Summer 2013 Transfer Thread

[TheHowieLama]

'Business' isn't generic and uniform; it's incredibly nuanced.

 

I think at the level of a half billion dollar sporting business it is far less nuanced than you think. There are not a lot of them around and high level execs move pretty easily between sectors. No one is asking them how to make the donuts.

 

Put it this way - many posters, smart ones too, have suggested that we would be in for 6th place this year. With or without Suarez. Not Willian - Suarez.

So the intrinsic value of Luis to the business is what? A couple of hours of fun on Saturdays aside - it's zero. As an asset he is worth what?

[The Acolyte]

FSG have no balls and the wage bill and Arsenal like behaviour in the transfer market stinks of them making the club attractive to potential buyers.

Refurb on Anfield has gone silent again.

 

They're off and good riddance.

[Sangria]

FSG have no balls and the wage bill and Arsenal like behaviour in the transfer market stinks of them making the club attractive to potential buyers.

Refurb on Anfield has gone silent again.

 

They're off and good riddance.

 

If they could find a buyer they would be off - at a profit of course - but is there a buyer out there.

They can see the realities, that we cannot compete financially with City, Chelsea and Arsenal once the decide to start spending. Man U a money generating machine.

We are a sixth of fifth team in the League and that is not going to change anytime soon.

[xerxes]

'Rules' don't work, and they certainly haven't thus far. There is no formulaic panacea to football - situations need to be judged on their merit and by people who have the ability to do that. If they don't trust the only senior footballing person at our club then they should replace him or give him support with an experienced CEO.

 

A good post which highlights some of the issues at our club.

 

Would you trust a manager with only two years PL, and four years managerial, experience with £30m on one player?

 

If you decide to appoint such a manager is it wise for him to be managed by an MD with only three years PL experience?

 

It is not unsusal for investors to by an asset in which they are not experts.it is unusual for that expertise to not then be bought in to protect that asset.

[Innova]

 

On the parameters that they think the potential benefits don't balance against the figure we're asked to pay.

 

I don't like it' date=' but surely you'd accept that there has to be a cut off, a point at which you say a player's price has gone past his value and what the club can reasonably spend?

 

Beyond the financial dopers, there isn't a manager in the world who has the power to chase targets indefinitely as the price escalates. Now, we can debate whether that line was crossed with Willian yet, but given Spurs were pushing hard for him and already raised the price, with the cash they have to burn i doubt they'd step away even if we matched their bid.

 

If Rodgers knew matching the bid would guarantee us the player, Spurs would back away, and the price was only marginally increased, then i'd accept he has a major reason to feel fucked off.

 

Whichever way, he's probably disappointed with how the summer has thus far shaped up.[/quote']

 

I highly doubt that spurs were going to back off even if we matched their bid of 33m (?). If we continue bidding with them, we'll either make them waste more money on a player, or they back off and we are fucked while paying far higher amounts of money than what the player is worth. Spurs are also far more willing to spend than us now thanks to Madrid with that crazy bid.

 

I really don't mind us not spending that 30+m on willian if we are going to spend it on 2 other players that would at least make the first team or provide competition to our current players. IF we do spend it that is.

 

We can rave on and on about how fsg is making lfc to a business club but which owners are willing to make a loss of a few hundred millions besides the Arab/Russian ones? If anyone's to blame, it's the scouts that have messed up. If clubs like Porto can be selling all their best players every year but being able to replace them with quality players (not necessarily cheap), I really don't see why we can't too. On a more relatable level, we should always have gone in for players like bony, wolfswinkel, strootman and a few more here and there.

[Innova]

And this probably sums up our summer window and the season, I can't see us getting into 4th place this season even if we manage to sign someone of mata's quality now, we are far behind the top 4 teams in terms of squad depth, and then there's the factor of injuries which our players are unfortunately prone to.

[dennis tooth]

Spurs buy him and qualify for the CL for the next three seasons I'd say it would make financial sense, even using Dennismaths.

[Innova]

Spurs buy him and qualify for the CL for the next three seasons I'd say it would make financial sense' date=' even using Dennismaths.[/quote']

 

Spurs were always favorites to get 4th even without Willian, especially after arsenal messed up and we were always out of the picture.

[dennis tooth]

Maybe it would be better if we were all dead.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Has anybody considered the scenario in which Willian turns out to be pretty shite and our next target is brilliant? Will it still be wrong not to go over the threshold?

 

The argument, of course, is that they should support the manager with whatever he wants. But if it does turn out that way, surely it is the right call?

