Cancel Culture

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 hours ago, Strontium said:

 

Right, well what you are doing is the equivalent of taking a specific two letter phrase out of Oliver's Army by Elvis Costello, then declaring him a racist based on that.

No it isn't.

 

I've heard all of Oliver's Army.  I've seen all of Blazing Saddles.  I've heard all of that joke.

 

You mentioned earlier that you've made Holocaust jokes yourself, but we're they on the theme of "I'm saying it's good that people were murdered; aren't I hilariously risqué?" 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

The best Holocaust joke is the one that ends ‘you had to be there’.

My favourite is "What's worse than finding a worm in your apple?"

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Did Wolfie kick off about them in that thread?

 

 

Just bore off and go and read it.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, cloggypop said:

He's a shite Jerry Sadowitz without the magic. 

Jerry Sadowitz is unique.  There are comedians who fancy themselves as a bit edgy because they say stuff you're not supposed to say, but generally they only say stuff that their audiences - whether right wing or left - more or less support.  Sadowitz says stuff to offend everyone.  So you might laugh along when he's doing tasteless stuff about the Tories, but then get genuinely shocked when he tells a Grenfell joke. (No doubt, some other cunt would laugh and get shocked at the opposite times to me.) Any halfway decent person would think "you've gone too far now, you cunt" at least once or twice in one of his shows. But the rest of the show is very funny.

[A Red]

What about the cunt, not a comedian obviously, that decided that wearing a t-shirt with something about the Hillsborough deaths being gods way of helping Rentokil. That was his idea of a joke. Freedom of speech

[AngryOfTuebrook]

FWIW, I posted about Carr's racist-as-fuck attempt at a joke on the Racism thread, rather than this one. I'm not a fan of putting people in the stocks or banning them because they say one fucking awful thing: I'd rather someone just point out to him why this is so hateful and give him the chance to either learn from it or follow the Jim Davidson path and make a career of it.

[A Red]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

FWIW, I posted about Carr's racist-as-fuck attempt at a joke on the Racism thread, rather than this one. I'm not a fan of putting people in the stocks or banning them because they say one fucking awful thing: I'd rather someone just point out to him why this is so hateful and give him the chance to either learn from it or follow the Jim Davidson path and make a career of it.

Its hate speech it doesn't matter if its Gypsies, Jews or black people. He, like Boyle, is careful not to have a go about Islam or Allah, they're not that cutting edge. 

 

Saying that a group of people being murdered is good news should really be up there with derogatory terms used such as the N word etc. and yes I would include taig and hun.

 

[skend04]

3 hours ago, A Red said:

Its hate speech it doesn't matter if its Gypsies, Jews or black people. He, like Boyle, is careful not to have a go about Islam or Allah, they're not that cutting edge. 

 

Saying that a group of people being murdered is good news should really be up there with derogatory terms used such as the N word etc. and yes I would include taig and hun.

 

To be fair, both the comedian and the audience would have know about Islam to make jokes about Islam. Otherwise there's only 2 or 3 at a push before you lose the crowd  If you want to listen to jokes about Islam, or Muslims just hunt out Muslim comedians. I don't think Boyle or Carr or most other non-muslim comedians would be able to joke about something they don't know.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

9 hours ago, SasaS said:

Stanhope would get that video.

Even he would be ringing the po-po.

[VladimirIlyich]

11 hours ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Or you can choose not to be offended.
 

Does it affect you personally?

 

I can understand the Jewish communities being offended, however non-Jews getting offended? Don’t get that. 
 

You can say it’s wrong of course, but why do people need to be offended if it has no direct impact on them?
 

It’s like people need to jump on a cause showing moral outrage and trying to be more outrage than the person who has just responded with outrage to them. 

 

If they think it’s wrong, it is still important that they have the barometer of jokes like Carr’s to know where their line of comedy is. 

 

 

 

 

Ah,the Everton syndrome!

[Skidfingers McGonical]

9 hours ago, cloggypop said:

He's a shite Jerry Sadowitz without the magic. 

Negged. 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

7 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Just bore off and go and read it.

I’ve read it more times than I care to remember.
 

Did you have the same reaction to the bad taste jokes made in there? Or are some things allowed to be joked about compared to others? 
 

 

 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

4 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Ah,the Everton syndrome!

