Middle East Thread

[SasaS]

This is wrong if you check back. She said that the Aleppo medical association stated that there's around 200,000 or less left in east Aleppo. Around a quarter or more are terrorists and their families. The majority of the rest of them are civilians being held hostage. This is according to what she said from 5:00 onwards, because the people of Aleppo resisted the so-called revolution and have been paying for it ever since.

 

Many witness testimonies were given that stated how people in the western part had family in the east that were terrified of leaving, because if they did, other members of their family or friends would be murdered by the terrorists.

 

There's a list of things she's stated that can be proven wrong if you want to go about that though, and let us know if you can find anything that does that.

 

I'm not asking you to answer all of this, it's just a suggestion of where you could begin to go about proving her wrong. For example :

 

- Did the real Syrian Civil Defence get pushed aside by terrorists?

- Are people from different faiths living peacefully in Latakia that have fled terrorists?

- Have 90% of the population gone into government held areas for protection?

- Is there any reason why The White Helmets are justified in having around 100 million dollars (conservative estimate) given to them by governments and can we see what they're spending that figure on?

- Are parts of The White Helmets smuggling weapons in from Turkey?

- Are parts of The White Helmets sectarian and using weapons? (here for example.)

- Are the people in western Aleppo being bombarded by mortar fire from terrorists in the east and is this getting reported enough by western media? Or are they instead obsessed by regime change for no good reason?

- Are the media reporting on the war inside Syria properly, or is it mostly propaganda for Western interests?

 

You might find that the vast majority of what she's saying is correct. What could be slightly off is that you might have a tiny percentage of people fighting alongside terrorists that aren't actually terrorists. What they hope to achieve though alongside so many actual terrorists I have no idea. So yes, maybe that could be slightly wrong, but what about the rest of it? Can a lot of it be proven wrong? From what I've read on the situation so far, I don't think that's going to be very easy to do.

Jesus man, I am not taking sides for or against Assad here, I have no idea who White Helmets are and what the role of the Syrian Civil Defence is. What I do know is she sounds the same as Assad in a couple of those interviews, branding everyone who opposes his regime terrorist, which is what a threatened regime always does. It is pretty obvious this is not good guys versus bad guys, the regime wouldn't have to import foot soldiers from Lebanon and Iran and would overrun these terrorists a long time ago if it really did have such support of the entire Syrian people.

 

It's bizarre how quick you are to dismiss mainstream media as Western propaganda, but seem totally oblivious to propaganda discourse when it comes from someone else.

 

 

[Rico1304]

Jesus man, I am not taking sides for or against Assad here, I have no idea who White Helmets are and what the role of the Syrian Civil Defence is. What I do know is she sounds the same as Assad in a couple of those interviews, branding everyone who opposes his regime terrorist, which is what a threatened regime always does. It is pretty obvious this is not good guys versus bad guys, the regime wouldn't have to import foot soldiers from Lebanon and Iran and would overrun these terrorists a long time ago if it really did have such support of the entire Syrian people.

 

It's bizarre how quick you are to dismiss mainstream media as Western propaganda, but seem totally oblivious to propaganda discourse when it comes from someone else.

 

 

Careful, you'll be on the list.

[Strontium]

This about the trains has been disproved as a myth anyway.

 

You do realise that makes it more likely to be swallowed by Dennis, not less.

[dennis tooth]

Jesus man, I am not taking sides for or against Assad here, I have no idea who White Helmets are and what the role of the Syrian Civil Defence is. What I do know is she sounds the same as Assad in a couple of those interviews, branding everyone who opposes his regime terrorist, which is what a threatened regime always does. It is pretty obvious this is not good guys versus bad guys, the regime wouldn't have to import foot soldiers from Lebanon and Iran and would overrun these terrorists a long time ago if it really did have such support of the entire Syrian people.

 

It's bizarre how quick you are to dismiss mainstream media as Western propaganda, but seem totally oblivious to propaganda discourse when it comes from someone else.

