Why are we too loyal too our managers?

[ottawa_lfc]

I don't think we are too loyal - in fact, it's the opposite. Loyalty may be shown in the boardroom by some - but how many times has Rafa Benitez been 'about to lose his job'? I can remember at least 3 when he was about to be dismissed/replaced. That's not loyalty.

 

As for the fans - assuming this forum is a cross-section of our support, it doesn't exactly shout 'we're loyal' from the rooftops.

 

I agree that Houllier was kept on too long - but that was more about his friendship with Moores than anything else. Same with Evans.

[Carra_is_legend]

So, you are judging Hughes within 2 months and yet, you will give whatever time it takes for Rafa?

 

I don't care whether Hughes wins the premiership or gets the sack in January - it is none of my business. Just like I didn't care when Mourinho and Grant got the boot. Just like I don't care whether Wenger will get a 10 year contract or not.

 

I have always been on the fence with Rafa (possibly 55-45 in favouring of replacing him but I have never said we should get rid of him until now) until Saturday, even though I always thought he will never win us the league.

 

I wasn't the one who jumped up and down when we beat Madrid and United last year. And I wasn't the one who ranted and raved when we lost to Villa at home this season (I was still saying that the players should pull their fucking fingers out). And I fully hope he turns it around, wins the league and other trophies and stays with us for the next 10 years and more.

 

I have posted in various threads that I won't forgive anyone throwing a game away (in my opinion, he did exactly that against Fulham). In a way, that game has nailed it for me as for as Benitez is concerned. Not just because of the loss of 3 points but because he dragged us down (or at least he played his part) on Saturday after we did so much to regain some confidence with the victory against United.

 

It may be just me, but I think we are starting to see the end for Rafa at Liverpool.

[serenejim]

i dont understand how so many of our supporters (and boardroom members) have backed our recent managers like they were shankly and paisley.it was obvious (to some) that both houllier and rafa were to cautious/defensive to win us a title after 3 seasons in charge.

 

supporters (and ex players) who are negative are called mancs and traitors for voicing opinion and concerns.

 

is it simply because of the bond that was forged between shanks and the kop?

 

or is because some of the younger lads on the kop dont know what tactics it needs to win the league and some of the older fellas have forgot what it takes to win the marathon of a championship?

 

To ask this question is to be ignorant of LFC and the people of Liverpool.We offer loyalty to our city and our club. It is not "too loyal" it is spot on. Really pissed off with this internet nonsense from people who know eff all about the club and it's city. Please piss off and support someone else:wallbutt::wallbutt:

[old skool tom]

if you compare the last 3 managers to win the league slur alex/the gobshite one/wenger to rafa.theres no doubt whatsoever that they are more brave/instictive/attacking than our manager.plus they all make there positive substitutions/tactical changes quicker than rafa ever has or ever will.this was obvious after 3/4 seasons.tbf rafa's great in europe over two legs when its about stopping teams and counter attacking but when it comes to the league he's way out of his depth.he's identical to houllier in my opinion.if he had the best squad in europe i wouldnt trust him to have the courage to win the league

Edited November 2, 2009 by old skool tom

[old skool tom]

To ask this question is to be ignorant of LFC and the people of Liverpool.We offer loyalty to our city and our club. It is not "too loyal" it is spot on. Really pissed off with this internet nonsense from people who know eff all about the club and it's city. Please piss off and support someone else:wallbutt::wallbutt:

 

maybe thats why it took this city years to get 'modernized' when it took other cities about five minutes? weve only just got an indoor arena and world class shopping area.i love this city and club 100% but maybe our paranoia of people on the outside has also effected our protection and loyaly too our people/club/managers?

[serenejim]

maybe thats why it took this city years to get 'modernized' when it took other cities about five minutes? weve only just got an indoor arena and world class shopping area.i love this city and club 100% but maybe our paranoia of people on the outside has also effected our protection and loyaly too our people/club/managers?

