Summer 2011

[Macedonian_Red]

You can't just sign a ton of foreigners and expect it all to work.

 

True ... Especially since most of these foreigners are cunts ...

[Iantn]

True ... Especially since most of these foreigners are cunts ...

 

Proving your own point magnificently here.

[Gym Beglin]

I'm not saying you can't buy good British players. I'm saying, for the millionth time, that buying British based players doesn't mean they've got any kind of extra guarantee of working out, or even transferring their form to this club.

.

 

Yes, it does have an extra guarantee.

Think of the most expensive British signings, Rooney, Milner, Bent, Lescott, Barry, Ferdinand, Carrick, Johnson, Defoe, Crouch, Smalling.

All have been excellent signings for their respective sides.

Leaving Carroll, Jones, Young and Henderson aside* until they settle and we can form a reasoned opinion of them, there's only really been Hargreaves, Bentley, Keane and Wright Phillips who have moved for big money who have failed to deliver. And I'll also venture that Wright Phillips would still do a good job, he just doesn't get picked. And obviously Hargreaves was injured.

 

Compare it to the most expensive foreign (from a foreign league, not from another English club) signings in the division... Robinho, Balotelli, Shevchenko, Veron, Drogba, Essien, Torres, Zhirkov, Aquilani, Reyes, Anderson, Bosingwa, (Dzeko*), Silva, Yaya, Modric, Crespo, Kolarov, Jo, Suarez...

Hit and miss, some do and some don't , even for big money and big reputation players.

 

Now there may still be a gap in ability between the best foreigners and the most expensive British players, but all in all I think the more you pay for British signings then the better chance you have of it working out.

We've suffered from bad judgement of players, but we've also suffered in that we're not dined at the top table for a long time.

Yes, Keane cost £20m, but United were paying £30m for Rooney and Ferdinand, and that was aaaages ago. Keane wasn't an elite British footballer by any stretch of the imagination, he was an expensive mediocre player.

 

I don't think Downing is mediocre, he's top class. Same with Young, he's top class, he costs big money not because he's flavour of the month (Bentley eg) but because he's very good and he's British. Yes, there's a British premium, but I think the % success rate of very good British players makes it worth paying this premium, as they seldom disappoint in the same way that their foreign counterparts do. I would venture that you also pay the premium because you tend to get a greater sell on fee for the British players. We still got £14m for Keane or thereabouts, Chelsea sold SWP for about the same amount as well.

You don't tend to get money back on shoddy foreigners, it's a protracted and expensive process to rid yourselves of a foreign player who hasn't impressed.

[kev g]

Apart from you've clearly missed the part where he spoke about a '20m' flop. Listing a few free players an the rest under 10m doesn't count in the point I was addressing. I think Aquilani is the only player over 15m who has been anywhere remotely counting as a flop. In general, when we spend big on foreign players, they've worked out. In general, when we spend big on British based players, they haven't. The evidence I've presented quite clearly backs this up.

 

I'm not saying you can't buy good British players. I'm saying, for the millionth time, that buying British based players doesn't mean they've got any kind of extra guarantee of working out, or even transferring their form to this club.

 

Funny that you list Reira, though. It was only the other day people saying how he was the player who made us challenge.

 

Firstly, I did mention Johnson. Secondly, Bellamy and Pennant were bother terribly average for us.

 

Which british based players that we have spent big on have been failures apart from robbie keane? Glenn johnson and andy carroll are the only others that cost more than 15m, to the best of my recollection, and neither of those are failures. At least not yet. I would say the jury is still out on both to some extent. By the way I don't think I mentioned any free transfers but I think you did when u mentioned zenden in a previous message if I'm not mistaken. I didn't say there was any guarantee of a british based player working out I said that I think there is a greater chance of a foreign player not settling, implicit in that is that its possible for a british based player not to settle at the club. Well I wasn't one of those saying that about riera. He did give the team more balance for a season due to providing some width and a natural left foot but he was far from the key that season gerrard, torres, mascherano, reina, kuyt, carra and alonso were all far more important to the team that season and, in my opinion riera was ultimately a failure despite his one ok season.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

You can't just sign a ton of foreigners and expect it all to work.

