Robbie Keane

[TommyW]

Busoms, are you Irish by any chance?

 

Keane was useless, we shouldnt have signed him and we were lucky 'only' to lose what we did on the deal

[Guest TK-421]

Was valid concerns like: 'he's shit'?

 

Regardless, I'll bet a fair few still blame the player instead of questioning the manager's judgment in the first place.

 

Gav was the most vocal critic when he signed and categorically told us he wouldn't cut it, and was correct.

 

Catch22 said that he was too old and, if he was any good, a big club would've taken him earlier. He was correct too.

 

I was lukewarm, and it never crossed my mind we would sign him. Apart from a couple of games, e.g PSV away, he never convinced me and I think we did the right thing cutting our losses.

 

And I hate his old man's face.

[Busoms]

Got no problem admitting I thought he would be a good option for us for about ten million.

 

Unfortunately he flopped for twenty.

 

That means absolutely nothing. He was either the right player or he wasnt, and I'll bet any money the concensus among the fanbase was that he was, despite concerns about the price, which was fair enough given his reputation.

 

Even now he'd be an excellent option in the squad, but as I keep saying once Benitez wanted rid, mostly due to politics, the player was demonized and the manager came out of it as the hero again.

 

Some of the excuses like he needed Barry to make it work, taking into account the season we had with Riera on the left, is just cringeworthy beyond belief and total and utter rubbish.

[zigackly]

I think the excuses are bullshit too. He's a player whose level is at mid-table or top ten clubs, not a top four club. Sometimes you don't see this until you give them a try.

[Whelan]

Even now he'd be an excellent option in the squad, but as I keep saying once Benitez wanted rid, mostly due to politics, the player was demonized and the manager came out of it as the hero again.

 

No he'd be an option.

 

He would also be a better option than N'Gog or Kuyt even, but he was and will never be an 'excellent' option. He isn't even an option for Tottenham.

[Busoms]

Busoms, are you Irish by any chance?

 

Keane was useless, we shouldnt have signed him and we were lucky 'only' to lose what we did on the deal

 

No I'm not, thankfully. Although what that's got to do with anything I don't know. Maybe another deflection tactic for the manager's failure?

 

He obviously wasn't useless, saying otherwise just makes you sound daft, that's even ignoring the fact that it was his first season at the club. But as I've said before, certain players are above the criteria for success set be others. Lets face it, Kuyt is half the player and yet he's pretty much untouchable.

[Whelan]

BBC

 

BBC News - Vegetative state patients can respond to questions

 

"Scientists have been able to reach into the mind of a brain-damaged man and communicate with his thoughts.

 

The research, carried out in the UK and Belgium, involved a new brain scanning method.

 

Awareness was detected in three other patients previously diagnosed as being in a vegetative state.

 

The study in the New England Journal of Medicine shows that scans can detect signs of awareness in patients thought to be closed off from the world.

 

Patients in a vegetative state are awake, not in a coma, but have no awareness because of severe brain damage.

 

Scanning technique

 

The scientists used functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) which shows brain activity in real time.

 

They asked patients and healthy volunteers to imagine playing tennis while they were being scanned.

 

In each of the volunteers this stimulated activity in the pre-motor cortex, part of the brain which deals with movement.

 

This also happened in four out of 23 of the patients presumed to be in a vegetative state.

 

 

The BBC's Fergus Walsh tests the new brain scanning technique

I volunteered to test out the scanning technique.

 

I gave the scientists two women's names, one of which was my mother's.

 

I imagined playing tennis when they said the right name, and within a minute they had worked out her name.

 

They were also able to guess correctly whether I had children.

 

Questions

 

This is a continuation of research published three years ago, when the team used the same technique to establish initial contact with a patient diagnosed as vegetative.

 

But this time they went further.

 

With one patient - a Belgian man injured in a traffic accident seven years ago - they asked a series of questions.

 

He was able to communicate "yes" and "no" using just his thoughts.

 

The team told him to use "motor" imagery like a tennis match to indicate "yes" and "spatial" imagery like thinking about roaming the streets for a "no".

 

The patient responded accurately to five out of six autobiographical questions posed by the scientists.

 

For example, he confirmed that his father's name was Alexander.

 

The study involved scientists from the Medical Research Council (MRC), the Wolfson Brain Imaging Centre in Cambridge and a Belgian team at the University of Liege.

 

Dr Adrian Owen from the MRC in Cambridge co-authored the report:

 

"We were astonished when we saw the results of the patient's scan and that he was able to correctly answer the questions that were asked by simply changing his thoughts."

 

Dr Owen says this opens the way to involving such patients in their future treatment decisions: "You could ask if patients were in pain and if so prescribe painkillers and you could go on to ask them about their emotional state."

 

It does raise many ethical issues - for example - it is lawful to allow patients in a permanent vegetative state to die by withdrawing all treatment, but if a patient showed they could respond it would not be, even if they made it clear that was what they wanted.

 

The Royal Hospital for Neurodisability in London is a leading assessment and treatment centre for adults with brain injuries.

 

Helen Gill, a consultant in low awareness state, welcomed the new research but cautioned that it was still early days for the research: "It's very useful if you have a scan which can show some activity but you need a detailed sensory assessment as well.

 

"A lot of patients are slipping through the net and this adds another layer to ensure patients are assessed correctly."