How so? 
 

 

 

 

[Rico1304]

10 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

I’ve read it more times than I care to remember.
 

Did you have the same reaction to the bad taste jokes made in there? Or are some things allowed to be joked about compared to others? 
 

 

 

It’s always the same. Everything is funny until it’s the thing that really matters to you.
 

I mean it’s ok to sing about the death of

a woman as long as you didn’t like her (I think you can guess the one I mean.  And I couldnt care less before anyone starts) 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

7 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

No it isn't.

 

I've heard all of Oliver's Army.  I've seen all of Blazing Saddles.  I've heard all of that joke.

 

You mentioned earlier that you've made Holocaust jokes yourself, but we're they on the theme of "I'm saying it's good that people were murdered; aren't I hilariously risqué?" 

It seems you and us are having a

different conversation about this to you. And you seem to be shouting loudest because of it. Nobody has said it wasn’t wrong. 
 

You are right to point out that it’s wrong, others are also right to point out how it was set up (Carr has used this gag twice before and I think it was Willard who points this out) and context. A great comedian will make it through provoking and get a laugh in the right way at the same time. 
 

Also, my point was about being outraged for outrage sake in a world that is feeding off outrage to
 

Can you control what is said and done by others? No. Can you point out it’s wrong and horrible, yes most certainly. 
 

However to be really outraged surely it has to impact you on a personal level to provide that amount of anger? I mean what impact does a joke about Romany Gypsies really have on you? 

I pissed myself at that video I posted last night to Stronts. The reason I laughed was because it was a Jewish comedian (who was very close to becoming an Orthodox Jew after studying the texts) pushing the boundaries on that subject matter. If it was a non-Jewish person, I doubt I would have found the lines Shaffir was coming out with funny. It’s all about context when it comes to comedy. Something I am sure you are fully aware of.
 

I do find it interesting how you jump to defence of Labour and the ongoing issue of the anti-semitism accusations labelled at the party.

When some of the examples are anti-Semitic and Stronts for example (just using him as a relevant example and not to bring him into the argument) points it out you are quick to jump on him for being wrong and accuse him of being a liar.
 

So it’s not on for Stronts to be outraged about something that has an impact on him, yet you can cry your arse about how the accusations are false and disgraceful and it’s that’s the end of it. You’re always right. 
 

It certainly looks like a wagon load of self righteous hypocrisy on your part from where I am sat.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

I’ve read it more times than I care to remember.
 

Did you have the same reaction to the bad taste jokes made in there? Or are some things allowed to be joked about compared to others? 
 

 

 

I honestly can't remember if I've ever read the thread. I've always assumed it was just speculation on theories about what happened to the poor girl. I've got no interest in that sort of thing, so I tend to swerve the thread.

 

Since you're interested, I think jokes about dead children are tasteless and usually unfunny, so they're best avoided; but, they're not hate speech. They're not designed to appeal to people who are antipathetic towards children, to the point of agreeing with excessive restrictions on children's freedoms, indifference towards regular verbal and violent attacks on children, and finding the mass murder of children funny.

[Bjornebye]

Everyone clearly has differing views on what is and isn't offensive and of course people will be offended by things others aren't and vice versa. That's normal and just shows that there is no definitive answer.

 

That said, jokes about the holocaust are probably best being given a wide berth IMO. Would Jimmy Carr have made a similar joke but used "Jews" instead of "Gypsies" ? I very much doubt it. 

[Rico1304]

16 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I honestly can't remember if I've ever read the thread. I've always assumed it was just speculation on theories about what happened to the poor girl. I've got no interest in that sort of thing, so I tend to swerve the thread.

 

Since you're interested, I think jokes about dead children are tasteless and usually unfunny, so they're best avoided; but, they're not hate speech. They're not designed to appeal to people who are antipathetic towards children, to the point of agreeing with excessive restrictions on children's freedoms, indifference towards regular verbal and violent attacks on children, and finding the mass murder of children funny.

Do you think Jimmy Carr was appealing to people who hate gypsies? Really?  He’s a multimillionaire at the top of the comedy pyramid and he suddenly thought ‘Right, what my career needs now is a load of rabid racists coming to my shows to hear jokes about gypsies’. 

