Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Strontium]

What this whole discussion, and many more like it, prove is that you can never engage a leftie or a diehard liberal in reasoned discussion

 

Yes, that's because you're incapable of reasoned argument.

 

Have you even made one single claim that has any grounding in reality or fact? Seriously, just one.

[thechap]

FFS. 

 

Farage is the leader of the UK Independent Party a party which has stolen the ground of the likes of the BNP and the National Front and now people are denying he is a racist despite his Party's only policy being to get out of the EU based purely on its Immigration Policy. 

 

How is this twat not a racist? 

No idea how anybody on here can expect to be taken seriously when they are showing videos featuring the opinions of McKenzie and defending Farage from being called a racist. Surreal.

 

You are so convinced he is a racist so it must be easy for you to be able to prove this.  Tell you what, I'll make it easier for you.  I won't even ask you to prove it to the standard where you would be satisfied of not losing your house at a libel case.  Prove it to the level where, say, a book-reading club in an area that voted Leave would be convinced by your arguments.

[thechap]

The vile part comes when you think it's acceptable to allow people into this country on a temporary basis to contribute towards the wealth of this country and then, when their "utility" has been exhausted, you want to kick them back out again.

.

 

Name me any large economy that does not grant temporary work visas.  Name someone who refused to take up a temporary work visa because it made them feel like chattel.

[Sputnik1]

This Completely Batshit Week In British Politics, Explained For Americans

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukebailey/the-crisis-explained-maybe?utm_term=.aldLJZZMK#.jcBKzDDov

[Boss]

Ah, it's goalpost moving time.

 

You claimed I "dehumanise the working classes", then when I challenge you, it turns out you're talking not about the working classes, but "working class areas that won the referendum".

 

And even that is untrue, because even if you accept that references to mouthbreathers and cretins constitutes "dehumanisation" (a real stretch), my words referred to ALL Leave voters, not just the working class ones.

 

Come back when you can argue honestly.

 

 

Section, your most irritating trait is the way you continually defend the narrow-mindedness of the white working class and underclass.

 

I hope things won't be as bad as you think, but having seen the oxygen thieves who are now going to take over the reins of Britain, and the oxygen thieves who put them there, I can well understand pessimism.

 

No surprises, it turns out that the plebs are shite

 

Fucking Leave cunts, I hope the Tories skin you alive and turn you into handbags

 

Yeah, it's cos they are fucking wools. Let's just say the lions wouldn't be fucking hungary once I'd fed them every Leave voter in Knowsley.

 

Thanks to millions of quacking spastics who should have been strangled at birth

 

The best slogan the Leave campaign never used: "It's time this country started putting its own scroungers first!"

 

I feel sick. This could be our 9/11.

 

 

Have you not repeatedly made death threats towards leave voters?

Have you not implied that this referendum is our 9/11?

Have you not called leave voters plebs and specifically expressed irritation at sticking up for the white working class and the underclass?

Have you not implied leave voters are scroungers?

[RoboRiise]

My mate Mckenzie? Well you're not getting any bites out of me on that one!

 

Fuck me it's getting ugly and bitter in here now isn't it? All from the remain side I may add!

 

You can check back on here in 2050 if you're still a member and you won't see me posting anything that McKenzie is involved in.  If you're comfortable with doing that fine.  I wouldn't be.  I'm not trying to get a rise out of you over it, that 'your mate McKenzie' comment was just a loose way of referring to the fact that you'd suggested people watch a video in which he features.  I can see how you'd assume there was more to it in the context of this discussion though, perhaps I should have worded that better.

 

The really funny thing though is that if you missed it, he's actually come out himself now admitting to 'buyer's remorse' so not only would I not be convinced by his arguments, turns out he wasn't even convinced by them himself!  I mentioned that on the day he said it but didn't link the article because it was him - I saw his comments reported elsewhere.

 

My comments about Farage's racism and the racism of a significant proportion of their party activists including a named MEP is from direct personal experience though.  That is why I can't take the People's Stockbroker seriously.  Well that and the fact that he's a chortling fucking imbecile who looks like an extra on The Simpsons.

