some depressing points from Rogan Taylor

[JMARKH]

A CALL TO ARMS

 

 

It’s the countdown to crunch time for the American owners of Liverpool FC. The final deadline for Hicks & Gillett is only seven months away. The £350m debt which the Americans owe to the recently nationalised bank, RBS, has to be re-structured by July 2009 at the latest, and there is every sign that it won’t be straightforward. It might even happen in January.

 

As you all know, the financial picture is stark:

 

In the present climate, RBS will probably require a very significant cash injection from the owners before even reconsidering the loan – and that appears very unlikely

The cash the Club has to spend is heavily dependent on income from the Champions League but the servicing of the debt is going to drain away LFC’s financial resources to recruit players

If the current debt can't be re-financed, going in to Administration is a real risk for the club; the 20 point loss in the Premier League would scupper almost any chance of participation in the CL next year

The result against Chelsea might have awakened genuine optimism amongst Liverpool fans on the football front, but we should not let such hopes disguise the real dangers facing our Club right now. We’re teetering on the edge of a financial cliff and there’s every chance we could drop off.

 

But any crisis is also an opportunity.

 

This is the time for Liverpool fans to really get together and take control. If a financial collapse does come – it may be the best chance we’ll get to take ownership of our Club.

 

There is a real alternative to the current owners – it’s us, the fans themselves.

 

Some of you have written to ask, ‘When will we get the chance to buy the Club?’

 

We write to emphasise to you the opportunity which may be coming our way soon, and it may be that the cost of acquiring the Club is falling – and to urge you to convince others that now is the time to register their support on our website: Shareliverpool Football Club

 

There are many out there that still don’t believe it’s possible – but just look at what’s been happening in the financial world recently – the ‘unthinkable’ seems to happen every day. This is the time to break the mould of big Club ownership in UK. We all know that our clubs are drifting further and further away from us - the very people who provide all their real value – the people who love them like ‘family’. It’s time to act.

 

We need more fans to register with us, as either potential ‘group members’ or individual members. Help us to reach them. If you know anyone who’s been holding back, now is the time to urge them forward!

 

If it all goes wrong for the current owners, SLFC will be in a position to bid directly for the Club – either alone or in partnership with another incoming owner. We already have a very detailed understanding of the Club’s finances and will begin to prepare ourselves.

 

The Board of ShareLiverpoolFC is tremendously grateful for your support. We’d like to express our thanks by giving you all a chance to win:

 

TWO SEATS IN AN EXECUTIVE BOX FOR ANY HOME GAME OF YOUR CHOICE NEXT YEAR

 

We’ll put the names of all currently existing registrants into a Prize Draw a week before Christmas and inform the winner on Christmas Eve. (This is NOT an incentive to ‘sign people up’ – it’s a ‘thank you’ for your support.)

 

The prize will allow you to choose two exec box seats at any home game after January 3rd, 2009, including Champions League games.

 

[We are particularly grateful to one of our supporters for this offer.]

 

We’ll be in touch again soon,

 

 

Rogan Taylor

On behalf of SLFC Board

 

That 20 point administration is really worrying, I wonder how he has details of clubs finances, I'm not sure whether he is scare mongering as we all know how bad things are under the yank cunts.

Edited October 31, 2008 by JMARKH

[Barrington Womble]

we won't go into administration as long as no more debt goes against the club - ie an increase on the 105m currently against us. This is scare mongering from Taylor in an attempt to whip up interest in shareliverpool.

[Anubis]

Spot on Barry. Two self-interested bastards being lambasted by another self-interested bastard. I don't like Rogan Taylor.

[Dan Vito Corleone]

Barry Wom and Scouse Missionary have hit the nail on the head - an attempt at whipping up a frenzy.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - a stupid idea led by a silly man.

[coop]

Personally i believe that more debt will be put on the club and in all fairness it more or less is anyway.

 

The ShareLiverpool is an idea i just cant get used to and it will cause more problems if they were to be successful.

 

You ultimately need one person in charge who can call the shots but who in ShareLiverpool would be that person, Rogan Taylor? possibly Miskelly if he went on board.

 

You then have the problem of people only been able to put the same amount in so therefore have the same power as one another but again who call the shots on transfer dealings, sponsorship etc.

