Cancel Culture

[AngryOfTuebrook]

17 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I've actually watched most of it now, there are hundreds of jokes to be offended by and some are worse than that one in my opinion.  It is certainly not hate speech. It is structured as his usual show with the offensive comic persona in the middle making jokes about stuff that are supposed to be off limits and being mean to his audience, this time turned up to 11. You can take any of the jokes out of the context of the show and it would look extremely bad for him, if you want to. There is a joke right next to the Gypsies about Jehova's Witnesses being invited to the concentration camp which is equally bad.

 

So by singling out the Gipsies you may be saying that you don't have a problem with Jehova's Witnesses being murdered, or that you are OK with all the rape jokes, or that you are not because you have not watched the show, but how can you then issue statements about it, based on the ten seconds or what was typed on the Twitter?

It's really not difficult to understand.  I've heard one joke from the show and it undeniably constitutes hate speech.  Some people here have suggested that it's excused by the context, but so far all I'm hearing is "the rest of the show was just as bad".  That doesn't help Jimmy Carr as much as you might think.

[Strontium]

If there are people out there who genuinely think that Jimmy Carr believes it to be a good thing that thousands of gypsies were murdered, they need to give their heads a wobble.

[Rico1304]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I've got to say, I'm surprised by the reaction on here a few days after the consensus on another thread that the Holocaust was a bad thing.

You’ve had a fucking shocker here. Sometimes it’s just best to put the shovel down.  

[Rico1304]

58 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's really not difficult to understand.  I've heard one joke from the show and it undeniably constitutes hate speech.  Some people here have suggested that it's excused by the context, but so far all I'm hearing is "the rest of the show was just as bad".  That doesn't help Jimmy Carr as much as you might think.

And yet you’ve misunderstood it. ‘Undeniably’. Who’d have thought you’d be on side with Nadine Dorries.  

[Rico1304]

Imagine drafting the law that says ‘you can only joke about your own race or religion, you can say the n word if you are black, but it’s illegal otherwise. ‘ 

[Captain Willard]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

Imagine drafting the law that says ‘you can only joke about your own race or religion, you can say the n word if you are black, but it’s illegal otherwise. ‘ 

What’s your point ? Are you saying it should be for white people to say the n word ? 

[Rico1304]

3 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

What’s your point ? Are you saying it should be for white people to say the n word ? 

My point is no word or joke should be banned.  If you try and allow it for some and not others it’d be a nightmare. How black do you have to be to say it?   

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Strontium said:

If there are people out there who genuinely think that Jimmy Carr believes it to be a good thing that thousands of gypsies were murdered, they need to give their heads a wobble.

I don't know about "out there" but there aren't any people in here who believe that.

 

And yet, he still thought it was OK to do a hate-speech line for laughs. And there are people in here who are fine with that. They're the ones who need to give their heads a wobble.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

You’ve had a fucking shocker here. Sometimes it’s just best to put the shovel down.  

Chootokkinbout?

[Captain Willard]

12 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

My point is no word or joke should be banned.  If you try and allow it for some and not others it’d be a nightmare. How black do you have to be to say it?   

There has always been an implicit unspoken understanding about what is acceptable though. People don’t make Hillsborough jokes for that reason. White people don’t say the n word. Comedians don’t make jokes about the Holocaust.  Matters of taste and acceptability are illogical and change over time but decent people know where the lines are most of the time. 
 

 I obviously don’t think Jimmy carr is a Nazi and I think he was trying to make a clumsy point about how we still allow these jokes about some groups and not others. That said, he also knew not to say blacks or gays instead because that would have been career suicide. So that’s what’s offensive in a way, he knows which group he could make this joke about and which he couldn’t. In an ironic way, it might be a good thing in the long term by starting a conversation about how we think about and treat the travelling community in our society. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Is that your opinion or are you quoting/paraphrasing Jimmy Carr?

Nadine? 

Any chance of an answer?  It's not a difficult question.

[SasaS]

2 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's really not difficult to understand.  I've heard one joke from the show and it undeniably constitutes hate speech.  Some people here have suggested that it's excused by the context, but so far all I'm hearing is "the rest of the show was just as bad".  That doesn't help Jimmy Carr as much as you might think.

Well, the context is, a stand-up comedian trying to prove he will make his audience laugh to inappropriate jokes because they have unexpected clever or outrageous twists so you will probably gasp or stop yourself in the middle of the laughter. His ambition is to be a bit of a comedy theoretician and occasionally deconstructs jokes, he believes you can get to the mechanics of it all and than you can simply write gags, you can learn and teach other people how to do it and so on. In that respect, this is not hate speech because it lacks hateful motivation.

 

Most jokes when people say comedians are punching down (as was the recent case with Chapelle), at disabled, minorities etc - they often are not, because the target of the joke is usually our fear, reluctance to make jokes about certain subjects, rather than making fun of people who we supposedly would be punching down at (there are of course exceptions). Many Holocaust jokes would fit into that category.

 

Having said that, you could argue that the gag uses Romany people, because, as some people have remarked, he wouldn't have the courage to replace them with black people or Jews, the top of the no-go lists. His BLM jokes were aimed at racists. But it also uses one important element, has a connotation which is: many people in the UK (and of course much more in other countries) dislike or have a problem with the Roma and would, deep down, probably briefly allow themselves to think what he said aloud, along the lines Section, I think, said about what he caught himself thinking about Jehova's Witnesses. So, saying aloud what some people would probably think, that is kind of what irreverent comedy does, and what (dark) humour essentially is for.  In some further analysis, you could probably argue that the joke is equally aimed at people thinking that, but pretending they never would.