 

What if the price went up to 60m? 100m? Do they take out loans because Willian is the player the manager wants? Is there any limit at which those whose money it is are allowed controll over how it's spent?

 

If they sanctioned and agreed a 30m deal, then Spurs game in, and the price went up and agent wanted stupid money to push him to LFC, should we just take it? Maybe. I don't know. It's a judgement call. With all judgment calls, we will see if it turns out to be right.

 

What definitely won't be acceptable, though, is unwillingness to bring any top player into the attack. If we end the summer without getting the manager any of the quality he desires, that'll be unacceptable. I'm all for sensible spending, as the Carroll and Downing deals held us back quite badly. But being sensible doesn't mean throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Actually, it would be the opposite of sensible.

 

They've got a little under two weeks to get him the player he wants. After that, the pressure starts to build. Rightly so.

[Major Tom]

Has anybody considered the scenario in which Willian turns out to be pretty shite and our next target is brilliant? Will it still be wrong not to go over the threshold?

 

The argument, of course, is that they should support the manager with whatever he wants. But if it does turn out that way, surely it is the right call?

 

Well, yeah, it would be. As it was with Dempsey. But I think on the balance of things, and over a longer timeframe, the manager is going to get more calls right than the owners, regarding players. My thoughts are they would need to back him the whole time or none of it.

 

There is an element of gambling to what they are doing as, they don't set the transfer fee, the highest bidder does.

[Major Tom]

What definitely won't be acceptable, though, is unwillingness to bring any top player into the attack. If we end the summer without getting the manager any of the quality he desires, that'll be unacceptable. I'm all for sensible spending, as the Carroll and Downing deals held us back quite badly. But being sensible doesn't mean throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Actually, it would be the opposite of sensible.

 

They've got a little under two weeks to get him the player he wants. After that, the pressure starts to build. Rightly so.

 

Bang on, all of this.

[Nightcat]

Has anybody considered the scenario in which Willian turns out to be pretty shite

 

You think that both Mourinho and Villas Boas are wrong and that they will waste £30m?

 

I remember how cool our fans were when we signed Cisse for half the amount Chelsea paid for Drogba who were supposedly ripped off...

 

and our next target is brilliant?

 

There won't be a "next target".

[Carvalho Diablo]

What's the latest regarding a new centre back / Sakho ?

[xerxes]

My thoughts are they would need to back him the whole time or none of it.

 

Unrealistic.

 

All expenditure needs to be measured, and tested.

 

Any firm has diferent rules for petty cash and the real stuff.

[spider-neil]

My personal opinion is 30+ is too much money and we are right to walk away. But with that said, when the manager is using words like 'perfect for us' then I think FSG should be pushing out the boat to land the player.

 

Henry was coming out with sound bites early in the transfer window that he wants silverware and for us to challenge for 4th, well the man THEY put in charge has identified a player he thinks is perfect for team and they are withholding funds but still expect us to challenge. You either back the guy or sack him.

 

I can see why Rodgers thinks the player would be perfect because 1) pure creative would help break down sides which I think will be the number one problem facing us this year and 2) it would release Coutinho to play who the middle which will increase his effectiveness.

 

So basically, I'm 'kinda' glad we've passed on an expensive player but I'm a little disappointed the manager's judgement hasn't been backed, his transfer record is way more hit than miss.

[Major Tom]

Unrealistic.

 

All expenditure needs to be measured, and tested.

 

 

Well yeah, but, by who? People that don't know what they're talking about? That's no way to run a business either.

 

I have no idea as to the workings but if John Henry is saying 'no' from Boston, that's not right for me.

[M_B]

My personal opinion is 30+ is too much money and we are right to walk away.

 

I'd have been appalled if we'd spent 30+. It would have seemed like FSG hadn't learned their lesson and were getting desperate.

 

We cannot compete financially with Chelsea, Man Utd or Man City and trying to compete financially with Arsenal and Spurs is going to lead to financial difficulties for someone. We need a different tactic. We need to be smarter than just throwing money into the pot.

[spider-neil]

I get FSG's point of view. They got badly burnt with Carroll, 35m and sold two season later for 15m. But at the end of the day they hired a man with a clear vision of where he wants to take the team, his transfer is pretty good and his transfer record in January was pretty spectacular so if he has identified a man he thinks will make the difference then you should trust him otherwise why not get rid and just have a committee run the run.

[Elite]

Even if Fsg had stumped up the extrs cash for Willian, I doubt it would have made a difference because he'd have gone Chelsea anyway. He comes across as a money grabbing cunt anyway, he would have shit on us at some point.

