There is nothing wrong with our midfield

[Pureblood]

What about Hendo's delivery the other day, eh?  Gerrard might have some competition on his hands :-)

[RedRazor]

Tried to stay out of this but couldn't help myself with this post.

 

People talk sometimes as if all Gerrard does when he gets on the ball is hit 60 yard passes. I'm not saying that is what your saying here though but it's similar. You are saying that our attacking play would be just as dangerous without that side to Gerrards game and that's just ridiculous.

 

I'll admit years ago Gerrard did try and force the play probably more than he should hitting long passes but even then he was still playing intricate attacking short passes. So just ignoring that Lucas isn't capable or at least isnt confident enough of playing those attacking short passes that Gerrard does anyway. If you take away the threat of the accurate long passing of Gerrard, instantly the opposition doesn't have the fear of someone who can play it in behind. It's not as if that is the the only pass in Gerrard's locker. That will almost definitely give Coutinho, Allen and Henderson less time on the ball.

 

Taking away an asset like that fromyour deep lying player would definitely impact our attacking play and quite a lot in my opinion.

A balanced and intelligent post.

 

I would also add that imo Lucas still has a role to play at the club and I don't just mean filling in for Gerrard when we are three goals up. The lad is a talented footballer and it will be interesting to see if Rodgers can get something out of him that we haven't yet seen. We have 4-3-3 , we have the diamond - will BR pull something else out of the hat for CL games next season? Who knows.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Course it does. That was just a retorte to someone blaming Lucas for not having as many goals and assists when he's not the one taking the set pieces.

I know, and I agree with your post in general. My point here is that you could put Lucas on freekicks and pens as much as you want, he's not doing as well with them as Gerrard.

 

Of course there's more nuance. But in this case, there really needn't be. Lucas is a credible footballer. Gerrard is an incredible footballer.

[chrisbonnie]

I'd take marco reus if it was possible. Wouldn't say no to Toni Kroos either.

 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[lebron]

It's not conceivable though, seeing as no-one whips in a dead ball like Steven Gerrard, not in the premier league anyway. The best corner taker barre non,  the best free kick taker (not in terms of scoring goals) but in terms of crossing the ball into the danger zone, the others couldn't do that, certainly not as well. 

 

The players you name aren't as good as Gerrard, if Gerrard was born Catalan, he'd be playing ahead of Busquets every time, he'd walk into the Bayern side, he'd walk into any incarnation of the Real Madrid team, he's special, he's proved he can play any system, look at the way he plays under Rodgers in the DM role...

 

Just because Busquets plays in a better team, or Martinez does not make them as good a player as Gerrard. Alonso played for us, we saw first hand who was the better player. Alonso still says Gerrard's the best, to this day, Xavi sent him a shirt after the 1-2 in the Nou Camp saying "to the toughest opponent i've ever faced" signed him and Iniesta.

 

Lucas isn't a bad player, i love Lucas as a person, and he's a great servant to this club, but in a shoot out between the two as a DM, Gerrard and it's not close.

 

Bold one: I take it this is your first season watching us?

 

Second bold: Hmmmm... I preferred Alonso personally, but I'll have a wild guess that you thought Gerrard was the better player in Xabi's time here. Imo he was definitely the most important player of the two, kind of demonstrated by our decline when he left us. Have you asked/checked what Gerrard says of Xabi (not taking their personalities into account).

 

Third bold: Controlling midfielder - do keep up! As a traditional DM I'll take the pre-injury Lucas. With one recovering from injury and the other being the captain of the team, it's not really a debate, well done to you for stating the obvious...

[moof]

I'm pretty sure lebron hates Gerrard, and Carragher. Just scousers in general really. He probably hates Flanagan as well.

[moof]

Alonso more important than Gerrard. Unbelievable.

[stringvest]

I'm pretty sure lebron hates Gerrard, and Carragher. Just scousers in general really. He probably hates Flanagan as well.

It's legacy hate.

[lebron]

I know, and I agree with your post in general. My point here is that you could put Lucas on freekicks and pens as much as you want, he's not doing as well with them as Gerrard.

 

Of course there's more nuance. But in this case, there really needn't be. Lucas is a credible footballer. Gerrard is an incredible footballer.

 

No, but he wouldn't need to, as he would be at the halfwayline covering the counter-attack, while one more of our defenders/midfielders went up for the inswinging free-kick/corner from Coutinho/Suarez. I'm not really bothered with personal statistics, I care only about the team (although I'll admit I'll be happy for Suarez if he breaks some more goalscoring records - double pleasure as it'll headfuck quite a few of my Manc supporting "mates").

 

If there was a huge gap in quality concerning delivery (i.e. none of our other players could take a free-kick/corner/penalty) the importance of Gerrard's inclusion would be even greater. Doesn't really matter anyway, he's the captain, he'll play - no matter how good or poorly. He's in the (un)fortunate position that he himself can dictate when he will (or won't) be the first name on the teamsheet.