 

The Gareth Barry saga in the summer divided a lot of Liverpool fans so what would happen if the same was to manifest itself whilst under ShareLiverpool.

 

Whilst the idea of been owned by the fans is a good one i would say Moores who is a Liverpool fan showed that that is not always the best policy.

[JustTosh]

we won't go into administration as long as no more debt goes against the club - ie an increase on the 105m currently against us. This is scare mongering from Taylor in an attempt to whip up interest in shareliverpool.

 

I agree Mr Taylor’s stirring things up. I agree his dream of a fan’s 500M takeover is just that, a dream.

 

However he’s got a valuable point, and you're very wrong just slagging it off as bullshit.

 

Maybe the club’s debt is no more than 105M, or maybe our respected custodians have changed that, I don’t know and it’s not important. If the club doesn’t service the loan taken up by Kop Holding (KH) or whatever it’s called, KH would probably go into bankruptcy. I’ll tell you what will happen then. The creditors will take over KH’s assets, which is Liverpool FC. They’ll want their money, not to run a football club. If the club can’t afford to pay off the creditors, someone else has too, or we’ll be ripped and sold piece by piece. So the fact is, if LFC doesn’t service both the 105M placed on the club AND the 200M+ on KH, we’re fucked.

 

If the parent company goes down, so do we.

 

The leeches are eating us up from inside, and I’m very concerned. Big Big trouble lies ahead me thinks. I only hope we’ll be able to get that holy 19th grail before we go down. Then we can rebuild from wherever, the fanbase will always be there, administration or not. Some sunny day we’ll bounce back

[ratcatcher]

The club wont go into administration full stop. Ever.

 

But I've still signed up for shareliverpool. I'd urge everyone to do the same either as individuals if you can afford it or in a group. What have we got to lose?

[SpeedyG]

I agree Mr Taylor’s stirring things up. I agree his dream of a fan’s 500M takeover is just that, a dream.

 

However he’s got a valuable point, and you're very wrong just slagging it off as bullshit.

 

Maybe the club’s debt is no more than 105M, or maybe our respected custodians have changed that, I don’t know and it’s not important. If the club doesn’t service the loan taken up by Kop Holding (KH) or whatever it’s called, KH would probably go into bankruptcy. I’ll tell you what will happen then. The creditors will take over KH’s assets, which is Liverpool FC. They’ll want their money, not to run a football club. If the club can’t afford to pay off the creditors, someone else has too, or we’ll be ripped and sold piece by piece. So the fact is, if LFC doesn’t service both the 105M placed on the club AND the 200M+ on KH, we’re fucked.

 

If the parent company goes down, so do we.

 

The leeches are eating us up from inside, and I’m very concerned. Big Big trouble lies ahead me thinks. I only hope we’ll be able to get that holy 19th grail before we go down. Then we can rebuild from wherever, the fanbase will always be there, administration or not. Some sunny day we’ll bounce back

 

I thought we had just announced that a/ we've made a profit (which has not been the case for a while) b/ after having serviced both the LFC and KH loans c/ had increased our sponsorship revenue by 10m/year, with the expectation of more to come

 

Hysterics about impending administration seem hard to believe.

[Section_31]

I don't like the idea of shareliverpool at all. We need one owner, not the fucking Dave Clark Five.

[SpeedyG]

I don't like the idea of shareliverpool at all. We need one owner, not the fucking Dave Clark Five.

 

ha ha ha. I read how it worked, for my five grand I get to vote for someone to vote for someone to join a group that get to choose someone at random to be on the board. No thanks.

 

We need a structure with a hard nosed business man to drive the commercial side of the business and a football guy to manage the playing side. Any more complicated than that and they'll spend all their time in meetings.

[JustTosh]

I thought we had just announced that a/ we've made a profit (which has not been the case for a while) b/ after having serviced both the LFC and KH loans c/ had increased our sponsorship revenue by 10m/year, with the expectation of more to come

 

Hysterics about impending administration seem hard to believe.

 

Seems to me you’re basing your opinion on what’s been said by the same people who promised you a new stadium, no debt on the club etc. In matters concerning the economical situation of our club, I’ve stopped believing anything, especially info coming from the club itself.

 

I hope though, you’re right I’m not. In any case only the future will tell.

