Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Red Phoenix]

30 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/04/labour-antisemitism-party-left-bigotry

 

The fucking state of that from Harris. Was just going to mention it after reading through it. Another journo who just hasn't happened to notice one of the biggest smear campaigns in recent memory against Corbyn and Labour. Completely innocent mistake of course. Even manages to get a dig in at Liverpool in the process so it's all good.

 

Don't usually see these articles with an open comment section either. I wonder why that is? Maybe they think it'd be too much hassle editing out the truthful comments (removed because of community standards obviously) and leaving in the ones that paint the picture they want others to see.

[Red Phoenix]

This explains a good part of the strategy by the looks of it :

 

 

 

[Red Phoenix]

Momentum could be fucked now too. This is from the @LabGrassroots twitter account. Have made it into two quote sections for people sick of clicking on twitter threads :

 

Quote

It gives us no pleasure to say that Momentum is finished. Along with thousands of other members, we signed up for the idea of a grassroots movement, connected to communities, playing a supportive but independent role in relation to the leadership of @jeremycorbyn

 

Most of the Labour left who supported the Corbyn project invested a large amount of effort in trying to make it work & had great hopes, but a pivotal moment came when Lansman decided, unilaterally, to shut down regional representation & democracy in Momentum.

What that turned Momentum into was a small, London-based clique, in the service of Jon and the people around him. On what sort of planet did this match what people had signed up for and how could it possibly represent & listen to the membership of the organisation?

When, in addition, Lansman started taking unilateral decisions totally at odds with the membership of Momentum, it was becoming clear to many of us, that bar a major overhaul of the organisation, it would never deliver the grassroots representation & organisation we needed.

The grassroots of the Labour Party need a positive, campaigning, organising body which networks our members while educating them in socialist politics, anti-racism & the history of the labour movement. One that is supportive to the leader, but also a hub for socialist ideas.

We need a body that speaks for all parts of the UK, which is brave in seeking out communities which currently don’t support the party, listens & gives them a voice. We don’t need a Progress-style vehicle for a privileged group who already have a voice.

 

 

Quote

There must be literally thousands of people who’ve left Momentum in the last few days. A trickle has become a torrent. But here’s the important thing: don’t leave @UKLabour. This is our party, and though things are tough at the moment, we will win this if we stay together.

 

Demoralisation is understandable, but nothing would give our opponents greater pleasure than to see the thousands of people who joined the party in 2015, inspired by @jeremycorbyn, leave quietly through the back door. Stay, get together with other socialists & build again.

Other networks & structures will undoubtedly emerge over the coming months to pull us together nationally, but on a practical, local level, why not just use social media to advertise a get together with LP socialists in a pub or club, talk & support each other & plan ahead?

With all due respect (and we do mean that) it’s not really up to a small band of blue tick lefty celebrities to determine the direction of the movement which has been the cornerstone of @jeremycorbyn’s leadership. We need democratic, representative leadership, across the country.

 

[Rico1304]

Laura Murray, who works for Corbyn seems to have deleted her Twitter account after libelling RR.  Not a good look for him is it?  

[SasaS]

Why are Palestine and Israel such a big issue for the Left in the UK? It's not like the UK is an important player there and Israel depends on the policies set in London? And for that matter, why would Israel be so involved in plotting and conspiring in the UK, is it the British media global reach and influence or what?

[aRdja]

It makes one wonder if Williamson was right that Labour were too apologetic over this anti-semitism saga. Could they have used it to attack the tories and/or UKIP over the treatment of Luciana Berger?

[aRdja]

1 minute ago, SasaS said:

Why are Palestine and Israel such a big issue for the Left in the UK? It's not like the UK is an important player there and Israel depends on the policies set in London? And for that matter, why would Israel be so involved in plotting and conspiring in the UK, is it the British media global reach and influence or what?

It has always been for Corbyn. He’s always been vocal regarding his support of the oppressed. He strikes me as a genuine bloke too. He’s not gonna change now. 

[Jairzinho]

9 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Why are Palestine and Israel such a big issue for the Left in the UK? It's not like the UK is an important player there and Israel depends on the policies set in London? And for that matter, why would Israel be so involved in plotting and conspiring in the UK, is it the British media global reach and influence or what?

It would appear to be. Hence the existence and influence of Labour/Tory friends of Israel, and the various nefarious desires/actions seen in that Al Jazeera documentary.

[Jenson]

James Cleverley's response to Riley's tweet digging at Owen Jones is a fucking disgrace for a man in his position. He really is an utter worm.

[Strontium]

4 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Again, it's only hypocritical if you're too dense to spot the categorical difference between Nazis and democratic politicians.  On past form, I think you may be, so it's no surprise to see you giving credence to Riley's stupid trolling.

 

Are you so dense that you can't see that when you normalise political violence, you don't have any control over who it gets used against?

[The Guest]

1 hour ago, Red Phoenix said:

Momentum could be fucked now too. This is from the @LabGrassroots twitter account. Have made it into two quote sections for people sick of clicking on twitter threads :

 

 

It’s such a shame really.  It’s another example of the left eating itself.  I don’t really know what to make of Lansman.  Fully democratising the Labour Party and making MP’s completely accountable should be the number one aim.  Momentum is and was appearing to be pushing for that.  Not allowing it to happen within it’s in rules though is not a good thing.

 

When and if that’s achieved it will be difficult to not win elections as the tories would not be able compete.  The PLP were always going to fight tooth and nail against it because it’s their gravy train tickets we would be confiscating.

