Gibraltar

[mattyq]

I see. You've now added (a) a claim about longevity to (b) your original claim about demographics. Meanwhile, you reject © a claim about proximity.

 

So, if an imperial power conquers a territory © anywhere on the planet, (a) holds onto it for long enough, and (b) forcibly (re)populates it in the desired fashion, then said territory becomes a legitimate possession? Yes?

 

I think you're ignoring what I take to be a crucial factor: the very fact of conquest and its ethico-political implications.

 

I'm not mate and i quite agree with it in the modern world.

Where it gets complicated is where do you draw the line?

300 years not long enough? How about 700 years? Gascony and Normandy were owned by the English crown then. Should the French give them back?

How about Latin America being given back to the Incas? Perhaps the American rebels should hand themselves back to the Crown as they were taken through conquest?

I reckon pretty much every square cm of land in the world has been conquered and re-conquered at some stage...such is life

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

Some politicos just want to watch the world burn.

There s enough lucky lucky men is southern Spain to launch another Moorish attack on Gib , and they can sell there watches to on the way in.

[Section_31]

I'm not mate and i quite agree with it in the modern world.

Where it gets complicated is where do you draw the line?

300 years not long enough? How about 700 years? Gascony and Normandy were owned by the English crown then. Should the French give them back?

How about Latin America being given back to the Incas? Perhaps the American rebels should hand themselves back to the Crown as they were taken through conquest?

I reckon pretty much every square cm of land in the world has been conquered and re-conquered at some stage...such is life

 

Also, let's not forget it's not Barcelona we're talking about here, it's a small mountain with a few pubs and a casino.

 

Genuinely, hand on heart, if the Spanish took over a sliver of shite on the end of Cornwall and made a success of the place I'd take my hat off to them.

 

Any Hispanic peoples talking about colonialism have got some balls, they're the reason half the Incas are now called Martinez, I always think that when I hear the exotically named Cristina Hernandez talking about colonialism in Argentina.

 

The reason England forged an empire in the first place was because its ships kept getting arseraped by the Spanish until Drake decided to give them a taste of their own medicine, Portsmouth was nothing more than a sleepy fishing village then until it dawned on blighty that a good defence was a good offence. Nobody has raped and plundered like the Spanish.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Section_31

[Sugar Ape]

It is a tiny place, you can walk from one end to the other in about 40 minutes. We had a look around the shops first day we got there which took about half an hour, checked out the 4 or 5 pubs by the casino and that's it. You're done.

 

There are still some decent things to do there like going up the rock to see the Monkeys or going to watch dolphins ( though I'd maybe give sightseeing in a boat around there a miss at the minute ) but the actual place is about the size of Aintree.

[VladimirIlyich]

Spain isnt even a country as we recognise it. Everybody outside of the Madrid area hates the cunts there and are very regionalistic?(if thats even a word) They are a Republic made up of many different areas and traditions and most couldnt really give a fuck about Gibraltar,I imagine. The Basques,Catalans and a few others would have no problem seeing the central government take a good fucking from the UK over anything and would probably side with the UK or be neutral,regarding public opinion.

Blown out of all proportion for me and just a bit of political tap dancing i reckon.

[Strontium]

Blown out of all proportion for me and just a bit of political tap dancing i reckon.

 

 

I tried political tap dancing, but I fell into the Lord Mayor's sink.

[Mr Nando]

Just say to the Spanish, we will give you back Gibraltar if you give the enclaves on the North African coast to Morocco.

 

Hypocritical cunts.

 

Job done.

[stringvest]

I tried political tap dancing, but I fell into the Lord Mayor's sink.

 

even the waste disposal finds that post difficult to swallow

[aws]

I'm not mate and i quite agree with it in the modern world.

Where it gets complicated is where do you draw the line?

300 years not long enough? How about 700 years? Gascony and Normandy were owned by the English crown then. Should the French give them back?

How about Latin America being given back to the Incas? Perhaps the American rebels should hand themselves back to the Crown as they were taken through conquest?

I reckon pretty much every square cm of land in the world has been conquered and re-conquered at some stage...such is life

 

And while we're on the subject, when are the English going to give England back?

[mattyq]

And while we're on the subject, when are the English going to give England back?

 

Yeah, the bastards

And the Scots Strathclyde...used to be Welsh

[Josef Svejk]

And while we're on the subject, when are the English going to give the Elgin Marbles back?

 

Good question.

[cochyn]

I have been to Gibraltar, and I can vouch for the fact that it is a fucking shithole. Like a shit army town with nasty tourist tat shops and sun. The British charge in there and make these places shit. See also The Falklands, Africa and the Eurovision Song Contest.

 

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that Gib is just the 'Costa del Corby': The s Spanish can fuck off out of it though. It may be a shithole, but it's our shithole, goddammit!

[stringvest]

if you have no association with the services it is possibly the most strangely depressing place in the world. And I've been to Wythenshawe.

[barosrocks]

2 bald men fighting over a comb really.

 

It's only a matter of time until the Germans own Gibraltar, Spain and the whole of fucking Europe.

[md1892]

Just sink a few trawlers (humanely), the spanish fisherman can fuck right off, they've been pillaging every other nationalitys waters since time in memorial.

[Nasty Lizard]

Hypothetical scenario:

 

The government of India spots some geo-political advantage in occupying Leicester. So, it sets about populating the city by military means, expelling the native population as necessary.

 

Needless to say, this doesn't go down very well with the English population more generally, a population which can't quite understand how India could "legitimately" claim such a distant territory under such morally questionable circumstances.

 

But, fear not, India offers an argument for such legitimacy, an argument which no democrat worthy of the name could possibly reject. India has a democratic mandate in Leicester! The vast majority of the population of Leicester feels Indian, wishes to remain part of India... and even claims to have turned the wasteland that was Leicester into some magnificent monument to Indian civilization.

 

I was in Leicester the other week.

I don't believe your scenario is hypothetical,- although I don't think the population was by military means.