[Boss]

Bold one: I take it this is your first season watching us?

 

Second bold: Hmmmm... I preferred Alonso personally, but I'll have a wild guess that you thought Gerrard was the better player in Xabi's time here. Imo he was definitely the most important player of the two, kind of demonstrated by our decline when he left us. Have you asked/checked what Gerrard says of Xabi (not taking their personalities into account).

 

Third bold: Controlling midfielder - do keep up! As a traditional DM I'll take the pre-injury Lucas. With one recovering from injury and the other being the captain of the team, it's not really a debate, well done to you for stating the obvious...

 

I'm not getting into tit for tat, Gerrard's deep lying position coupled with the high pressing of the two in front allows us to press higher up the pitch. His set pieces, corners, penalties, also his direct free kicks ( a valuable alternative to Suarez) are vitally important to the success of this system. Put Lucas in and you take away that threat, plus the two advanced midfielders need to drop back slightly to accommodate Lucas because he hasn't got the passing range of Gerrard.

 

I disagree that Alonso's better, i disagree that pre injury Lucas is better although it's irrelevant, because we're dealing with post injury Lucas and i am keeping up with everything you've said, i just think your wrong in this instance.

[A Red]

Boss bossing it

[lebron]

I'm pretty sure lebron hates Gerrard, and Carragher. Just scousers in general really. He probably hates Flanagan as well.

 

Not even close, Gerrard is easily in my top 4/favourite Liverpool players of all time. That being said, I've been critical of him for the last few years, as I didn't think he was doing his utmost for us to be successful, and that was in my eyes not acceptable for a captain of Liverpool FC. He's a bit too moody imo, all well when the team is clicking (like in 08/09, the run-up to Istanbul, this season). I've never bought into the leading by example stuff though, he's basically been our best player for the last 15 years, no wonder he's come up with more crucial goals/assists than the others. He's never been a captain in the Vieira/Keane mould, which is what we've been crying out for for the last 20+ years. Now that he's happy with his football again, there's a desire and spark there again, and long may it continue.

 

I think I've been over the Carragher stuff one time too many, but in case you have missed it, growing up with Alan Hansen/Lawrenson, I just never held Carra to be quite the same standard. No shame in that I think. Still a great servant for us, and his performances between 05-08 (especially in the somewhat slower European games, and with the system we were playing) were mostly world class.

 

Alonso more important than Gerrard. Unbelievable.

 

Was it? 04/05 and 08/09 (especially) was just as much about Xabi giving Gerrard (and Torres) a platform to perform upon. Results from the timeperiod with/without Xabi/Gerrard gives credence to the argument at least. Alonso kept us ticking, Gerrard supplied what will go down in the statsbook and the highlight reels.

 

It's legacy hate.

 

Are you on about Benitez again? Suffice to say I've been on board the Rodgers train long since you were left pining for the misery of Kenny's reign. I don't think you should be the one educating about longing for former managers...

 

For the record: Yes, I think quite a few of the players let us, the club, the manager and themselves down towards the end of Rafa's reign. Does it happen at other clubs? Yes. Will it happen at our club again sometime? Most likely. It was never going to end well with H&G in charge anyway, and even if I might at some time in the past have been point scoring over a few of the loons saying that anybody (i.e Hodgson) would be better than Rafa, luckily both I, we (LFC) and Rafa have moved on to greener pastures.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I can stomach the comments about Gerrard and Carra, no matter how much I disagree with them, but we should get one thing straight... there's no greener pasture than being Liverpool manager. Even if there was, it certainly wouldn't be the likes of Chelsea or Napoli.

[Guest LFD]

Do people honestly still think Gerrard isn't a great captain?  Baffling really.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Do people honestly still think Gerrard isn't a great captain?  Baffling really.

I've never seen any captain drag a team out of the fire as many times as him. I've also never heard so many successive managers give a captain so much praise for how they act off the pitch in terms of bringing players into the club, making them settle well, etc.

[lebron]

I'm not getting into tit for tat, Gerrard's deep lying position coupled with the high pressing of the two in front allows us to press higher up the pitch. His set pieces, corners, penalties, also his direct free kicks ( a valuable alternative to Suarez) are vitally important to the success of this system. Put Lucas in and you take away that threat, plus the two advanced midfielders need to drop back slightly to accommodate Lucas because he hasn't got the passing range of Gerrard.

 

I disagree that Alonso's better, i disagree that pre injury Lucas is better although it's irrelevant, because we're dealing with post injury Lucas and i am keeping up with everything you've said, i just think your wrong in this instance.