 

Obviously, if you take a joke our of all this, it sounds horribly bad, "killing six million Jews was horrible, but they don't talk about killing thousands of Gipsies, why, because nobody want to talk about the positives"  Same as "How can you prevent rape? Just say yes!" and other of his many, many similar gags.

 

I watched about 20 minutes then I got tired because I am not a fan and it's all very one-dimensional and skipped to the last 15 minutes where I expected to find the Holocaust joke. People who go out to see Jimmy Carr, it is not like they don't know what it is going to be like.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

Imagine drafting the law that says ‘you can only joke about your own race or religion, you can say the n word if you are black, but it’s illegal otherwise. ‘ 

What law?

[Rico1304]

4 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Nadine? 

Any chance of an answer?  It's not a difficult question.

It’s fucking obvious, if you arrive looking be offended and not think I can’t help you.  

[mars]

It's a joke Bernard Manning would have been proud of. One of the reasons it works as a joke is because it taps into people's prejudice against the GRT community. As has been pointed out, if you substitute "gypsy" for "black" it would go down a storm at a KKK rally; you'd have Tories roaring in the aisles if you used "trade unionists". What Carr said to justify the joke was bullshit - he tells you in the joke that thousands of gypsies were murdered in concentration camps so the "it's educational" point he makes afterwards is redundant. He doesn't ask the audience to think about what they just laughed at.

 

It's not that I find the joke offensive, it's the reaction of the audience that makes me uncomfortable. 

 

[Fugitive]

I'm at the point that I'm scared to do a 'Knock, Knock' joke now just incase the homeless decide to mobilise and cancel me.

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

It’s fucking obvious, if you arrive looking be offended and not think I can’t help you.  

Did you just shart Alphabetti Spaghetti all over that post?

 

Can you please just answer two simple questions:

1. On that earlier post, were you talking about your opinion or something Jimmy Carr said?

2. What law were you on about in your post above?

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, mars said:

It's a joke Bernard Manning would have been proud of. One of the reasons it works as a joke is because it taps into people's prejudice against the GRT community. As has been pointed out, if you substitute "gypsy" for "black" it would go down a storm at a KKK rally; you'd have Tories roaring in the aisles if you used "trade unionists". What Carr said to justify the joke was bullshit - he tells you in the joke that thousands of gypsies were murdered in concentration camps so the "it's educational" point he makes afterwards is redundant. He doesn't ask the audience to think about what they just laughed at.

 

It's not that I find the joke offensive, it's the reaction of the audience that makes me uncomfortable. 

 

If you put black or gay it wouldn’t work because black and gay people arent viewed at all like gypsies.   I may be wrong but there hasn’t been a black or gay thread on here slagging them off over several years.  Search ‘pikey’ and see what you get on this site. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Just now, Fugitive said:

I'm at the point that I'm scared to a 'Knock, Knock' joke now just incase the homeless decide to mobilise and cancel me.

 

 

Hilarious.

 

If you're scared of offending disabled people, all you need to do is not try to get a laugh by saying "it was good that the Nazis killed disabled people".

[TheHowieLama]

31 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

 How black do you have to be to say it?   

A bit more than Rogan apparently.

 

 

The US podcast host Joe Rogan has issued an apology over his past use of racist language on his popular show.

A widely-shared compilation video showed him repeatedly using the N-word in early episodes of his show, which has been running for over a decade.

The 54-year offered his "deepest" apologies and called his past use of the slur "shameful".

"I do hope that this can be a teachable moment for anybody that doesn't know how offensive that word can be coming out of a white person's mouth," the Spotify star said.

 

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Did you just start Alphabetti Spaghetti all over that post?

 

Can you please just answer two simple questions:

1. On that earlier post, were you talking about your opinion or something Jimmy Carr said?

2. What law were you on about in your post above?

Both. 
 

Reducing online harms bill. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

Both. 
 

Reducing online harms bill. 

1. Thank you. (Wasn't hard, was it.)

2. I'll have to look into that, but the way you describe it sounds shite.

[Fugitive]

9 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Hilarious.

 

If you're scared of offending disabled people, all you need to do is not try to get a laugh by saying "it was good that the Nazis killed disabled people".

Nah, I reckon could have most of them... They are disabled and I fancy my chances.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

2 minutes ago, Fugitive said:

Nah, I reckon could have most of them... They are disabled and I fancy my chances.

Surely it depends if they're leg disabled or head disabled?

[Jack the Sipper]

It's a bit strange how this has taken off now, given it was aired a month ago, and the fact that Carr, along with other British comedians, have said things that I would consider just as likely to offend as this. 

 

I think people really need to learn to distinguish between a comedian telling a joke, and a politician, say, arguing a serious point on Question Time. Carr clearly is a comedian, who's known for his deliberately offensive humour and whose targets are far and wide. If he spent his career going after gypsies in the same way that Manning went after ethnic minorities, there many be an argument that he has an agenda beyond shocking people and making them laugh. As he doesn't, there isn't, in my view. 

 

Still, what's even more hilarious than Carr's Holocaust jokes are the freedom of speech martyrs like that mentalist Dorries tying themselves in knots over this.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/05/nadine-dorries-proposes-law-to-rein-in-streamers-after-shocking-jimmy-carr-joke