 

 

Hey how come you call a government a 'regime'? An elected government at that. Isn't that a propaganda word?

You've used it unkowingly just parroting propaganda.

 

Did we rise up when the ira was bombing us?

They under attack from about 40 countries and about 40 western armed terror groups. Just for context.

Oh and shut up stronto at least they don't pay tuition fees in Syria.

You don't seem to know much on the situation I could show you us documents planning this year's before but you know less than stront.

[dennis tooth]

The trains was a flippant example in aware it's a myth but I was using to make a point off the top of my head.

[SasaS]

Well OK, government, if it bothers you so much.The elected government of the Assad dynasty. In the documentaries I've seen the opposition terrorists kept calling it the regime, so I guess I picked it up from them. It must be the anarchy loving rebel in me.

[SasaS]

The trains was a flippant example in aware it's a myth but I was using to make a point off the top of my head.

I know. And my reply was even more flippant.

[dennis tooth]

Well it don't bother me at all. It's you that's afflicted.

[dennis tooth]

I know. And my reply was even more flippant.

As long as you get me point that's sound.

[dennis tooth]

I'm no Assad fanboy but a people should be able to elect their government without fear of being bombed by the only superpower left because it hinders their geopolitical design.

We will be next if we elect Corbyn.

The Saudi's must not allow this man.

[SasaS]

I don't agree Russia is the only superpower left. There is still the US, and China will join shortly.

[dennis tooth]

Harhar yes becuase russia started this and werent invited.

 

 

 

How am I doing. Your quipery is beginning to work it's powers on me.

I'm convinced.

See, you should beleive in yourself more.

[SasaS]

I would also like to go on record as saying, before I am accused of various things, I always thought Bashir wasn't so bad and that I can totally see how his Mom made him take over after the brother was killed. He does look like someone who would have been much happier living in London with his hot Sunny wife and working as an opthamologist and I fully expected him to reform Syria given the chance (which, admittedly, I base only on his physical appearance and taste in music). I also liked that the country was secular and I wasn't too keen on the opposition from the beginning, especially as it was quickly hijacked by Islamists. If someone asked me, I would say, leave it alone.

 

What I don't think is that dissent was manufactured, or that Syria was not ruled with an iron fist as your typical Arab despotic regime and that once people saw the Assad grip crumbling, most of them didn't want change.  I think what is keeping Assad in power is fear from the Sunny Islamists the Alawites, Christian and other minorities must feel, and the rest is just different international players pursuing their own agendas, the US wanting Assad out completely after they pushed Syria out of Lebanon, Turkey and Gulf countries wanting Assad out, Saudi Arabia and Iran continuing their proxy war, Hezbollah defending their sponsor, Russia defending its ally etc. And the emergence of first Al Nusra, and then ISIS on top of that to make it a cluster fuck of all cluster fucks. I don't think anybody knows what to do with it anymore and would be more than happy to just walk away.

[Red Phoenix]

It's bizarre how quick you are to dismiss mainstream media as Western propaganda, but seem totally oblivious to propaganda discourse when it comes from someone else.

 

If Vanessa Beeley is pushing propaganda then that should become clear eventually. I think she's mostly right though, with maybe one or two natural errors here and there because she's Human and that happens in complex situations like this.

 

Reuters have just reported that France are trying to get another ceasefire sorted in east Aleppo. They say that the Syrian army command are also saying Humans in the eastern part of the city are being used as Human shields. They want to scale back air strikes so more can get out of there.

 

So ok, the Syrian army might be pushing propaganda there you could say, but also : the UN estimates that there's 275,000 in east Aleppo with half wanting to leave. Beeley said there were 200,000 and 150,000 wanted out. So the UN has 137,500 wanting out, Beeley has 150,000. Not a huge difference, and I don't think most of the other things she said will be far out either.

 

You could probably cross-check more of what she's saying from Blumenthal's recent reports as well.

