Islamic Positive Thread

[Bobby Hundreds]

Religion cmon. Big men in the sky, sending down prophets and books. I find it totally bizarre in a day where science in fact fuck the word science in a day where people have investigated and found truths that contradict basic tenements of the word of god. A world where not one biblical miracle of any kind has ever been witnessed on such a level other than in these books of rules. I find it bizarre that adults that ask questions of the world can believe any organise religion. The only truth I see is we are far too small to understand something so big and with a knowledge at a level so far ahead of any civilisation before its obscene to believe books written thousands of years ago should dictate our understandings today. grow the fuck up,have faith by any means believe in some kind of path but these religions fuck off its shite. It's brainwashing.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I don't think that's up for debate, of course there are. But huge fucking chunks are diabolical.

 

Don't you see the irony in having a poster quoting a nice bit to show how lovely the book is, when the very next verse is horrible? Please tell me you aren't that crazy.

 

The one thing most of the various strands of Islam agree on is that the Quran is the perfect and unalterable word of God.So the bad bits are just as relevant as the good bits.

If that were true, it would be ironic.  Obviously.

 

Are you genuinely too blinkered or to thick to see the point of that poster and the relevance of the quote?  And why not look at the next two verses, instead of cherry-picking?  The message of the poster then becomes,

"Dear ISIS, God says you shouldn't murder people.  In killing 100,000 Muslims, you have waged war against God's people and are therefore due some horrible punishments.  If you repent now, you will not be punished."

 

 

(Having said that, it should be perfectly clear that the target audience for the poster is non-Muslim America.)

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Wtf? Then why's it there then? The poster is effective (may be more effective) without the quote. The quote is saying 'look, we are nice as the book tells us to be nice'.

Honestly, I'm sure I've seen you form sentences and all sorts.  I don't believe you're really this thick.

[Strontium]

Are you genuinely too blinkered or to thick to see the point of that poster and the relevance of the quote?  And why not look at the next two verses, instead of cherry-picking?

 

The poster itself is cherry-picking. That's rico's entire point. You can cherry-pick whatever bits you want to justify almost anything, which is why it's fallacious for those sponsoring the poster to call Isis false Muslims while calling themselves "actual Muslims" on the basis that you each cherry-pick different bits

[moof]

It's just a billboard. Who gives a fuck if peaceful muslims want to condemn Isis? They're taking an unfair amount of abuse in America so can we forgive some of them for wanting to reach out and distance themselves from extremist cunts?

[Rico1304]

Honestly, I'm sure I've seen you form sentences and all sorts. I don't believe you're really this thick.

Christ

[Rico1304]

The poster itself is cherry-picking. That's rico's entire point. You can cherry-pick whatever bits you want to justify almost anything, which is why it's fallacious for those sponsoring the poster to call Isis false Muslims while calling themselves "actual Muslims" on the basis that you each cherry-pick different bits

 

Cheers.

[Rico1304]

It's just a billboard. Who gives a fuck if peaceful muslims want to condemn Isis? They're taking an unfair amount of abuse in America so can we forgive some of them for wanting to reach out and distance themselves from extremist cunts?

I have no issue with the poster, but can't you see the irony of the quote? In fact, don't bother.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

The poster itself is cherry-picking. That's rico's entire point. You can cherry-pick whatever bits you want to justify almost anything, which is why it's fallacious for those sponsoring the poster to call Isis false Muslims while calling themselves "actual Muslims" on the basis that you each cherry-pick different bits

I'm not convinced ISIS can cherry pick anything to justify what they do: killing 100,000 Muslims; kidnap, rape and murder; drinking and drug abuse; not actually being well-versed in the Quran or praying; etc.

 

I can't be arsed going through the Quran to find the passages justifying the way ISIS act.  If you and Rico want to throw some links up then, please do so, I can't wait to read them.

 

https://theintercept.com/2014/09/26/isis-islamic/

In the eyes of most Muslims the Islamic State is as “Islamic” as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is “Democratic”.

[Strontium]

It's just a billboard. Who gives a fuck if peaceful muslims want to condemn Isis? They're taking an unfair amount of abuse in America so can we forgive some of them for wanting to reach out and distance themselves from extremist cunts?

 

I absolute support them distancing themselves from and condeming Isis, that much is a terrific thing.

