely morning to start a massacre over the border in Ukraine’ why not 8 yrs ago? 

They were playing with fire? Another way of saying they brought it on themselves. 
 

‘Sure she got raped but she was wearing a short skirt and makeup’

[Red Phoenix]

From a Chomsky interview with the New Statesman :

 

Quote

The occasion for our conversation is the publication of Chronicles of Dissent, a collection of interviews between Chomsky and the radical journalist David Barsamian from 1984 to 1996. But the backdrop is the war in Ukraine – a subject about which Chomsky is unsurprisingly voluble.

“It’s monstrous for Ukraine,” he said. In common with many Jews, Chomsky has a family connection to the region: his father was born in present-day Ukraine and emigrated to the US in 1913 to avoid serving in the tsarist army; his mother was born in Belarus. Chomsky, who is often accused by critics of refusing to condemn any anti-Western government, unhesitatingly denounced Vladimir Putin’s “criminal aggression”.

But he added: “Why did he do it? There are two ways of looking at this question. One way, the fashionable way in the West, is to plumb the recesses of Putin’s twisted mind and try to determine what’s happening in his deep psyche.

“The other way would be to look at the facts: for example, that in September 2021 the United States came out with a strong policy statement, calling for enhanced military cooperation with Ukraine, further sending of advanced military weapons, all part of the enhancement programme of Ukraine joining Nato. You can take your choice, we don’t know which is right. What we do know is that Ukraine will be further devastated. And we may move on to terminal nuclear war if we do not pursue the opportunities that exist for a negotiated settlement.”

How does he respond to the argument that Putin’s greatest fear is not encirclement by Nato but the spread of liberal democracy in Ukraine and Russia’s “near abroad”?

“Putin is as concerned with democracy as we are. If it’s possible to break out of the propaganda bubble for a few minutes, the US has a long record of undermining and destroying democracy. Do I have to run through it? Iran in 1953, Guatemala in 1954, Chile in 1973, on and on… But we are supposed to now honour and admire Washington’s enormous commitment to sovereignty and democracy. What happened in history doesn’t matter. That’s for other people.

“What about Nato expansion? There was an explicit, unambiguous promise by [US secretary of state] James Baker and president George HW Bush to Gorbachev that if he agreed to allow a unified Germany to rejoin Nato, the US would ensure that there would be no move one inch to the east. There’s a good deal of lying going on about this now.”

Chomsky, who observed in 1990 that “if the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every postwar American president would have been hanged”, spoke witheringly of Joe Biden.

“It’s certainly right to have moral outrage about Putin’s actions in Ukraine,” he said of Biden’s recent declaration that the Russian president “cannot remain in power”. “But it would be even more progress to have moral outrage about other horrible atrocities… In Afghanistan, literally millions of people are facing imminent starvation. Why? There’s food in the markets. But people who have little money have to watch their children starve because they can’t go to the market to buy food. Why? Because the United States, with the backing of Britain, has kept Afghanistan’s funds in New York banks and will not release them.”

 

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/encounter/2022/04/noam-chomsky-were-approaching-the-most-dangerous-point-in-human-history

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 hour ago, Red Shift said:

Of course he had a choice.

He did. Which is why I find the 'forced' - meaning no choice - line to be inaccurate. 

[Pureblood]

1 hour ago, Strontium said:

Russia doesn't get to start a war, then moan about the fact that the war they started has resulted in deaths. That's insane.

Does this apply to the West Bank? Asking for a friend. 

[SasaS]

20 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

From a Chomsky interview with the New Statesman :

 

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/encounter/2022/04/noam-chomsky-were-approaching-the-most-dangerous-point-in-human-history

Russia crashed Ukraine's wedding ceremony and tried to drag her away. Ukraine resisted so Russia ripped her knickers and tried to rape her in an alley. US bought Ukraine a pair of new, sexy knickers. Russia saw that, went crazy with lust, followed Ukraine around until it was able to corner her again and is now trying to finish the job.

 

Chomsky: hmmm... sexy knickers you say?

[Strontium]

49 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

Does this apply to the West Bank? Asking for a friend. 

 

Principles are universal. 

[Captain Howdy]

49 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Russia crashed Ukraine's wedding ceremony and tried to drag her away. Ukraine resisted so Russia ripped her knickers and tried to rape her in an alley. US bought Ukraine a pair of new, sexy knickers. Russia saw that, went crazy with lust, followed Ukraine around until it was able to corner her again and is now trying to finish the job.

 

Chomsky: hmmm... sexy knickers you say?

Never understood why so many love having his balls bouncing on their chin.

[Red Phoenix]

1 hour ago, SasaS said:

Russia crashed Ukraine's wedding ceremony and tried to drag her away. Ukraine resisted so Russia ripped her knickers and tried to rape her in an alley. US bought Ukraine a pair of new, sexy knickers. Russia saw that, went crazy with lust, followed Ukraine around until it was able to corner her again and is now trying to finish the job.

 

Chomsky: hmmm... sexy knickers you say?

 

Good to know that Chomsky has decided to join us out here on the Russian troll farm.

[Red Shift]

1 hour ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

He did. Which is why I find the 'forced' - meaning no choice - line to be inaccurate. 

Point taken. I’m not as articulate as some on here.