 

You can't sign a ton of anybody and expect it to work. Unless it's Molby.

 

You need goo players, not British players, not foreign players. The right players, the right position, the right quality, the right price. Once you start putting nationality ahead of those things, you're in a world of hurt.

[Gym Beglin]

True ... Especially since most of these foreigners are cunts ...

 

How's that fat knacker Pandev doing?

Fucking shocking.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

How's that fat knacker Pandev doing?

Fucking shocking.

 

Yeah, he's not 'top class' like Downing and Young. It's a wonder Villa didn't win the league with a pair of such top class players.

[Joe Le Taxi]

Yeah, he's not 'top class' like Downing and Young. It's a wonder Villa didn't win the league with a pair of such top class players.

 

They were around the relegation places for most of the season despite having these 2 supposedly ace wingers.

[WaltonRed]

Numero for manager!

[ngogswilly]

All this arguing about signing British players is pointless though.

 

We'll know come the end of the season if its been the right strategy or not. And by right strategy, I mean their signings will have improved our league position from last seasons finish and please god have at least got us back in the top 4.

 

I'm quietly confident we'll improve upon last year.

[Gym Beglin]

They were around the relegation places for most of the season despite having these 2 supposedly ace wingers.

 

So were we, with Reina, Carragher and Gerrard.

 

 

Yeah, he's not 'top class' like Downing and Young. It's a wonder Villa didn't win the league with a pair of such top class players.

 

Ha ha ha, I get it.

Ladies and gentlemen, Oscar Wilde.

[WaltonRed]

Youngs just gone to the Champions and last years European cup runners up.

 

Must be shite him.

[stevienando]

Ladies and gentlemen, Oscar Wilde.

 

The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple.

[kev g]

I wonder why numero hasn't replied to my last message. Perhaps he didn't see it or maybe he didn't have an answer to what I said. Does he have any form for going quiet when he isn't winning one of his many arguments?

[piscinin]

Youngs just gone to the Champions and last years European cup runners up.

 

Must be shite him.

 

[WaltonRed]

Knew you'd say that or post someone elses picture but Young will be class for them next year i've no doubts.

[Macedonian_Red]

How's that fat knacker Pandev doing?

Fucking shocking.

 

Well, he is earning €60,000 per week, and living in sunny Italy ... I'd say he is doing better than you ...

[Macedonian_Red]

Youngs just gone to the Champions and last years European cup runners up.

 

Must be shite him.

 

[WaltonRed]

 

Jan Kromkamp never got a picture holding that did he?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Youngs just gone to the Champions and last years European cup runners up.

 

Must be shite him.

 

If only there was some grey area between 'top class' and 'shite'.

[dirk grout]

I wonder why numero hasn't replied to my last message. Perhaps he didn't see it or maybe he didn't have an answer to what I said. Does he have any form for going quiet when he isn't winning one of his many arguments?

 

I think you can safely rule out the 'not having an answer' option.

[Red Phoenix]

Does he have any form for going quiet when he isn't winning one of his many arguments?

 

I don't think so! He's posted more than anyone else in the thread so it's probably safe to say no.

[kev g]

I think you can safely rule out the 'not having an answer' option.

 

Ha ha ha! Yeah he does seem to have an answer for everything. I suppose that's not too difficult when u aren't really bothered whether you're talking sense or not!:whistle:

[Hugo Sanjeev]

I don't think Downing would actually be a bad signing, even though he doesn't really excite me. I think he could turn out to be effective with the right players, in the right system, the way a Stuart Ripley and Jason Wilcox were for Blackburn.

 

However, rather than spending £18 mill on Downing, I would much rather spend around £25 mill for both N'Zogbia and Xherdan Shaqiri.

[Unrighteous]

I never understood the N'Zogbia love in...