 

The problem arises when they then attempt to justify that condemnation with the same thing that isis themselves use to justify their atrocities.

 

At that point it becomes as much a self-justificaton for their own strain of the religion as it does a condemnation of Isis.

 

Criticism of Isis should be rooted in the fact that their behaviour is inhumane, barbaric and evil - not in the assertion that they're cherry-picking the wrong bits of the Qu'ran.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I have no issue with the poster, but can't you see the irony of the quote? In fact, don't bother.

We clearly can't.  Please elucidate.

[Strontium]

I'm not convinced ISIS can cherry pick anything to justify what they do: killing 100,000 Muslims; kidnap, rape and murder; drinking and drug abuse; not actually being well-versed in the Quran or praying; etc.

 

 

Well, this is largely why I prefer to go back to the source. And quite honestly, Muhammad's behaviour is nothing to shout from the rooftops about. Very, very hard to claim Islam as a creed of non-violence considering the amount of pillaging and murder he indulged in.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I absolute support them distancing themselves from and condeming Isis, that much is a terrific thing.

 

The problem arises when they then attempt to justify that condemnation with the same thing that isis themselves use to justify their atrocities.

 

At that point it becomes as much a self-justificaton for their own strain of the religion as it does a condemnation of Isis.

 

Criticism of Isis should be rooted in the fact that their behaviour is inhumane, barbaric and evil - not in the assertion that they're cherry-picking the wrong bits of the Qu'ran.

That is the criticism!  Although "Hey ISIS, you suck" is a pithier way of phrasing it (especially on a billboard aimed at non-Muslim America).

 

ISIS are cunts.  Hundreds of millions of Muslims around the world accept that the central message of the Quran is "don't be a cunt".  It's a message summed up in 5:32, so why not quote it, as an example that the Quran doesn't support the shit that ISIS get up to?

 

ISIS are not cherry-picking; they are flouting the fundamental principles of the Islam and calling themselves "Islamic" as they do so.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Well, this is largely why I prefer to go back to the source. And quite honestly, Muhammad's behaviour is nothing to shout from the rooftops about. Very, very hard to claim Islam as a creed of non-violence considering the amount of pillaging and murder he indulged in.

Like I say, please post links to the bits that say "Muslims should behave the way ISIS do".

[Rico1304]

That is the criticism!  Although "Hey ISIS, you suck" is a pithier way of phrasing it (especially on a billboard aimed at non-Muslim America).

 

ISIS are cunts.  Hundreds of millions of Muslims around the world accept that the central message of the Quran is "don't be a cunt".  It's a message summed up in 5:32, so why not quote it, as an example that the Quran doesn't support the shit that ISIS get up to?

 

ISIS are not cherry-picking; they are flouting the fundamental principles of the Islam and calling themselves "Islamic" as they do so.

Are they? Wow? Just a massive coincidence then. Hold on whilst I find their latest justification.

[Rico1304]

Interesting read

 

https://concretemilkshake.wordpress.com/2016/08/05/spelling-out-the-obvious/

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Are they? Wow? Just a massive coincidence then. Hold on whilst I find their latest justification.

Did you see the quote above about the Democratic People's Republic of Korea?

 

Do you genuinely believe that Korea is Democratic?  Do you react with a witless, snarky "just a massive coincidence then" when people point out that most democrats don't consider Korea to be democratic?

 

(I'd be disappointed if you don't.  If I remember rightly, you were recently trumpeting the fact that you like to be consistent.)

[Rico1304]

Here you go.

 

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/isis-wrote-six-reasons-listicle-11690188

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Interesting read

 

https://concretemilkshake.wordpress.com/2016/08/05/spelling-out-the-obvious/

Not particularly.

 

We have testimonies of suicide bombers giving no Quranic justification for their actions.  We have ISIS using a misinterpretation of the bits of the Quran which describe the fighting against one specific pagan sect and (in direct contradiction to the Quran) generalising it to cover Christians, Jews, other Muslims... whoever they feel like killing.  We have a cartoon - a cartoon! - used as if it's an argument-clincher.  And we have an anecdote about slave-owning Christians being appalled at a slaver using his religion to try to justify his actions.

 

Tedious and one-eyed.

[Rico1304]

Did you see the quote above about the Democratic People's Republic of Korea?