[VladimirIlyich]

You are so convinced he is a racist so it must be easy for you to be able to prove this.  Tell you what, I'll make it easier for you.  I won't even ask you to prove it to the standard where you would be satisfied of not losing your house at a libel case.  Prove it to the level where, say, a book-reading club in an area that voted Leave would be convinced by your arguments.

 

Your so called 'reasoned argument' features defending sub human scumbags such as Kelvin Mackenzie and Nigel Farage and you are asking me prove my case.

 

Reality has left the planet and flown to mars.

[thechap]

You're incredible. You were calling someone a racist only yesterday for mentioning 'white people'.

 

 

Mate - I responded to this in an earlier post.

[VladimirIlyich]

Yes, that's because you're incapable of reasoned argument.

 

Have you even made one single claim that has any grounding in reality or fact? Seriously, just one.

When you have supported a campaign based on nothing but scare tactics and lies its pretty much impossible to put forward an argument based on anything to do with reality.

 

Defending Mackenzie and Farage on a Liverpool FC website is something I thought I would never ever see.

[thechap]

Your so called 'reasoned argument' features defending sub human scumbags such as Kelvin Mackenzie and Nigel Farage and you are asking me prove my case.

 

Reality has left the planet and flown to mars.

 

I have never defended Kelvin Mackenzie.

 

If Farage is so obvious a racist you MUST be able to readily post obvious proof...

[RoboRiise]

They didn't systematically lie about the NHS thing. They said they COULD spend £350m each week saved from being in the EU on the NHS. That's not a promise that's a suggestion. If they said we WILL spend £350m a week on the NHS then that's a promise. As it is Gove has promised the NHS an extra £100m per week, which is an extra £5.2b every year, so nearly a third of the money we save has been pledged to the NHS.

 

1. By 2020.

2. If Gove wins the leadership.

3. If you believe him.

 

Nothing you have ever posted on here gives me the slightest inkling that you are in fact stupid enough to believe him.

 

I can just about believe that an extra 100m a week may find its way into the healthhcare sector in some way, but if it does it will be going to the private companies who carve what we currently refer to the NHS as up between them, in line with what the current health secretary has previously said he sees as the best way forward.

 

Also this does in fact look very much like a clear pledge to give all of the £350m to the NHS

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

There's that spurious allegation again. It surely has to be the most used word in these forums.

Not spurious at all. To deny the racism behind that poster is a bit like Chubby Brown, holding a golliwog and singing "it's just a fucking doll".

[AngryOfTuebrook]

That you don't see 52% as 'winning' an election/referendum and 48% as 'losing' said election/referendum is weird.

 

What a truly bizarre thing you've said there...

I see the future of the UK and Europe as the important point.

[Red Phoenix]

I do know that Cameron submitted reform proposals to the EU. I don't think he got everything he wanted, and I don't know what reforms the opposition proposed or would have proposed had remain won, because it didn't happen. There will be a legal untangling of EU laws that I don't envy the people whose burden that will be to carry. Then there's the uncertainty for expats in EU countries and immigrants in the UK while we all wait to see what happens with free movement of people. We've only just seen a glimpse of what the uncertainty around leaving and Article 50 has done to the economy.

 

Yeah can imagine it'll be a lot of messing around fully leaving, but at this stage it's obvious that some are angling for the 2nd referendum, and the demand is probably just going to increase. So maybe none of this will even happen and all of the arguing will have been for nothing. I still have huge reservations about our ability to stay in and make big reforms as well, and still haven't seen any real idea of how that'd be done. Am not going to keep going on about that part though as there's enough arguing in here already.

[VladimirIlyich]

I have never defended Kelvin Mackenzie.

 

If Farage is so obvious a racist you MUST be able to readily post obvious proof...

Give it a rest will you,you are embarrassing yourself.

 

For the record the remain campaign had Cameron and Osbourne supporting it,two massive cunts and racists by default as they part of the the upper classes and Tory party who have 'learnt to hide their inherent racism behind more creative language.' Blair was also behind the remain campaign and he too is a massive cunt who was on my side of the debate. I am still not going to defend them in the way you are defending the racist Farage though.