[Royal Family]

I wonder where Taylor and his Share Liverpool idea was when Moores spent 3 years scouring the world for the most unsuitable buyers he could find? Wouldn't have needed £500m then. It's, sadly, all about self-publicity as he knows it's neither workable nor indeed desirable.

 

He is scaremongering about administration although he's right that in the longterm the business plan isn't sustainable - but Gillett and Hicks would sell all our assets off first. I wouldn't even be surprised if they started in January.

[bobhorse]

If and it is a big if the club went to the wall? This would be the best thing for Rogan Taylor as it is the only way he would get what he wants, his hands on Liverpool.

 

I wont say anything about Mr Taylor as i dont know the man but if we went bang the administrators would sell to the best offer at a fraction of what toot and plut want and that wont happen as both Arsenal and Man utd would both go to the wall also with there debt level as it wouldnt just apply to a single club.

 

its simple 1 of 2 things have to happen

either we force these two out and they sell to Dubia or another billionair owner

or

We get behind them and follow in the United way of doing things

 

there isnt a 3rd option in my book

[JustTosh]

I wonder where Taylor and his Share Liverpool idea was when Moores spent 3 years scouring the world for the most unsuitable buyers he could find? Wouldn't have needed £500m then. It's, sadly, all about self-publicity as he knows it's neither workable nor indeed desirable.

 

He is scaremongering about administration although he's right that in the longterm the business plan isn't sustainable - but Gillett and Hicks would sell all our assets off first. I wouldn't even be surprised if they started in January.

 

Some months ago, rumours said Gillette was afraid because he had received death threats. However disgusting it is threatening to kill someone, I believe he’s a bit soft taking them threats seriously. If he, on the other hand, were to sell Torres with Liverpool 5 points clear at the top of the table, he would have real reason to be afraid, very afraid. Can’t see it happening before the summer. The coward won’t dare to.

[JustTosh]

If and it is a big if the club went to the wall? This would be the best thing for Rogan Taylor as it is the only way he would get what he wants, his hands on Liverpool.

 

I wont say anything about Mr Taylor as i dont know the man but if we went bang the administrators would sell to the best offer at a fraction of what toot and plut want and that wont happen as both Arsenal and Man utd would both go to the wall also with there debt level as it wouldnt just apply to a single club.

 

its simple 1 of 2 things have to happen

either we force these two out and they sell to Dubia or another billionair owner

or

We get behind them and follow in the United way of doing things

 

there isnt a 3rd option in my book

 

One right and one wrong.

 

The right one: There’s no 3rd option.

 

The wrong one: There’s no 2nd option. Getting behind them? Give me a break! It would be like getting behind Hitler in 1941 because there seemed to be no other option.

[SpeedyG]

Seems to me you’re basing your opinion on what’s been said by the same people who promised you a new stadium, no debt on the club etc. In matters concerning the economical situation of our club, I’ve stopped believing anything, especially info coming from the club itself.

 

I hope though, you’re right I’m not. In any case only the future will tell.

 

No it was based on information in the annual report. Signed off by auditors etc etc. About as close to the truth as you are ever going to get coming out of those involved with LFC as it's the only communication which requires independent validation and oversight.

[SpeedyG]

One right and one wrong.

 

The right one: There’s no 3rd option.

 

The wrong one: There’s no 2nd option. Getting behind them? Give me a break! It would be like getting behind Hitler in 1941 because there seemed to be no other option.

 

Alas, I think Bob is right. G&H don't want to go and who could blame them. They've made their money turning around under performing companies and we are a textbook under performing company. So they'll be pretty comfortable they can make a mint out of us. So the only way anyone is going to get them out is either by offering more than they think they can make from us after our performance is on par with for example Manure, or, we wreck their business model.

 

The only way we can wreck their business model is by ensuring that the stadium is empty on match days. Now a boycott won't cut it, there are too many fans that are apathetic about ownership for that to work. So the only remaining option is civil disobedience. I don't think there is the appetite for that in england anymore.

 

So my thinking is that sooner or later, we will end up, focusing on teaching / forcing G&H how to do it in the liverpool way rather than expending all our energy on getting them out.

 

Sad but true.

[JustTosh]

No it was based on information in the annual report. Signed off by auditors etc etc. About as close to the truth as you are ever going to get coming out of those involved with LFC as it's the only communication which requires independent validation and oversight.