[Section_31]

5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Everyone clearly has differing views on what is and isn't offensive and of course people will be offended by things others aren't and vice versa. That's normal and just shows that there is no definitive answer.

 

That said, jokes about the holocaust are probably best being given a wide berth IMO. Would Jimmy Carr have made a similar joke but used "Jews" instead of "Gypsies" ? I very much doubt it. 

 

Comedy is often offensive though, has body heard the lyrics to everyone has Aids?

 

I don't remember politicians descending on Twitter in their droves espousing outrage.

 

Some of the stuff you hear in stage shows is close to the bone and often offensive, if I think that I steer clear of it, but don't think the person saying it should be strung up.

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

45 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

It seems you and us are having a

different conversation about this to you. And you seem to be shouting loudest because of it. Nobody has said it wasn’t wrong. 
 

You are right to point out that it’s wrong, others are also right to point out how it was set up (Carr has used this gag twice before and I think it was Willard who points this out) and context. A great comedian will make it through provoking and get a laugh in the right way at the same time. 
 

Also, my point was about being outraged for outrage sake in a world that is feeding off outrage to
 

Can you control what is said and done by others? No. Can you point out it’s wrong and horrible, yes most certainly. 
 

However to be really outraged surely it has to impact you on a personal level to provide that amount of anger? I mean what impact does a joke about Romany Gypsies really have on you? 

I pissed myself at that video I posted last night to Stronts. The reason I laughed was because it was a Jewish comedian (who was very close to becoming an Orthodox Jew after studying the texts) pushing the boundaries on that subject matter. If it was a non-Jewish person, I doubt I would have found the lines Shaffir was coming out with funny. It’s all about context when it comes to comedy. Something I am sure you are fully aware of.
 

I do find it interesting how you jump to defence of Labour and the ongoing issue of the anti-semitism accusations labelled at the party.

When some of the examples are anti-Semitic and Stronts for example (just using him as a relevant example and not to bring him into the argument) points it out you are quick to jump on him for being wrong and accuse him of being a liar.
 

So it’s not on for Stronts to be outraged about something that has an impact on him, yet you can cry your arse about how the accusations are false and disgraceful and it’s that’s the end of it. You’re always right. 
 

It certainly looks like a wagon load of self righteous hypocrisy on your part from where I am sat.

Then you're sat in the wrong place. Pull your pompous head out of your hypocritical arse and sit up straight.

 

There's a difference between poor taste and hate speech. Jimmy Carr has made a career out of poor taste jokes; that "isn't genocide funny, when the victims are people we don't care about" joke crosses a line into hate speech. 

 

My main concern is with the Netflix editors and executives who decided that line was fit to make the cut.  Just swap Gypsies for any of the other groups exterminated by the Nazis and imagine them signing that off.

 

So, I'm not going to boost their ratings by watching the show to get this powerful context - so powerful, it can make genocide OK - context people keep referring to.  If anyone has got a longer clip to prove their point, that would be just fine.  Until then, all I've got is a bloke boosting the last acceptable form of racism with hate speech.

 

Giving a shit about stuff that affects people who aren't us is just basic humanity.  Your argument against empathy marks you down as an utter cunt. 

 

You keep using the word "outrage".  I don't know where you're getting that from. If I got outraged at every egregious bit of hate speech I ever saw, I'd have no time for anything else. I posted the Jimmy Carr thing on the Racism thread, because it's racist; I then came here and found people contorting themselves into ways to try to argue that this specific bit of racism is OK. It isn't.

 

(As for your horse shit about Stronts and Corbyn and anti-Semitism - go fuck yourself.  I have never defended or excused or equivocated about anti-Semitism.  I will only call out lies when I see them: I won't call people liars indiscriminately. There's hundreds of posts across too many threads that will bear me out on that.)

[Bjornebye]

8 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

Comedy is often offensive though, has body heard the lyrics to everyone has Aids?

 

I don't remember politicians descending on Twitter in their droves espousing outrage.

 

Some of the stuff you hear in stage shows is close to the bone and often offensive, if I think that I steer clear of it, but don't think the person saying it should be strung up.

