Our formation cannot, must not, change

[AussieRed]

Yeah, but they were a lot more expansive in their approach, which allied with quality players will always win you the majority of games.

 

That's not to say our way and a reliance on a more tactical set up won't produce consistency and results, as Chelsea, have proved in the past, but until we can fill the team with world class individuals, our rigid style, and poor movement against sides we should really be dominating, will always see us fall short.

 

I agree entirely. What is required are footballers with versatility and technical ability. The reason that Man U can play in that expansive fashion is because they are playing with Tevez and Rooney up front. They have the ability to drop deeper and bring others into play. It's no coincidence that since Van Nistlerooy was sold, Ronaldo scores more goals and gets in the box more frequently. Also they can all pass. They place a priority on maintaining posession, which explains the low goals scored against them.

 

However, it is important to note that the players that they have are suited to the formation and style of play that they use. For instance, their CB's can not be slow as they have only Carrick to protect their back four. A CB like Sami would be completely exposed in their setup, yet can dominate in ours where he is not left on an island. Their fulbacks are also fairly disciplined. While they attack they rarely venture into the middle and are rarely caught out of position.

[Crazyhorse7778]

How did you come to the conclusion that he's no longer the box to box midfielder of 5 years ago? The guy has amazing stamina and could easily run up and down all day. Anyway i'd rather gerrard in the middle next to mascherano with torres up front with a proper number 10.

 

Gerrard and Mascherano as a partnership blatently doesn't work, Gerrard just ends up dropping deeper and deeper trying to pick a pass and negating his main strengths going forward.

[bobhorse]

if everyone is happy with the way we play 4-3-3

Then i would like Rafa to sign players that would make everyone happy with 4-4-2 or 3-5-2- or what ever fucking formation Rafa feels he needs his players to deploy to win

 

If you are predictable then you are beatable, i want players who can change things when we need the changing on the pitch to exploit any opposition weakness

[aws]

The formation can be changed. But not the policy.

[zigackly]

There was a time when I wasn't convinced Gerrard had the skills with the ball at this feet to unlock defences in intricate situations in the box, which was why I had him down as the box to box player in a midfield pair. I felt his best attributes were his lung-bursting runs, shooting from outside the box and his through balls.

 

Seeing his work there in the latter part of this season, I no longer have any fears on that score. He has evidently been learning a lot from Torres and his movement, dribbling, short range passing and one-on-ones have improved tremendously as a result. I think the partnership between them is one of the best in world football at the moment, and if it continues to progress there is a serious chance of it being our best ever partnership.

 

It's something you build a team around, that.

 

With Babel chipping in with goals from the flanks and looking like a prospect to raise his game again next year, Mascherano protecting the defence and Alonso or Lucas pulling the strings, we are so nearly there.

 

Kuyt on the right provides the hard work and is fitting into the system well, chipping in with some important goals and assists, and I wouldn't be massively upset if we were to keep him there next season although I hope we can improve. He can certainly cover any of the attacking midfield positions though, and I want him in the squad for next year whatever happens.

 

Our central defence is looking good for both now and the future. If we are to improve this team then I think we will need to look at the fullback positions first and foremost. We need players who can get up and down the pitch, with the intelligence to know when to go and when to stay, and they must also be good crossers of the ball. I think our priorities to improve the team should be one or two fullbacks and then, if we have the funds, a quality right-sided attacking midfielder who can take on defenders and score.

 

I think we could then start to make a serious challenge for the league.

[Kevin D]

People talk about getting a number 10 and a Rw. My question is , can anyone name any number 10 in worldfootball who has scored more than Gerrard this season or set up more? No you cannot. And for that reason any number 10 signing would be weakening the side.

 

As for the RW. In Kuyt's last 10 games he's got 7 assits and 3 goals , again its very unlikely that you'll find a winger anywhere with that sort of rate.

 

In saing all this I do think we should just change the formation slightly.

Reina

Carra Hyypia Skrtel

Mascherano Alonso

Kuyt Gerrard Babel * new signing*

Torres *New striker/Crouch for now*

 

In my opinion our FBs are our weakest position and given we have 4 quality CBs and two other good/decent ones I feel we'd be best going to 3 at the back and since we're awesome defensively and most of the teams in this league are laughable , we should go for teams a bit more. This formation lends itself to that.

