Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Gnasher]

9 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

so why didnt they do it before we left the eu?

 

It's up to the government of the time. As it should be. Its the wrong decision but its a decision made by the government. The government make lots of decisions, most of them bad but uncomfortable as it is that's what they're elected for. Labour or another Home Secretary can overturn the decision if they see fit Its that simple. Our membership or non membership of the EU is pretty much irrelevant in this instance. 

[Arniepie]

Just now, Gnasher said:

 

It's up to the government of the time. As it should be. Its the wrong decision but its a decision made by the government. The government make lots of decisions, most of them bad but uncomfortable as it is that's what they're elected for. Labour or another Home Secretary can overturn the decision if they say fit. Its that simple. 

so its just a complete coincidence that they are bringing these ridiculous ruilings in.after we left the eu?

 

gotcha

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

 

Because that would give a lie to the claims that we couldn't make our own laws.

 

We certainly couldn't have abolished VAT, which is what we should have done the day after leaving. 

[Rushies tash]

Just now, Gnasher said:

 

We certainly couldn't have abolished VAT, which is what we should have done the day after leaving. 

 

Why?

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

so its just a complete coincidence that they are bringing these ridiculous ruilings in.after we left the eu?

 

gotcha

 

It's been a while since we left the EU, it's not yesterday. The reason for these rulings is because a desperate government is making desperate decisions to appease desperate people. This is all on the government, they're to blame, not us leaving the EU. 

[Rushies tash]

Just now, Gnasher said:

 

It's been a while since we left the EU, it's not yesterday. The reason for these rulings is because a desperate government is making desperate decisions to appease desperate people. This is all on the government, they're to blame, not us leaving the EU. 

 

Is this a rule they could have enacted before we left? They were in charge at the time.

[Fugitive]

Gnasher, the Brexit bellend.

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

 

Why?

 

Because VAT is a negative tax which unfairly targets the poor. Its abolition would increase growth thus soon more than accounting for the loss of income felt by the treasury  

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, Rushies tash said:

 

Is this a rule they could have enacted before we left? They were in charge at the time.

 

Why couldn't they? 

[Rushies tash]

Just now, Gnasher said:

 

Why couldn't they? 

 

Thats what I'm asking you.

 

And are there studies which show that scrapping VAT would be affordable? It raises £162b at the moment. That's quite the black hole.

[Gnasher]

9 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

 

Thats what I'm asking you.

 

And are there studies which show that scrapping VAT would be affordable? It raises £162b at the moment. That's quite the black hole.

 

It certainly would leave a black hole, agreed. It would need to be replaced by more progressive taxation, although the almost certain spike in growth should account for most of the shortfall. Flat rate taxes hit the poorest hardest and are on the whole unfair. 

[Rushies tash]

6 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

It certainly would leave a black hole, agreed. It would need to be replaced by more progressive taxation, although the almost certain spike in growth should account for most of the shortfall. Flat rate taxes hit the poorest hardest and are on the whole unfair. 

 

Ah yes, because people love paying tax, and are never looking at ways to avoid paying it. VAT is charged at source. So, any studies on what would happen if we scrapped it?

 

Also, could we have changed immigration rules whilst still in the EU?

[Gnasher]

14 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

 

Ah yes, because people love paying tax, and are never looking at ways to avoid paying it. VAT is charged at source. So, any studies on what would happen if we scrapped it?

 

Also, could we have changed immigration rules whilst still in the EU?

 

The rate of VAT goes up (the first thing Rachel Reeves bessie mate Thatcher did on gaining power in 79 was to increase it after promising not to throughout that election campaign, it resulted in the economy going into a tailspin) and it very occasionally goes down. VAT has already been abolished on certain items. Their are many other ways of raising taxes, wealth tax, levelling up capital gains, a windfall tax on banks and energy companies and a more progressive tax system in general just a few. 

 

[Rushies tash]

12 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

The rate of VAT goes up (the first thing Rachel Reeves bessie mate Thatcher did on gaining power in 79 was to increase it after promising not to throughout that election campaign, it resulted in the economy going into a tailspin) and it very occasionally goes down. VAT has already been abolished on certain items. Their are many other ways of raising taxes, wealth tax, levelling up capital gains, a windfall tax on banks and energy companies and a more progressive tax system in general just a few. 