[Barrington Womble]

I don't go on twitter. I've genuinely absolutely no idea who Rachel Riley is and why her opinion is important to anyone but herself. Why is everyone providing her oxygen? 

[Strontium]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

Laura Murray, who works for Corbyn seems to have deleted her Twitter account after libelling RR.  Not a good look for him is it?  

 

Daughter of Andrew Murray isn't she?

 

I must say, what an enormous stroke of luck that the best people for these special adviser jobs are all to be found within the families of senior Corbynistas.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, Strontium Dog said:

 

Daughter of Andrew Murray isn't she?

 

I must say, what an enormous stroke of luck that the best people for these special adviser jobs are all to be found within the families of senior Corbynistas.

I’m sure no Tories or Lib Dems do exactly the same. Why single out Corbyn? 

[Strontium]

If Tories and Lib Dems do it too, then I'm sure you'll be able to cite some.

 

Take your time.

[Jenson]

Compare and contrast the media/political response of Soubry getting verbally abused by those Britain First knobheads outside Parliament and the actual physical assault, with a punch to the head not a thrown egg, of the Leader of the Opposition.

If James Cleverley wants to talk about hypocrisy (couldn't give a fuck what Riley thinks) then there it is.

[Rico1304]

3 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Did you mean to respond to my comment to you or the one to Stronts?

 

To be clear: you think punching doesn’t work, but it's funny if the person is holding an egg?

 

It's pure guesswork how we would react if Theresa May were punched in the head by someone holding an egg. (Personally, I think it would just make me a bit more gloomy about what this country has become  - but I doubt you'll believe that.) We'll never find out, because, unlike Corbyn, she never mixes with humans.

I think if he’d wanted to punch him he would have. The egg isn’t there to cause him extra suffering is it?  Unless he’s got an allergy. 

[cloggypop]

5 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

If Tories and Lib Dems do it too, then I'm sure you'll be able to cite some.

 

Take your time.

Your ma. 

 

Anyway, what inspired you to follow unsuccessfully in your families footsteps? 

[Red Phoenix]

15 minutes ago, The Guest said:

It’s such a shame really.  It’s another example of the left eating itself.  I don’t really know what to make of Lansman.  Fully democratising the Labour Party and making MP’s completely accountable should be the number one aim.  Momentum is and was appearing to be pushing for that.  Not allowing it to happen within it’s in rules though is not a good thing.

 

Was hoping Momentum would be something that could outlast any issues that resulted in Corbyn not staying as Labour leader and be something bigger for the future. Maybe it can still do some good, but reading about things not working out really sucks. Maybe it'll serve to make people aware of exactly how these groups are set up from the off in future if the stuff about one person having so much control is true.

[Section_31]

Whatever happens to Corbyn and Momentum, the genie is out of the bottle on both sides of the Atlantic. Sanders used to be a lone voice and seen as a bit of a crank, now he looks like a centrist compared to some of the up-and-coming new generation of politicians over there. Unthinkable years ago, absolutely unthinkable. 

 

Same over here. People's anger and dismay has been hijacked and deflected, but it's still there and something will come after Corbyn and after momentum.

 

A decade ago nobody knew what 'the 1%' was, or what 'money in politics' was, even though these  things had been around since day dot. 

 

Wealth is all about tipping points. People will eat shit as long as they're reasonably safe and comfortable. In the past, we were pretty good in the West at managing that tipping point. 

 

In France, the wealthy paraded around in gold carriages eating humming birds and they all ended up getting their heads cut off. In Britain, even  though our ruling class lived in manor houses and were quite clearly bruistered, they answered the front door in a tweed jacket with holes in, sponsored the local orphanage and went to church, this seemed to be enough to make Joe Six Pack think they weren't all that bad. 

 

The credit crunch was started by those at the top over-reaching, instead of stepping back they reached even further, dismantling the very t hings that educate your kids and keep your grandparents alive, people are angry but don't know where to put it. They should be putting it in a left wing people's movement, but it's being deflected by the media which is all bought and paid for by the above - the anger won't go away though and will come back as something else. We're entering an era where people will quite simply have nothing to lose. 

 

 

[moof]

5 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/04/labour-antisemitism-party-left-bigotry

What a surprise, complete fucking drivel 

[Rico1304]

Rachel Swindon gone now too.  This is very funny to watch. 

[aRdja]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47438562

 

Fucking hell, he was actually smacked in the head! “assault by beating”. Poor bloke. This demonisation by the media really needs to stop before it does even more harm. Jo Cox’s murder was only a couple of years ago. Drawing comparisons between Jeremy Corbyn and the Nazi is overstepping the line IMO however much you disagree with his politics.

[Anubis]

13 minutes ago, aRdja said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47438562

 

Fucking hell, he was actually smacked in the head! “assault by beating”. Poor bloke. This demonisation by the media really needs to stop before it does even more harm. Jo Cox’s murder was only a couple of years ago. Drawing comparisons between Jeremy Corbyn and the Nazi is overstepping the line IMO however much you disagree with his politics.

 

It would have been common assault by beating even if the egg was just thrown. The words 'by beating' are used to distinguish between the two types of common assault - one involving some form of physical assault, and the other involving a perceived immediate assault where there is no physical assault.

 

Agree with your assessment of the media though. It was only a matter of time before this happened.

[Rico1304]

8 minutes ago, Anubis said:

 

It would have been common assault by beating even if the egg was just thrown. The words 'by beating' are used to distinguish between the two types of common assault - one involving some form of physical assault, and the other involving a perceived immediate assault where there is no physical assault.

 

Agree with your assessment of the media though. It was only a matter of time before this happened.

He’ll no doubt be whisked off to prison.