 

Irrelevant and bollocks in one sentence. The only paranoia exhibited here emerges from your own posting here. I say again if you do not understand the fundamental concept of loyalty when the going gets tough you are supporting the wrong club.I have absolutely no patience with people like you.

[Red Dawn]

Continuity. Without patience and continuity we can't achieve continuous improvement. It's what all developement is based on, and luckily our club has a history of acknowledging that fact.

 

Agreed and I aint going to read anymore of this thread.

[old skool tom]

Irrelevant and bollocks in one sentence. The only paranoia exhibited here emerges from your own posting here. I say again if you do not understand the fundamental concept of loyalty when the going gets tough you are supporting the wrong club.I have absolutely no patience with people like you.

 

hahaha get on you! shall i put the lego bricks back in your baby mobile for you?

 

 

i know what loyalty is alright thanks.but let me tell you from experience.theres a fine line between loyalty and being a mug.

 

i bet you still think houllier should be manager :eek:

[Dicko]

if you compare the last 3 managers to win the league slur alex/the gobshite one/wenger to rafa

 

More attacking than Rafa, Righty ho.

[old skool tom]

More attacking than Rafa, Righty ho.

 

 

he was actually.if things were going wrong he'd change things fast and made loads of substitutions at half time.didnt always work but he was braver than our shitbag manager

[Catch22]

if you compare the last 3 managers to win the league slur alex/the gobshite one/wenger to rafa.theres no doubt whatsoever that they are more brave/instictive/attacking than our manager.plus they all make there positive substitutions/tactical changes quicker than rafa ever has or ever will.this was obvious after 3/4 seasons.tbf rafa's great in europe over two legs when its about stopping teams and counter attacking but when it comes to the league he's way out of his depth.he's identical to houllier in my opinion.if he had the best squad in europe i wouldnt trust him to have the courage to win the league

 

 

FFs, we scored more than anyone else but lost it last year on our defensive record.

 

If anything that means we were too attacking, not too defensive.

 

And he has twice won a League of far higher quality!

[Red-Ed]

How long should a manager be given?

 

Most managers talk about a 5 year plan - and that is under consistent conditions, not where the financial constraints are moved and others are able to influence or affect your transfer dealings.

 

I don't think on the whole we are - the last thing we want to do is turn into a sacking club.

 

The other problem is that we are constantly 'one or two' players away from winning the league which lends itself to giving managers more time as by saying that you are admitting that they are on the right track.

[old skool tom]

FFs, we scored more than anyone else but lost it last year on our defensive record.

 

If anything that means we were too attacking, not too defensive.

 

And he has twice won a League of far higher quality!

 

sorry but thats not true

 

how many draws did we have last season? he cost us our greatest chance to win the league for about 2 decades because he seen his arse.chelsea & united were there for the taking last season but he wasnt brave enough.plus,when we were clear he tried to scrape over the line and it wasnt until he'd thrown the chance way that he let the players of the leash.

 

and if he can win (as you call it not me) 'a better league' against teams who easily out spent his valencia side. then why on earth hasnt he done it here?

 

 

he's not good enough unfortunately.im gutted cos he gives his all and seems a great fella but thats life and football.

[PaulMcC]

and now he has that experience and knows what he needs, you want to get rid of him for someone who doesn't have a clue? I dont care how bad the results get, we should back him and keep him

 

I want Rafa to stay but that's just stupid.

 

If we lose 20 games in a row, you wouldn't care?

[Catch22]

sorry but thats not true

 

how many draws did we have last season? he cost us our greatest chance to win the league for about 2 decades because he seen his arse.chelsea & united were there for the taking last season but he wasnt brave enough.plus,when we were clear he tried to scrape over the line and it wasnt until he'd thrown the chance way that he let the players of the leash.

 

and if he can win (as you call it not me) 'a better league' against teams who easily out spent his valencia side. then why on earth hasnt he done it here?

 

 

he's not good enough unfortunately.im gutted cos he gives his all and seems a great fella but thats life and football.