 

 

Yes, but if Labour said they were going to abolish VAT but raise income taxes, all the public would see would be "Labour raise taxes". Besides which, loopholes would be found to help the very wealthy squirrel their money away as usual. I'm not sure you'd cover the lost £162b anyway.

 

Oh and, for a third time, could the government have enacted their immigration rules before we left the EU?

[Rushies tash]

I'll answer it for you:

 

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/we-can-control-eu-migration-we-just-havent-done-it/

 

[Gnasher]

19 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

I'll answer it for you:

 

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/we-can-control-eu-migration-we-just-havent-done-it/

 

 

Why be glib? What's that got to do with VAT. What point are you trying to make? Their is nothing in that article that's not common knowledge. 

[Rushies tash]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Why be glib? What's that got to do with VAT. What point are you trying to make? Their is nothing in that article that's not common knowledge. 

 

I wasn't being glib. A couple of us asked about Cleverley introducing immigration rules and the point was he (or his predecessors) could have done this at any point since 2010. Doing it now implies it's down to Brexit freedoms when the reality suggests differently. It's my fault too, I suppose, for putting two points in the same posts.

[Arniepie]

15 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Why be glib? What's that got to do with VAT. What point are you trying to make? Their is nothing in that article that's not common knowledge. 

because you said the immigration controls were nothing to do with brexit?

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

 

I wasn't being glib. A couple of us asked about Cleverley introducing immigration rules and the point was he (or his predecessors) could have done this at any point since 2010. Doing it now implies it's down to Brexit freedoms when the reality suggests differently. It's my fault too, I suppose, for putting two points in the same posts.

 

No it's OK I should've answered the other point. Cleverly is imo just sucking up to the Tory right wing nutjobs. Its a desperate ploy by a desperate party to give the impression they're controlling immigration. It's a bone headed decision by a bone headed government which will soon be proved to be boneheaded when a care system in desperate need of staff loses workers they cannot afford to lose  Its another example of a party which is split beyond repair. 

[TheHowieLama]

Its another example of a party which is split beyond repair. 

 

 

One could say Brexit broke them.

[Rushies tash]

11 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

No it's OK I should've answered the other point. Cleverly is imo just sucking up to the Tory right wing nutjobs. Its a desperate ploy by a desperate party to give the impression they're controlling immigration. It's a bone headed decision by a bone headed government which will soon be proved to be boneheaded when a care system in desperate need of staff loses workers they cannot afford to lose  Its another example of a party which is split beyond repair. 

 

The care system had plenty of staff before, well, you know...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/17/shortfall-of-330000-workers-in-uk-due-to-brexit-say-thinktanks

 

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, Arniepie said:

because you said the immigration controls were nothing to do with brexit?

 

The government has always tried to impose Immigration contols, they are after all the government. Both Conservative and Labour. I remember  James Callaghan imposing a two tier immigration system. Immigration is an issue throughout Europe. Immigration has risen since we left the EU, So what?

 

 

The latest Cleverly nonsense has more to do with James Cleverly and the desicions of our government than anything or anyone else. The government must be accountable for desicions made. You can't simply blame everything on our non membership of the EU. 

[Gnasher]

17 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

 

The care system had plenty of staff before, well, you know...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/17/shortfall-of-330000-workers-in-uk-due-to-brexit-say-thinktanks

 

 

True. Bad planning by the government. They had the time to put a system in place, they didn't bother. A national living wage would have been a massive help. Welcoming workers from outside the EU would also have helped. This banning of workers families will not help at all. Reeks of desperation.

[bossy]

Or we could have stayed in the EU and had freedom of movement. For us along with other EU nationals. Well established travel links and systems.

 

On VAT, the minimum VAT rate when we were in the EU was 15% so we could have reduced it by 5%, and since 2022 EU members have greater control over the VAT rate they choose. There were always concessions toward individual countries who wanted to charge less VAT on certain goods. EU membership did not drive the VAT our government’s charge. Let’s hope the workers open their eyes eh and vote in a government that will reduce it…

[Gnasher]

I'm with the Barry Andrews.

 

Ursula Von der Nazi, the head of EU is a cunt. She's possibly one of the most evil people on this earth. 

 

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0403/1441536-barry-andrews-gaza/

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/05/ursula-von-der-leyen-markus-pieper-european-commission-president-re-election

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/05/spain-ireland-eu-critics-israel-warfare-gaza