 

Do you genuinely believe that Korea is Democratic?  Do you react with a witless, snarky "just a massive coincidence then" when people point out that most democrats don't consider Korea to be democratic?

 

(I'd be disappointed if you don't.  If I remember rightly, you were recently trumpeting the fact that you like to be consistent.)

You can't believe what you've written, it's impossible.

 

From what I can gather you are 'protective ' of Islam as in the uk Muslims are a minority and generally sticking up for a minority is the right thing to do. But this minority, when in the majority (and I'm talking the religious countries, not secular countries with a Muslim majority) is fucking hateful. It's impossible to deny.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Here you go.

 

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/isis-wrote-six-reasons-listicle-11690188

So ISIS themselves can't "cherry pick" any verses from the Quran to support what they do?

 

There's not one word of scripture in their six reasons why they hate "you".

 

1. Because you are disbelievers

"We hate you, first and foremost, because you are disbelievers; you reject the oneness of Allah – whether you realize it or not – by making partners for Him in worship, you blaspheme against Him, claiming that He has a son, you fabricate lies against His prophets and messengers, and you indulge in all manner of devilish practices."

2 . Because you are liberal

"We hate you because your secular, liberal societies permit the very things that Allah has prohibited while banning many of the things He has permitted, a matter that doesn’t concern you because you Christian disbelief and paganism 32 separate between religion and state, thereby granting supreme authority to your whims and desires via the legislators you vote into power."

3. Because some of you are atheist

"In the case of the atheist fringe, we hate you and wage war against you because you disbelieve in the existence of your Lord and Creator."

4. For your crimes against Islam

"We hate you for your crimes against Islam and wage war against you to punish you for your transgressions against our religion."

5. For your crimes against Muslims

"We hate you for your crimes against the Muslims; your drones and fighter jets bomb, kill, and maim our people around the world, and your puppets in the usurped lands of the Muslims oppress, torture, and wage war against anyone who calls to the truth."

6. For invading our lands

"We hate you for invading our lands and fight you to repel you and drive you out. As long as there is an inch of territory left for us to reclaim, jihad will continue to be a personal obligation on every single Muslim."

[Rico1304]

Not particularly.

 

We have testimonies of suicide bombers giving no Quranic justification for their actions.  We have ISIS using a misinterpretation of the bits of the Quran which describe the fighting against one specific pagan sect and (in direct contradiction to the Quran) generalising it to cover Christians, Jews, other Muslims... whoever they feel like killing.  We have a cartoon - a cartoon! - used as if it's an argument-clincher.  And we have an anecdote about slave-owning Christians being appalled at a slaver using his religion to try to justify his actions.

 

Tedious and one-eyed.

As a matter of interest what exactly would a religiously inspired terrorist have to do before you'd admit he was religiously inspired?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

You can't believe what you've written, it's impossible.

 

From what I can gather you are 'protective ' of Islam as in the uk Muslims are a minority and generally sticking up for a minority is the right thing to do. But this minority, when in the majority (and I'm talking the religious countries, not secular countries with a Muslim majority) is fucking hateful. It's impossible to deny.

You routinely equate Islam and all of its followers with the likes of ISIS.  

 

ISIS are spurned by hundreds of millions of Muslims, not least because they are so thoroughly un-Islamic.

[Rico1304]

You routinely equate Islam and all of its followers with the likes of ISIS.  

 

ISIS are spurned by hundreds of millions of Muslims, not least because they are so thoroughly un-Islamic.

Islamists and jihadis are the issue - said it loads of times.

 

Although moderate Muslims have some pretty shitty views on women, gays, aposty etc which is well evidence and needs addressing.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

As a matter of interest what exactly would a religiously inspired terrorist have to do before you'd admit he was religiously inspired?

I don't believe any terrorist has ever had one single motive.  People are complex.  Pretending that they're not is just silly.

 

Sometimes, a warped interpretation of a religion can lead someone to murder a priest or to set fire to a planned parenthood centre.  That doesn't mean that the religion itself (and, by extension, its followers) is unequivocally, irredeemably evil.

 

If someone followed a religion with a scripture that said "kill these people" and they then killed those people, that would look to me like an act of religious terrorism.  But, to the best of my knowledge, no religions say that.