[bigguly]

As you lot are talking about formations, I read this last week; it's from Marcotti, from the times. Fairly interesting

4-4-2 exits through the evolving door - Times Online

[Glen C]

People talk about getting a number 10 and a Rw. My question is , can anyone name any number 10 in worldfootball who has scored more than Gerrard this season or set up more? No you cannot. And for that reason any number 10 signing would be weakening the side.

 

As for the RW. In Kuyt's last 10 games he's got 7 assits and 3 goals , again its very unlikely that you'll find a winger anywhere with that sort of rate.

 

In saing all this I do think we should just change the formation slightly.

Reina

Carra Hyypia Skrtel

Mascherano Alonso

Kuyt Gerrard Babel * new signing*

Torres *New striker/Crouch for now*

 

In my opinion our FBs are our weakest position and given we have 4 quality CBs and two other good/decent ones I feel we'd be best going to 3 at the back and since we're awesome defensively and most of the teams in this league are laughable , we should go for teams a bit more. This formation lends itself to that.

 

Just because i can't think of a number 10 that has scored more than gerrard doesn't mean a player can't come in a do a better job as a no.10 than gerrard. That's like the imbeciles that said we shouldn't get torres because he's never scored more than 15 goals a season. But he's come her now and he's scored 30 goals this season. Your arguement gets significantly weaker when you think that kuyt is the best RW out there right now....you weren't serious about that bit were you?

[Red Nick]

My Dream team to win the PL

 

------------------------Pepe----------------------------

Alves-----------Skrtel-------------Agger-----------Aurelio

Bentley---------Javi-------------Stevie G--------- see below

 

------------------Berbatov-------Torres----------------

 

Anyone of the following for LM

 

Silva

Mancini

Quaresma

Nasri

A fit Kewell

[bobhorse]

People talk about getting a number 10 and a Rw. My question is , can anyone name any number 10 in worldfootball who has scored more than Gerrard this season or set up more? No you cannot. And for that reason any number 10 signing would be weakening the side.

 

As for the RW. In Kuyt's last 10 games he's got 7 assits and 3 goals , again its very unlikely that you'll find a winger anywhere with that sort of rate.

 

In saing all this I do think we should just change the formation slightly.

Reina

Carra Hyypia Skrtel

Mascherano Alonso

Kuyt Gerrard Babel * new signing*

Torres *New striker/Crouch for now*

 

In my opinion our FBs are our weakest position and given we have 4 quality CBs and two other good/decent ones I feel we'd be best going to 3 at the back and since we're awesome defensively and most of the teams in this league are laughable , we should go for teams a bit more. This formation lends itself to that.

 

You dont need someone to come in a better Gerrard at No10 Gerrard scored 20 plus when out on the right so if you get someone who can score 15 - 20 at No10 and Gerrard doing his bit then you have 60 to 70 goals form 3 of your 4 attacking players

 

I'm not saying Gerrard should be on the right but if it is going to be the cheaper option getting a No 10 than getting a right sided player then that is what we have to do for the good of the team but that is where Rafa earns his money making them types of calls

[Heighway]

Gerrard best position is coming off the right in a free role. That would solve so many selction headaches for us, and we could bring in a specialist link striker to partner Torres, or use someone like Crouch, and still keep the two disciplined midfielder types that Rafa likes.

 

If not for Andy Gray and Jamie Redknapp banging on about it every week, I doubt Stevie would have been that fussed about having to play more centrally.

[zico]

There seems to be alot of talk about buying support strikers or link men. The fact is we have to play the 451 or 433 formation at the moment to put our best player in his best position and that is Gerrard. He is no longer the box to box midfielder he was 5 years ago and we shouldn't want him to be. At present he plays just in front of two defensive mids, not just behind the striker (as a link man would). The distinction is important as in this position he receives the ball, most of the time, facing goal.

 

The formation is very similar to the one played by Chelsea before they bought Ballack, with Lampard playing in Gerrards role. You do not need a link man when your striker can hold up play and pass. Note that Torres often sets Gerrard up for goals. It also helps having two Dutch players that understand when to cut into the middle to make the extra man in the box. Playing Gerrard on the right or as a Centre Mid of a 442 will either take away from his ability to control the game or wreck the balance of the team.