 

 

He & the players produced a miraculous season with a lot of good luck which ended short because we were the 4th highest spenders which means your chances of winning the PL are extremely low, to the point of being neglible.

 

There have been 6 occasions in this decade where a manager has won 1 of the 2 major Leagues or the CL without being in the top 2 in the former, top 8 in the latter wage bills.

 

6 fantastic managerial achievments & he has 3 of them with no other boss having more than 1.

 

Noone else in Europe comes close to his managerial record of over-achievement this decade & yet you say he is not good enough.....

[Carra_is_legend]

I have an idea.

 

We shouldn't spend a penny in transfers in January or next summer. Just use all the money to give massive wage increase to our players. That should do the trick in terms of winning the no. 19.

 

Not sure if Rafa knows this already. Someone should tell him. Actually, I can only think of one person who can make it very clear about wages. But I'm not sure if he is willing to talk about wages.

[old skool tom]

He & the players produced a miraculous season with a lot of good luck which ended short because we were the 4th highest spenders which means your chances of winning the PL are extremely low, to the point of being neglible.

 

There have been 6 occasions in this decade where a manager has won 1 of the 2 major Leagues or the CL without being in the top 2 in the former, top 8 in the latter wage bills.

 

6 fantastic managerial achievments & he has 3 of them with no other boss having more than 1.

 

Noone else in Europe comes close to his managerial record of over-achievement this decade & yet you say he is not good enough.....

 

ffs! cant you see that football in england is about pace,power,physical strength etc and spanish/european football is about possession & patience?

 

thats why he's good in europe and poor in the premier league for ffs!

 

he's out of his depth,he doesnt understand what players & tactics are required in england!

[Catch22]

ffs! cant you see that football in england is about pace,power,physical strength etc and spanish/european football is about possession & patience?

 

thats why he's good in europe and poor in the premier league for ffs!

 

he's out of his depth,he doesnt understand what players & tactics are required in england!

 

He has overachieved in the PL versus our expected finishing position (something we haven't done for 20 years), so how can you say he doesn't understand it?

[old skool tom]

He has overachieved in the PL versus our expected finishing position (something we haven't done for 20 years), so how can you say he doesn't understand it?

 

didnt mr houllier finish above his 'budget' once or twice? so we should get him back then eh? :wallbutt:

[youngster69]

SACK THE FAT W**KER,SHOULDNT BE GIVEN ANYMORE MONEY TO WASTE ON PURE DUMMIE'S,CANT WAIT TILL HES SHOWN THE DOOR

[Catch22]

didnt mr houllier finish above his 'budget' once or twice? so we should get him back then eh? :wallbutt:

 

Once out of 5 & that was before his illness, with an average that was lower.

 

So no we shouldn't get him back.

 

But we shouldn't get rid of a man who has beaten it 3 times out of 5, won the CL in 1 of those years he didn't, broken the big 2 duopoly twice in Spain which is the same as everybody else in the world put together over the last 25 years & beaten our budget on average in the PL for the 1st time in a generation.

[old skool tom]

Once out of 5 & that was before his illness, with an average that was lower.

 

So no we shouldn't get him back.

 

But we shouldn't get rid of a man who has beaten it 3 times out of 5, won the CL in 1 of those years he didn't, broken the big 2 duopoly twice in Spain which is the same as everybody else in the world put together over the last 25 years & beaten our budget on average in the PL for the 1st time in a generation.

 

i admire your defence of him but sorry he's just nowhere near good enough to win the league.we'll just have to agree on disagreeing.

 

ps-good to have a heated yet sensible debate

Edited November 2, 2009 by old skool tom

[old skool tom]

[Vulmea]

what a completely classless thread - in which our manager to whom we are too loyal is called a shitbag - you couldn't make it up

[Ramjet]

No one said we should get O'Neill or Redknapp though.

 

Who then? Who should we go for? Kenny? while it would be an absolute fairytale what makes you think he would do any better than he did at Newcastle? and if he didn't how long would you give him before you load the snipers rifle because he hasn't won the treble?