 

Nah, we were just as high up the pitch (if not higher) v Spurs away. The job of Henderson and Allen/Coutinho is key in the 4-3-3 though. Once again, I've praised his set pieces, but as evidence have shown us (i.e other players chipping in with assist whenever they're on duty), it's just as much about our (and Skrtel's in particular) approach in the box these days. I think all of Coutinho, Henderson and Suarez have gotten assists from free-kicks and corners, maybe even Sterling? High-pressure pens are harder to debate of course, but I'd fancy the 2013/14 Suarez to bag a few of those as well...

 

Yeah... but as I've been trying to argue, I think we would be just as effective playing a bit shorter a bit more often. Hard to prove of course, especially since Gerrard has been ever-present, and Lucas has been out injured. Don't understand why the midfielders would have to drop back either, it's all about passing angles as far as I'm concerned. I also don't think Lucas goes quite as far back to receive the ball because he's more comfortable with receiving the ball under pressure than Stevie. He therefore doesn't have to play the long pass quite as often to get through one of the lines of defence. Could be bollocks of course, but if you'd like to check it out there's probably heat maps that will indulge your curiosity....

[lebron]

I can stomach the comments about Gerrard and Carra, no matter how much I disagree with them, but we should get one thing straight... there's no greener pasture than being Liverpool manager. Even if there was, it certainly wouldn't be the likes of Chelsea or Napoli.

 

Are you deliberately trying to misunderstand me now? Working under H&G's reign was probably the worst managerial task you could have presented to anyone not being the immediate appointment post Ferguson... I'm not a troll, even if my opionions don't exactly fit the stereotypical Liverpool supporter.

[lebron]

Do people honestly still think Gerrard isn't a great captain?  Baffling really.

 

The Gerrard of 09-12 - when the outlook is a bit bleak - not so much. The Gerrard of this season - where we're on the up - very few will argue against his influence.

[Guest LFD]

I've never seen any captain drag a team out of the fire as many times as him. I've also never heard so many successive managers give a captain so much praise for how they act off the pitch in terms of bringing players into the club, making them settle well, etc.

 

It's crazy.

[lebron]

I've never seen any captain drag a team out of the fire as many times as him. I've also never heard so many successive managers give a captain so much praise for how they act off the pitch in terms of bringing players into the club, making them settle well, etc.

 

You've probably not seen as many games from other clubs as you have with LFC to be fair. He might have been playing an important part behind the scenes, but as a captain on the field there has at times been a lot left to be desired, especially in the 09/10 season onwards . Could be mental as well as physical (injuries) issues, but he had been a shell of his former self for a while before Rodgers came in. Perhaps Peters should have some of the credit as well?

 

PS! When managers get asked (like they often do), "Just how important is Steven to the new lads coming in - must be inspiring to play with a true Liverpool legend etc.", do you think they would answer "Nah, he's basically to self-absorbed to look after anyone but himself"?

 

Ahh, I'll go to bed, no good will come of this.

 

I absolutely love and adore everything that has to do with Liverpool FC, and my life would be much poorer without that love. Apologies if I've come across a bit cuntish here, I know Gerrard and Carra are the two players that should escape any criticism, I just don't think it's right, and I'm stupid enough to argue accordingly. Hopefully no offense taken from the posters on here that deserve respect... (that would rule you out in my book, Stringy...)

[Pureblood]

It's crazy.

 

No, it's just a different point of view.  Gerrard has been at his inspirational best this season but that wasn't always the case for a while before that.  No player is immune from criticism.  He started this season slowly and came in for criticism early on in this very thread,  And before you start I'm not having a go at him - we would not be top of the league without him, in my opinion.  But he's not bulletproof and lebron is not crazy, he's talking a lot of sense.  

[Guest LFD]

No, it's just a different point of view.  

 

Correction - I think it is crazy.

[Pureblood]

I think he states his case perfectly rationally and explains why, so not crazy. 

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Are you deliberately trying to misunderstand me now? Working under H&G's reign was probably the worst managerial task you could have presented to anyone not being the immediate appointment post Ferguson... I'm not a troll, even if my opionions don't exactly fit the stereotypical Liverpool supporter.

Moving on from Liverpool wasn't a choice for Rafa, I can tell you that much. He'd still be here if it was up to him. Did you not see the guy at the memorial service? Then he went to Inter, do you think that's an easier situation that Liverpool? Moratti is no easier than Hicks or Gillett, I'd wager significantly worse. His time at Chelsea? Greener? Then he goes to Napoli as a gift that the owner gave himself. No, I'm not misunderstanding, I'm just disagreeing!

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Correction - I think it is crazy.

I certainly think his views on Gerrard's captaincy are extremely wide of the mark. That's about as polite as I can be. He hasn't always been playing brilliantly (the start of last season was diabolical at times), but he's a leader and to me a very good one.