[spider-neil]

I'd have been appalled if we'd spent 30+. It would have seemed like FSG hadn't learned their lesson and were getting desperate.

 

We cannot compete financially with Chelsea, Man Utd or Man City and trying to compete financially with Arsenal and Spurs is going to lead to financial difficulties for someone. We need a different tactic. We need to be smarter than just throwing money into the pot.

 

The point is that's my opinion but I'm not the manager, if we start drawing games left and right because we don't have the creativity to break those teams down then that money is no good to us in FSG's bank. Also 30m would instantly be paid back with a top 4 finish. I have my opinion but Brendan knows a lot more about what the team needs that I or indeed FSG.

[dennis tooth]

Has anybody considered the scenario in which Willian turns out to be pretty shite and our next target is brilliant? Will it still be wrong not to go over the threshold?

 

The argument, of course, is that they should support the manager with whatever he wants. But if it does turn out that way, surely it is the right call?

 

What if the price went up to 60m? 100m? Do they take out loans because Willian is the player the manager wants? Is there any limit at which those whose money it is are allowed controll over how it's spent?

 

If they sanctioned and agreed a 30m deal, then Spurs game in, and the price went up and agent wanted stupid money to push him to LFC, should we just take it? Maybe. I don't know. It's a judgement call. With all judgment calls, we will see if it turns out to be right.

 

What definitely won't be acceptable, though, is unwillingness to bring any top player into the attack. If we end the summer without getting the manager any of the quality he desires, that'll be unacceptable. I'm all for sensible spending, as the Carroll and Downing deals held us back quite badly. But being sensible doesn't mean throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Actually, it would be the opposite of sensible.

 

They've got a little under two weeks to get him the player he wants. After that, the pressure starts to build. Rightly so.

 

And so do the prices.

I think at this late stage its hard to see us getting any quality in, if anyone at all, given their willingness to walk away or fanny about and how difficult doing deals becomes as we approach the dark at the end of the transfer tunnel. If we wont sell Suarez (Sceptics on here might disagree) as its too late to get a replacement in then how can we expect other clubs to sell us their quality players, without of course, adding silly premiums on top?

Even with all the intention in the world, with our current failed policy, its hard to imagine us bringing anyone in, even with my wild imagination.

We might get a free transfer or a £5m player but if we go an spend, £25m will be the cost of a £15m player from now onwards, especially as we look increasingly desperate, thats if any decent players with decent ambitions will come to us even if we can somehow agree a fee.

[kalasoma]

Is it possible that all three of Benzema, Di Maria (BBC yesterday) and Ozil (Bild) could all be on their way out to make way for Bale? Not saying that we're after any one of those players, but what would they be worth? What would be the point of selling Benzema and Higuain in the same season unless Real were confident of getting strikers (or a striker) to replace them?

[Evil_Ways]

The thing is we have to balance our budget without getting CL football, and doing that obviously makes it a hell of a lot harder to get there. I for one wouldnt want to see us go back to the brink of financial melt down. Which is what can happen if we consistently overpay for players and bank on it getting us CL football and we end up falling short. Now im sure we could afford to overpay for players a couple of times, it's not like we havent done it in the past. But long term it surely has to be better to follow a strategy that is financially sustainable and still have us competing for a top four finish, if that's what we end up doing.

[Whelan]

Managers not being given the money for players isn't a strategy brought in by FSG! All this bollocks about 'Americans know nothing' well Parry blocked bids for Simao, Alves and Barry!

 

£33m for Willian! Great, and then another £10m plus for a defender! That is fine if we had the money, but do not. We have a budget and that is the way it is, and that is the way it has been since 96. Rodgers is no different to any manager who has preceded him, who lets not forget where judged by their ability to win the league not finish in the top four. In fact I think Rodgers has been quite cute here - lets it slip that we need money, allude to the money that Suarez could raise but emphasise that John Henry doesn't want him sold, it is not his decision and make sure you get that £30m for the two, or three players you need.

 

I am not arsed about a marquee signing, i'm glad we have the ambition to go for them, but it is clearly difficult to attract them so I don't want us overspending to attract someone who isn't world class - If we spend £30m I want a ready made world class star. Rodgers says this in his Echo interview - we have struggled to attract top draw players because of the position of the club - but he is adamant he wants two more players in before next week and I am confident we will - it won't be a Lamela, it may be Yarmolenko, but it will probably be Capel or Atsu.

 

If Willian does sign for Chelsea - lets see how easy it is for Spurs to sign players now that every club knows they have £90m in the bank! Roma will be wanting an extra £5m.