Whistleblower exposes MMR Autism link

[Boss]

I'm sure I heard on a BBC science programme that the radiation released from Fukushima is about the same as an MRI...I'll check and be back. It was on a podcast but can't remember who said it, it was a woman and she was bemoaning the general lack of scientific understanding and twisting of headlines.

 

Haha 

[Rico1304]

I can't find the podcast (didn't look very hard to be honest) but doses do seem very low. Not saying it was a good thing and I'm glad it hasn't in my back yard but scaremongering sells papers...to mongs.

 

It was CT scans, and Sue Ion (more nominative determinism)

[Boss]

I can't find the podcast (didn't look very hard to be honest) but doses do seem very low. Not saying it was a good thing and I'm glad it hasn't in my back yard but scaremongering sells papers...to mongs.

 

It was CT scans, and Sue Ion (more nominative determinism)

 

Don't listen to her Rico, she's talking complete bollocks, MRI's don't contain radiation it uses magnetic energy, CT scans do though. The average CT scan contains 13 msv (millisieverts) of radiation in one dose. Fukushima levels are 1800-2200 msv per hour, so extrapolate that out as 24 hours over 3 years and 5 months that's 59,856,000 msv's of radiation that have leaked into the sea and or environment. That's not including the explosion and the original radiation levels after the crisis which were immeasurable, kind of puts it in perspective.

[Rico1304]

Don't listen to her Rico, she's talking complete bollocks, MRI's don't contain radiation it uses magnetic energy, CT scans do though. The average CT scan contains 13 msv (millisieverts) of radiation in one dose. Fukushima levels are 1800-2200 msv per hour, so extrapolate that out as 24 hours over 3 years and 5 months that's 59,856,000 msv's of radiation that have leaked into the sea and or environment. That's not including the explosion and the original radiation levels after the crisis which were immeasurable, kind of puts it in perspective.

I may have heard it wrong, so don't blame her. Although I've looked and it does seem that the radiation risk is small. Virtually negligible.

[Spy Bee]

This is the thought process of quite a few posters

1. Conspiracy theory
2. Must deny
3. Must find info to support my point of view

In fairness the FDA are a paragon of virtue who are totally beyond reproach, and big pharma only have the interests of poorly people in mind.

[Rico1304]

This is the thought process of quite a few posters;

 

1) Something happens

2) take no notice of the thousands of witnesses

3) take no notice of thousands of relevantly qualified experts with no skin in the game

4) Blame x (where x represents the loony fringe's pet fall guy for this particular theory)

[Spy Bee]

In recent times The Dallas Buyers Club has got quite a lot of publicity and shown how the pharmaceutical industry is in inherently corrupt and the FDA is at best ineffective and at worst a puppet to the industry that it is supposed to regulate. Also in recent times we have seen the Tamiflu story, where it shows that this drug was no more effective than paracetamol in saving lives or reducing symptoms.

 

These of course are issues that have come to light - maybe because nobody is really going to be sued in these cases? - so you'd hope that other issues will be brought into the public domain, if and when there is enough evidence to prove it. I think that's a very optimistic sentiment though.  

 

Has anyone read Big Pharma?

[Ginny]

This is the thought process of quite a few posters;

 

1) Something happens

2) take no notice of the thousands of witnesses

3) take no notice of thousands of relevantly qualified experts with no skin in the game

4) Blame x (where x represents the loony fringe's pet fall guy for this particular theory)

Haha - no skin in the game. Class saying that. 

 

Conspiracy theories are everywhere now. The people are growing very suspicious of everything they are being told. Rightly so. Imagine what its gonna be like in a few more years. People just want more transparency based on ethics and truth - not profit and lies which is the way the world has been run for the last few hundred years. 

 

Whistle blowers are at a record high and a lot of the 'norms' are being challenged. I think its great. 

[Strontium]

I'm sure I heard on a BBC science programme that the radiation released from Fukushima is about the same as an MRI...I'll check and be back. It was on a podcast but can't remember who said it, it was a woman and she was bemoaning the general lack of scientific understanding and twisting of headlines.

 

It won't be an MRI, but your overriding point is correct.

 

A year in the Fukushima exclusion zone will expose you to around 25 mSV, which is half the maximum permitted annual dose for nuclear industry workers in the USA.

 

The lowest annual dose definitively linked to an increased cancer risk is 100 mSV.

 

Not that I would especially recommend it as a holiday destination, but you could quite happily spend extended periods of time even very near Fukushima without any serious risk of harm.

[Strontium]

It's no longer being used in vaccines in America and the EU for newly created vaccines, but they are still out there being given as MMR jabs, do you not understand that?

 

No, you're wrong. It was phased out of most vaccines in 2001. This did nothing to slow the increase in autism diagnoses.

 

Secondly i've never said mercury containing vaccines are the sole cause of autism, but it's a contributing factor.

 

No it isn't. It cannot possibly be, because autism develops in the womb.

[Strontium]

 

Haha - no skin in the game. Class saying that. 

 

Conspiracy theories are everywhere now. The people are growing very suspicious of everything they are being told. Rightly so. Imagine what its gonna be like in a few more years. People just want more transparency based on ethics and truth - not profit and lies which is the way the world has been run for the last few hundred years. 

 

Whistle blowers are at a record high and a lot of the 'norms' are being challenged. I think its great.