[Section_31]

I don't doubt the West is capable of fucking around in Russia's back yard and that we're capable of any amount of heinous shit, but that's irrelevent to what the Russians are doing.

 

If they'd sanctioned Ukraine, pulled the plug on their gas, lodged a protest with the UN or whatever, fair enough, but they didn't, they decided to pummel civilian areas and kill women and kids deliberately. Nothing justifies that, including what other wars may or may not be being fought elsewhere.

 

The Russian lever pullers are cheeky bastards, they really are. Bitching about the evils of the West even though they've availed themselves of all its trappings while owning half of London, Monaco and Brighton Beach. 

 

Their state has murdered a British citizen on British soil with chemical weapons. Yeah but Hilary's emails. Get fucked. 

 

Bollocks to the apologists on here too, turps-swilling, suet-faced simpletons.

[Captain Howdy]

24 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Good to know that Chomsky has decided to join us out here on the Russian troll farm.

Chomsky is a bellend 

[SasaS]

24 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Good to know that Chomsky has decided to join us out here on the Russian troll farm.

 

Is his surname Chomson? No, it isn't. It's Chomsky. Need I say more?

 

Should have used chastity belt as a metaphor instead, it works better.

I am tired of all this yes but NATO / coup / Nazis arguments. It's basically war of independence which did not happen in 91/92 and I hope they win it and get read of Russian imperialism once and for all.

[Red Phoenix]

35 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I am tired of all this yes but NATO / coup / Nazis arguments. It's basically war of independence which did not happen in 91/92 and I hope they win it and get read of Russian imperialism once and for all.

 

I hope Ukraine get rid of Russian forces/imperialism too. I'm also tired of arguing in here lately so I'll leave it at that.

[Gnasher]

The war appears to be turning more gruesome by the day, their are some shocking videos of apparent war crimes by both sides on twitter. I dread to think whats going on in places surrounded by Russian troops like Mariupol, 

 

 

[stringvest]

4 hours ago, Strontium said:

 

Quite funny, because nobody answers more questions than me, because nobody gets asked more questions than me.

A fitting epitaph.  Get it chiselled onto marble now, before some other cunt like Jeremy Paxman or John Humphries snaffles it

[Strontium]

5 minutes ago, stringvest said:

A fitting epitaph.  Get it chiselled onto marble now, before some other cunt like Jeremy Paxman or John Humphries snaffles it

 

I've already decided that my epitaph is going to say "He made the world a better place".

[Rico1304]

9 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

The war appears to be turning more gruesome by the day, their are some shocking videos of apparent war crimes by both sides on twitter. I dread to think whats going on in places surrounded by Russian troops like Mariupol, 

 

 

Both sides?  Anyone looking at this and thinking ‘both sides’ is a cunt. 

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Both sides?  Anyone looking at this and thinking ‘both sides’ is a cunt. 

If you can't understand how both sides are capable of war crimes you're a fucking idiot. 

[TheHowieLama]

45 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

I hope Ukraine get rid of Russian forces/imperialism too. I'm also tired of arguing in here lately so I'll leave it at that.

What exactly are you arguing for? 

[cochyn]

7 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

If you can't understand how both sides are capable of war crimes you're a fucking idiot. 

But in the real world where nothing is black and white, there is such a thing as perspective: In the context of invasion of a sovereign state, mass slaughter of civilians, documented ethnic cleansing and enforced repatriation, indiscriminate targeting of civilian areas, mass rape and probable genocide - which is in addition to all the war shit. Offiing a few of the offenders by defending forces - whilst unpalatable - is small fucking beer indeed. 

 

Anyway, good to know you're using your keyboard to good effect in flagging badness towards the aggressor in all this. 

 

Fucking quisling.

[Rico1304]

6 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

If you can't understand how both sides are capable of war crimes you're a fucking idiot. 

Again, both sides.  I’d say any invader in a country is fair game.  Blowing them up when they are asleep - couldn’t give a fucking shit.  If one is murdered in cold blood when injured then the perpetrator should face Ukrainian justice.  Any Russian killing anyone as part of an invading force should face a charge of war crime.  

[TheHowieLama]

10 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

If you can't understand how both sides are capable of war crimes you're a fucking idiot. 

What the hell do you know about being an idiot?

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, cochyn said:

But in the real world where nothing is black and white, there is such a thing as perspective: In the context of invasion of a sovereign state, mass slaughter of civilians, documented ethnic cleansing and enforced repatriation, indiscriminate targeting of civilian areas, mass rape and probable genocide. Offiing a few of the offenders by defending forces - whilst unpalatable - is small fucking beer indeed.    

 

You are not allowed to murder captured prisoners of war, its a war crime. If you disagree with it that's your opinion but that's the law and if it wasn't in place a lot British soldiers on overseas missions could possibly have been executed.

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Again, both sides.  I’d say any invader in a country is fair game.  Blowing them up when they are asleep - couldn’t give a fucking shit.  If one is murdered in cold blood when injured then the perpetrator should face Ukrainian justice.  Any Russian killing anyone as part of an invading force should face a charge of war crime.  

That's your opinion it's still against international law of warfare, if you execute prisoners it's a war crime.

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

What the hell do you know about being an idiot?

I could always ask you.