 

Many express the fear that having Torres as the sole CF means that we are screwed if he is injured. The answer in a way is already there. If we have players versatile enough to play out wide (both sides) or in the middle (Babel and Kuyt can do this, albeit not as effectively) we could easily rotate five players to play the three forward roles (Babel, Kuyt, Yossi, Torres and a new winger).

 

The real challenge is to find a player that has the qualities to play Gerrard's position. This is why a player like Johnson would not be a bad buy as he is versatile enough to play as a more attacking DM when at home or against weaker teams, or fill in for Stevie if god forbid he is injured. We could then have 5 players to fill the 3 midfield positions (assuming Alonso is sold: Masch, Lucas, Plessis, Johnson and Gerrard).

 

Attacking Fullbacks would be nice.

 

You are kidding right? Babel and Kuyt knowing when to cut inside...LOL

 

And Gerrard does not control games anymore.... He used to when he played as a central midfielder....

If any of our players were to be put in that category I'd say it would have to be Alonso and Mascherano..

[zico]

My Dream team to win the PL

 

------------------------Pepe----------------------------

Alves-----------Skrtel-------------Agger-----------Aurelio

Bentley---------Javi-------------Stevie G--------- see below

 

------------------Berbatov-------Torres----------------

 

Anyone of the following for LM

 

Silva

Mancini

Quaresma

Nasri

A fit Kewell

 

And here is mine:

 

------------------------Pepe----------------------------

Alves-----------Skrtel-------------Agger-----------Aurelio/Insua

 

Quaresma---------Javi-------------Stevie G--------- Silva/Robinho/Mancini

 

------------------Villa/Benzema-------Torres----------------

 

 

I'd like a link player to be bought as well to give us options when trying to break teams down : Diego would be my number one option...

[zico]

My Dream team to win the PL

 

------------------------Pepe----------------------------

Alves-----------Skrtel-------------Agger-----------Aurelio

Bentley---------Javi-------------Stevie G--------- see below

 

------------------Berbatov-------Torres----------------

 

Anyone of the following for LM

 

Silva

Mancini

Quaresma

Nasri

A fit Kewell

 

3-4-1-2 alternative

 

------------------------Pepe----------------------------

 

----Carra--------Agger---------Skrtel----

 

Quaresma/Alves----Javi-------Stevie G-- Insua/Aurelio/Robinho/Silva/Mancini

 

Diego

 

----------Villa/Benzema-------Torres----------------

 

Ever Banega would be a nice replacement for Alonso if he were to walk.....

[Jose Jones]

Gotta love how Aussie Red makes some excellent reasoned points about how our 4-2-3-1 system has been working well, and the one or two player additions that could improve us further, and by the end of the thread people are posting loads of completely different formations with twelvty new players in the team.

Awesome.

[zico]

Gotta love how Aussie Red makes some excellent reasoned points about how our 4-2-3-1 system has been working well, and the one or two player additions that could improve us further, and by the end of the thread people are posting loads of completely different formations with twelvty new players in the team.

Awesome.

 

Hmm, 4 new players times 3 makes 12, yes? Problems with your vision, 4 changes is hardly 12 is it.

 

Our current team is not good enough to win the league...We lack quality out wide and Gerrard does not play to all his strenghts in the current position....

 

Bobhorse is spot on in his comments about being able to change system and not being predictable above....

[AussieRed]

if everyone is happy with the way we play 4-3-3

Then i would like Rafa to sign players that would make everyone happy with 4-4-2 or 3-5-2- or what ever fucking formation Rafa feels he needs his players to deploy to win

 

If you are predictable then you are beatable, i want players who can change things when we need the changing on the pitch to exploit any opposition weakness

 

While I'm not opposed to some flexibility, I do believe that tinkering with formations can cause problems with chemistry. I would prefer that other clubs worry about us rather than vice versa.

 

I also believe you can play different styles with the same formation. Team selection will often dictate style of play due to the natural tendencies of the players on the pitch.

 

A great example of this would be Liverpool themselves who essentially played the same formation and basic style from the late sixties to early nineties until Evans decided to play a 352 for some absurd reason. In the seventies when the forward partnership was big man little man with St John and Keegan the style was somewhat different to the eighties with Dalglish (a pure ten) and Rush (a pure finisher).

 

A 4231 is versatile as it can easily become a 433 or 451 or 4123 almost purely through team selection.