[dennis tooth]

If Vanessa Beeley is pushing propaganda then that should become clear eventually. I think she's mostly right though, with maybe one or two natural errors here and there because she's Human and that happens in complex situations like this.

 

Reuters have just reported that France are trying to get another ceasefire sorted in east Aleppo. They say that the Syrian army command are also saying Humans in the eastern part of the city are being used as Human shields. They want to scale back air strikes so more can get out of there.

 

So ok, the Syrian army might be pushing propaganda there you could say, but also : the UN estimates that there's 275,000 in east Aleppo with half wanting to leave. Beeley said there were 200,000 and 150,000 wanted out. So the UN has 137,500 wanting out, Beeley has 150,000. Not a huge difference, and I don't think most of the other things she said will be far out either.

 

You could probably cross-check more of what she's saying from Blumenthal's recent reports as well.

No no far better just to project your thoughts on an entire population whilst having a brew in the UK and rubbish her efforts as one sided propaganda and making claim after claim after claim with no evidence.

Assad must reform secular Syria like ham or it's acceptable for us to train and arm terrorists slaughtering the civilians and go to world war3.

[dennis tooth]

[dennis tooth]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-04/doj-drops-charges-against-arms-dealer-who-threatened-expose-hillary-arming-islamic-e

[Strontium]

Jesus man, I am not taking sides for or against Assad here, I have no idea who White Helmets are and what the role of the Syrian Civil Defence is.

 

I didn't know who the White Helmets were, but I read in the paper today that they have a good chance of picking up tomorrow's Nobel Peace Prize. It turns out they are a volunteer force that rescues people from the rubble of destroyed buildings in Syria.

 

Quite why aiding the victims of Putin and Assad's aggression should be controversial is unclear to me.

[dennis tooth]

Haha

[Jairzinho]

I suppose even if they do have close links to Al Nusra it couldn't be a more ridiculous decision to award the Nobel Peace prize to them than it was to award it to Obama.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I'm currently reading a book by a New York Times journalist about Putin and the Russian involvement in Syria seems very similar to the second war with Chechnya.

 

Basically, label everybody in a particular vicinity a terrorist, bomb the shit out of everywhere including places inhabited by civilians and justify it by saying you were attacking terrorists, apply an ignorant and nonsensical approach of blanket denial to anything that looks bad and send diplomats and ministers for TV interviews to do the same, all in the knowledge that pretty much nobody can do fuck all about it.

[PestiRed]

I'm currently reading a book by a New York Times journalist about Putin and the Russian involvement in Syria seems very similar to the second war with Chechnya.

Basically, label everybody in a particular vicinity a terrorist, bomb the shit out of everywhere including places inhabited by civilians and justify it by saying you were attacking terrorists, apply an ignorant and nonsensical approach of blanket denial to anything that looks bad and send diplomats and ministers for TV interviews to do the same, all in the knowledge that pretty much nobody can do fuck all about it.

With minor tweaks you've got;

British in Dresden

Yanks in Cambodia

Israelis in Palestine

Etc etc

 

Why change a winning formula?

[dennis tooth]

I'm currently reading a book by a New York Times journalist about Putin and the Russian involvement in Syria seems very similar to the second war with Chechnya.

 

Basically, label everybody in a particular vicinity a terrorist, bomb the shit out of everywhere including places inhabited by civilians and justify it by saying you were attacking terrorists, apply an ignorant and nonsensical approach of blanket denial to anything that looks bad and send diplomats and ministers for TV interviews to do the same, all in the knowledge that pretty much nobody can do fuck all about it.

Are you referring to Russia or the USA?

I'm sure Obama is written about in books by Pravda journo authors too as well.

Usa killed 60 syrian civilians in air strikes just yesterday.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I'm clearly referring to Russia. Hence why it says "Russian"

 

Fucking hell.....

 

Whataboutery galore. I'm just making an observation. That Putin is a cunt.

[PestiRed]

U ok hun?