 

 

Yeah, it's just great that children are getting easily preventable diseases because their parents believe lies spread by professional morons.

 

And unfortunately, it impacts us all, because a drop in the uptake of vaccination has a negative impact on herd immunity, so you can be affected even if you've been vaccinated.

[Spy Bee]

Whistleblowers are obviously a good thing. Children getting preventable diseases or dying is obviously a bad thing, but I don't think you'll find anybody advocating that!

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Haha - no skin in the game. Class saying that. 

 

Conspiracy theories are everywhere now. The people are growing very suspicious of everything they are being told. Rightly so. Imagine what its gonna be like in a few more years. People just want more transparency based on ethics and truth - not profit and lies which is the way the world has been run for the last few hundred years. 

 

Whistle blowers are at a record high and a lot of the 'norms' are being challenged. I think its great. 

The worrying thing is that there are a lot of people who won't believe anything, even important, proven facts and honest advice, because the authorities delivering that information are tainted by other times when they've acted dishonestly.

 

There really is no reason to suspect that MMR causes autism, but the Governments, scientists, doctors and pharmacists who keep repeating that until they're blue in the face are widely ignored, because trust has broken down to the extent that parents are prepared to put their own children in danger, rather than listen to official guidance.

 

It is truly tragic.

[Croque Monsieur]

Yeah have already looked into it, and have found papers. You should check flouride too, it's another one. Badly fucked up. It's almost like the population are lab rats.

 

 

Yeah, Fluoride. Forced medication used to dumb down the population. Nazi Germany called it Eugenics, we call it Dental care!

Jesus Christ, not this old chestnut.

 

[bossy]

It's quite worrying, regardless, that many don't question the scientific community after every other 'wing' of the establishment has been shown to be corrupt. Surely we can no longer accept everything we're taught. How do you choose to believe science? Those flu vaccines a year or two ago were extremely dodgy.

[Spy Bee]

£500m on Tamiflu. It's like watching Utopia all over again!

[Stu Monty]

 

 

 

I'm sure there are a few corrupted scientists in the pay of the fossil fuel industry, however the scientific consensus is that climate change is caused by anthropogenic carbon dioxide.

 

The funny thing is, Stu, with your example of climate change denial funded by the fossil fuel industry, you've actually demonstrated how uncorrupted science is by money, because the vast, vast majority of scientists subscribe to the idea that fossil fuels do cause climate change.

 

This is why you need to look at the scientific consensus. Selecting a few favoured scientists who will say what you want them to, like the fossil fuel industry and the anti-vaccination cranks do, amounts to cherry-picking.

So how does not publishing trials fit into your idea of profit not corrupting science?

[Jose Jones]

So how does not publishing trials fit into your idea of profit not corrupting science?

 

Profit corrupts some scientists.

Profit does not corrupt science.

[Stu Monty]

Profit corrupts some scientists.

Profit does not corrupt science.

 

The whole trial system is not some scientists. It's the pharmaceutical industry.

 

I love the idea of the likes of Monsanto following the best science available as opposed to what is most profitable, but then I love the idea of Santa Claus too. It doesn't make him any more real.

[Spy Bee]

There's evidence of a 12 year old who was gang raped giving their clothes to police as evidence and the police 'losing' them! FFS!

[mgw100]

It's quite reasonable to be sceptical of information provided by anyone, be they government sources, representatives of large corporate bodies or so called whistleblowers. As we know, rewards drives behaviours.

 

That does mean though that we should be equally sceptical about the motives of all sources of information, not just authorised ones.

 

With that in mind, how do I decide whether to vaccinate my child?

[Spy Bee]

With that in mind, how do I decide whether to vaccinate my child?

You gain as much information as you can from a wide variety of sources. You decide how much value you place in each source and balance it out to make your own decision.

[mgw100]

Only very few of us are armed with the skills to effectively interpret the different sources of information

[Rico1304]

Uta Frith might be a good place to start.

[Spy Bee]

Only very few of us are armed with the skills to effectively interpret the different sources of information

Well aye, but that's just the way it is. Some choose to believe they ca cure cancer by only eating beetroot and Wham bars, some will follow the guidelines of health bodies. 

 

As an aside, I know a guy from Ireland who had chemo for cancer, which cured him but left him with gallbladder problems. He was told it needed to be removed, but by following some very expensive advice from a clinic in the US he was able to repair the damage through diet and when tested again was fine. He then got secondary cancer and is now following the US clinic advice, which says by following a diet for the next two years he can cure the cancer. What's right or wrong? He could die either way.

 

He's going down this course, because he went to the states with his son and they diagnosed a birth injury problem, and cured it without surgey. This was a problem which had left him with severely restricted movement in his arm and shoulder. The NHS solution was to cut muscles and pin the arm. After the treatment from the US clinic, he now has full movement. (For info they basically did some very simple but specific chiropractor type stuff). He's also going down that course because he's loaded and can pay for some very expensive advice.

 

Most people will follow the official and most readily accessible advice, and I think that is generally the most sensible route, but when you start to mistrust everything you are told by governmental bodies, then you have decisions to make.

 

I certainly wouldn't advocate not following this advice, and in this case not getting your child immunised with MMR, but if I had a kid who was due the immunisation and I had my doubts, I would read long and hard before deciding.