 

 

I agree and I'm not asking for him to be strung up, I just think he's stupid for making a joke about the holocaust when it could easily go the wrong way and potentially cost him his reputation/career. He's best to have left it alone and gone for disabled children....  I'm not being prudish, I'll admit to having laughed at Bernard Manning and other offensive jokes. I didn't find jimmy Carrs funny at all but it's the topic that put that barrier up for me. 

 

It's beyond a 'taboo' subject. Just my opinion. If people find holocaust jokes funny then they can crack on. 

 

Anyway like I said, everyones reaction to everything is different so I won't be taking a moral high-ground here. If I was his manager I'd be fucking fuming with him though. If I was his accountant I'd be delighted. 

[Section_31]

5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I agree and I'm not asking for him to be strung up, I just think he's stupid for making a joke about the holocaust when it could easily go the wrong way and potentially cost him his reputation/career. He's best to have left it alone and gone for disabled children....  I'm not being prudish, I'll admit to having laughed at Bernard Manning and other offensive jokes. I didn't find jimmy Carrs funny at all but it's the topic that put that barrier up for me. 

 

It's beyond a 'taboo' subject. Just my opinion. If people find holocaust jokes funny then they can crack on. 

 

Anyway like I said, everyones reaction to everything is different so I won't be taking a moral high-ground here. if I was his manager I'd be fucking fuming with him though. If I was his accountant I'd be delighted. 

 

Yeah we don't fundamentally disagree on this issue. I just find it odd that things which didn't bother people five years ago now seems to outrage everybody. One would think everyone is getting nicer, but a quick look around at mobs of people blocking in RNLI lifeboats trying to head out to sea to rescue refugees, or the rise in foodbanks and all the rest of it, would indicate that's not the case. 

 

Half the channel 5 programming agenda revolves around taking the piss out of gypsies, and you can imagine some of the shit that gets spouted by people when a caravan turns up near the local cricket ground.

 

It's the disingenuous 'for show' aspect of it which I can't abide, but that's social media for you I guess.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Do you think Jimmy Carr was appealing to people who hate gypsies? Really?  He’s a multimillionaire at the top of the comedy pyramid and he suddenly thought ‘Right, what my career needs now is a load of rabid racists coming to my shows to hear jokes about gypsies’. 

I think he was getting a cheap laugh. 

 

His career is built on (as he describes it) getting people to laugh at stuff they shouldn't laugh at; he loves the sound of an audience laughing, followed by an intake of breath as they realise "that's not right". Fair play to him. That's what tasteless humour is all about.  Personally, I love stuff like that and I think Jimmy Carr is really funny.  (As a stand-up, I think his material is good, but his delivery is a bit shit; but that's another story.)

 

But there's a risk of misjudging it and going too far. That's what he's done here. He's strayed into hate speech. As a joke, it works the same if you replace Gypsies with Jews, Gays, Blacks, Socialists or disabled people.  But he knows it's career suicide to do that: the only reason he (and Netflix) decided that joke was OK is the thought that Gypsies are fair game for hate speech. If you're anti-racist, you've really got to take the view that it's not OK.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

13 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

Comedy is often offensive though, has body heard the lyrics to everyone has Aids?

 

I don't remember politicians descending on Twitter in their droves espousing outrage.

 

Some of the stuff you hear in stage shows is close to the bone and often offensive, if I think that I steer clear of it, but don't think the person saying it should be strung up.

 

 

Tasteless comedy is not the same as hate speech.

 

Jimmy Carr has an entire career of tasteless comedy. This line was hate speech.

 

I honestly thought the difference was glaringly obvious and wouldn't need points out.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Section_31 said:

 

Yeah we don't fundamentally disagree on this issue. I just find it odd that things which didn't bother people five years ago now seems to outrage everybody. One would think everyone is getting nicer, but a quick look around at mobs of people blocking in RNLI lifeboats trying to head out to sea to rescue refugees, or the rise in foofbanks and all the rest of it, would indicate that's not the case. 

 

Half the channel 5 programming agenda revolves around taking the piss out of gypsies, and you can imagine some of the shit that gets spouted by people when a caravan turns up near the local cricket ground.

 

It's the disingenuous 'for show' aspect of it which I can't abide, but that's social media for you I guess.

I've said for ages that the likes of the Daily mail are driving an agenda and using 'woke' as a tool against left leaning people. The migrant 'crisis' has been spun to create more outrage from those with less human empathy.