[Red Phoenix]

This Completely Batshit Week In British Politics, Explained For Americans

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukebailey/the-crisis-explained-maybe?utm_term=.aldLJZZMK#.jcBKzDDov

Repped, purely because I loved the tweet with Nancy from The Craft in there (this one : https://twitter.com/hayleycampbell/status/748104976384331776 )

[FanchesterCity]

http://video.dailymail.co.uk/video/bc/rtmp_uds/1418450360/2014/05/16/1418450360_3570523410001_farage-.mp4

 

Dodge the question Farage at his best (worst)

[FanchesterCity]

You are so convinced he is a racist so it must be easy for you to be able to prove this.  Tell you what, I'll make it easier for you.  I won't even ask you to prove it to the standard where you would be satisfied of not losing your house at a libel case.  Prove it to the level where, say, a book-reading club in an area that voted Leave would be convinced by your arguments.

 

You do know that you only have to reasonably hold the belief for it not to be libellous don't you?

Furthermore, the plaintiff has to demonstrate they have suffered significant financial loss as a result.

This is a result of amendments to the 2013 Defamation Act - which was not via an EU directive, but our media controlled government.

 

Nobody is losing their house over calling Farage a racist.

[Boss]

1. By 2020.

2. If Gove wins the leadership.

3. If you believe him.

 

Nothing you have ever posted on here gives me the slightest inkling that you are in fact stupid enough to believe him.

 

I can just about believe that an extra 100m a week may find its way into the healthhcare sector in some way, but if it does it will be going to the private companies who carve what we currently refer to the NHS as up between them, in line with what the current health secretary has previously said he sees as the best way forward.

 

Also this does in fact look very much like a clear pledge to give all of the £350m to the NHS

 

 

 

That poster behind Boris is a directive and it's also a blatant lie so you won't get any arguments from me. That was wrong and inexcusable. 

 

Gove has promised £100m a week to the NHS by 2020, do i believe him? No, but i don't believe any Tory. Especially one who is as power hungry and machiavellian as Gove, not least after what he did to the education system. May has pledged nothing, so that money will just disappear into the financial sector with her in charge, which seems the most likely outcome.

 

However if the pledge is not fulfilled and we do invoke article 50 under a May government, which itself is questionable it'll open up the possibility for Labour to campaign to honour the pledge made by Gove in their manifesto for 2020.

[Red Phoenix]

Maybe the 350 million a week to the NHS idea didn't go ahead because it was.....

 

*drum roll*

 

....only advisory.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

What this whole discussion, and many more like it, prove is that you can never engage a leftie or a diehard liberal in reasoned discussion, but especially the lefties. They will shout at you, scream at you, abuse you, try to belittle you, insult you, move the goalposts, accuse you of any kind of -ism that suits their agenda, obfuscate the issue, change the subject, concentrate on any minor point you may make to distract from the major point, and best of all refuse to accept reality when it stares them in the face or bites them on the arse as it has with the referendum.

 

If anyone wants to hold hard left views then fine, however try to discuss anything with them that goes against their doctrine and they turn rabid.

 

It's really very, very funny.

Nobody has insulted you, you fucking cock.

[njackets]

NOBODY in here has defended Kelvin Mckenzie!! It's pretty fucking disgusting that he's being used to score points in this argument though.

[VladimirIlyich]

Who posted a video which featured an opinion from him? Whoever did lost all credibility on an LFC website,and correctly so.

[PestiRed]

Who posted a video which featured an opinion from him? Whoever did lost all credibility on an LFC website,and correctly so.

Not just featuring him but he's the main talking head on it - the one that puts forward all the arguments used in the video. Talks even more than the climate change denier and the gay-hater Melanie Phillips

 

Should be a banning offence

[njackets]

Nobody was voting for a leave government, leave campagne was representing nothing more than a view that we should leave the EU.

 

Politician in miss leading the public Shocker! There's nothing really to see here.

 

The biggest outrage of the campagne for me was the government being allowed to spend tax payers money on the making and distrubution of EU propaganda leaflets.