 

Thanks mate, and sorry if I offended you.

 

I agree there’s no better way to get information on the actual situation than reading a report that requires independent validation. You seem to have assembled a lot of info. Could you enlighten me with info on how much the actual debt was before the yanks came in and what it is now, LFC and Kop Holding combined?

[SpeedyG]

Thanks mate, and sorry if I offended you.

 

I agree there’s no better way to get information on the actual situation than reading a report that requires independent validation. You seem to have assembled a lot of info. Could you enlighten me with info on how much the actual debt was before the yanks came in and what it is now, LFC and Kop Holding combined?

 

No worries mate, no offense taken. If you really want to know about the financial situation there is a real good thread over on RAWK by an accountant guy. Let me see if I can dig it out.

 

Financial Reporting 101 - LFC Y/E July 2007

[JustTosh]

Alas, I think Bob is right. G&H don't want to go and who could blame them. They've made their money turning around under performing companies and we are a textbook under performing company. So they'll be pretty comfortable they can make a mint out of us. So the only way anyone is going to get them out is either by offering more than they think they can make from us after our performance is on par with for example Manure, or, we wreck their business model.

 

The only way we can wreck their business model is by ensuring that the stadium is empty on match days. Now a boycott won't cut it, there are too many fans that are apathetic about ownership for that to work. So the only remaining option is civil disobedience. I don't think there is the appetite for that in england anymore.

 

So my thinking is that sooner or later, we will end up, focusing on teaching / forcing G&H how to do it in the liverpool way rather than expending all our energy on getting them out.

 

Sad but true.

 

Even if you’re right G+H is here to stay long term, I don’t believe one minute we’ll ever be able to persuade them to do it the Liverpool Way. They won’t be interested in that as it’s got nothing to do with greed and money.

 

I despise those two leaches, they’re ruining something dare to me and might cripple Liverpool FC for years to come. Rather than try teaching them anything I’ll support any effort done to get them out. Maybe it’s a battle that can’t be won as you predict. If so I’ll rather stay with the losers fighting the impossible battle. I’ll rather go down with my head up high, than to survive bowing.

 

Also sad but true

[Section_31]

Real Red rules on the FF. But he does so quietly, from behind the scenes. He has 'stealth class'.

[rebel23]

'One problem with the doom and gloom over the £245m part of the loan. H&G had loads of trouble getting it. Remember? Had to secure it using their own assets. Not the club, their own asssets. Cash, letters of credit, George's record collection, Tom's orchids. So if it doesn't get serviced, they lose those items.'

 

the thing that will really hurt them is that their assets they used to secure the loans will have depreciated and need to be 'revalued' indeed some businesses they have invested in and were partners in may have gone bankrupt I think so if they used the value of that equity to leverage the loan then that needs to be revalued also any stock they have in public companies is likely to have decreased substantially if they have used it to leverage, I have no idea of course but that's a matter for RBS.

 

they're very likely to be asked to stump up more and they might not be able to. I think their only option will be to sell and sell quickly.

[SpeedyG]

Real Red rules on the FF. But he does so quietly, from behind the scenes. He has 'stealth class'.

 

That's better. The Rumsfeld line really didn't flatter him :smile:

[Section_31]

That's better. The Rumsfeld line really didn't flatter him :smile:

 

Yeah was thinking that, I knew what I meant though!

[SpeedyG]

'One problem with the doom and gloom over the £245m part of the loan. H&G had loads of trouble getting it. Remember? Had to secure it using their own assets. Not the club, their own asssets. Cash, letters of credit, George's record collection, Tom's orchids. So if it doesn't get serviced, they lose those items.'

 

the thing that will really hurt them is that their assets they used to secure the loans will have depreciated and need to be 'revalued' indeed some businesses they have invested in and were partners in may have gone bankrupt I think so if they used the value of that equity to leverage the loan then that needs to be revalued also any stock they have in public companies is likely to have decreased substantially if they have used it to leverage, I have no idea of course but that's a matter for RBS.

 

they're very likely to be asked to stump up more and they might not be able to. I think their only option will be to sell and sell quickly.

 

I've seen nothing other than conjecture from uninformed commentators that suggest that is likely.