 

She said the hospital did a study of 60 patients admitted with a diagnosis of vegetative state and 43% could communicate, saying Robbie Keane was an excellent option"

[piscinin]

No I'm not, thankfully. Although what that's got to do with anything I don't know. Maybe another deflection tactic for the manager's failure?

 

He obviously wasn't useless, saying otherwise just makes you sound daft, that's even ignoring the fact that it was his first season at the club. But as I've said before, certain players are above the criteria for success set be others. Lets face it, Kuyt is half the player and yet he's pretty much untouchable.

 

But Kuyt is half a player who can understand and follow instructions. If you are going to play for a manager like Benitez you'd better be able to do that.

[Busoms]

But Kuyt is half a player who can understand and follow instructions. If you are going to play for a manager like Benitez you'd better be able to do that.

 

Which is a huge failing in his methods. I thought that was obvious due to his inability to get to grips with the English game? I wouldn't say Kuyt follows instructions anyway as from what I can gather he pretty much as the freedom to go where he likes, which usually ends up with us squandering cheap posession.

 

Football, and success, in this country is still ultimately about good players going out and using their own abilty and game intelligence to perform, but Benitez trys to control every aspect of their game, hence the revolving door of squad players who can't adapt. That rigid approach has its place but only breeds inconsistancy when applied to a long league season against the vast majority of weaker sides. It also makes you wonder what they do in training all week long if he's having to stand on the touchline all game and push players around like chess pieces.

 

The much lamented back end of last season, for example, was more about us going out with a positve attitude and imposing ourselves on the opposition than any real tactical masterplan. And that approach is far more effective than constantly looking to nulify the opposition, and our own players.

[Wor Horse]

Kuyt's a better player than Keane.

[piscinin]

Which is a huge failing in his methods. I thought that was obvious due to his inability to get to grips with the English game? I wouldn't say Kuyt follows instructions anyway as from what I can gather he pretty much as the freedom to go where he likes, which usually ends up with us squandering cheap posession.

 

 

Maybe if I'd said improvise within the context of the gameplan sensibly you'd get where I'm coming from. He was told to stay high, he hung out in midfield. That's not going to wash with managers like Benitez, Capello, etc.

[Busoms]

Sounds like the goalposts are being move again depending on who the player is. Keane was sold because Benitez felt undermined over Barry, it had nothing to do with him being unable to adapt to the manager's much over hyped tactics. Regardless, that still reflects badly on his, or his scouts abilty to spot the right player for whatever he's trying to do.

 

Me made a mistake, accept it instead of coming up with elaborate excuses to justify it. He's only human.

[El Rojo]

Just as an aside, Bellamy's game probably suffered with us a bit too as a result of Rafa's rigid tactical instruction to his players. Not every player is suited to it, though thankfully our two best players seem to be.

 

Looking back, it was also insane letting Bellamy go for £7/8m and bringing Keane in for £20m a year later. Really shows the lack of any strategic planning or masterplan at the club.

 

No guarantee that Bellamy would have risen to the levels he's since shown for City playing for us, but I loved the nasty little neckless, crap tatooed dwarf.

 

He deserved a second season, and Keane deserved a complete season.

[Whelan]

Keane is a good player and was a good signing at the time. He played a key role in our good start to the season but was a victim of the internal politics going on at the time.

 

 

Make your mind up!

 

Sounds like the goalposts are being move again depending on who the player is. Keane was sold because Benitez felt undermined over Barry, it had nothing to do with him being unable to adapt to the manager's much over hyped tactics. Regardless, that still reflects badly on his, or his scouts abilty to spot the right player for whatever he's trying to do.

 

Me made a mistake, accept it instead of coming up with elaborate excuses to justify it. He's only human.

[piscinin]

Sounds like the goalposts are being move again depending on who the player is. Keane was sold because Benitez felt undermined over Barry, it had nothing to do with him being unable to adapt to the manager's much over hyped tactics.

Regardless, that still reflects badly on his, or his scouts abilty to spot the right player for whatever he's trying to do.

 

Me made a mistake, accept it instead of coming up with elaborate excuses to justify it. He's only human.

 

Ok, I see where this is going. Adios.

[Busoms]

Just as an aside, Bellamy's game probably suffered with us a bit too as a result of Rafa's rigid tactical instruction to his players. Not every player is suited to it, though thankfully our two best players seem to be.

 

Looking back, it was also insane letting Bellamy go for £7/8m and bringing Keane in for £20m a year later. Really shows the lack of any strategic planning or masterplan at the club.

 

No guarantee that Bellamy would have risen to the levels he's since shown for City playing for us, but I loved the nasty little neckless, crap tatooed dwarf.

 

He deserved a second season, and Keane deserved a complete season.

 

Absolutely. The concensus is that Bellamy was sold to fund Torres, which, ignoring the Voronin and Babel signings in the same window, is nonsense. He just couldn't handle him or decide where he fitted in. Bellamy was eventually messed around, frozen out completely and then replaced with an inferior player. It's an obsessive strategy which inolves a high turnover of players and plain old poor squad management.

[Trumo]

Veni, Vidi, Ego Beelicus, Ego Perite.

[Busoms]

Make your mind up!

 

You'll have to do better than that, genius. Try responding to the points made instead of conciously looking to catch people out in some weird obsession to defend the manager from perfectly valid criticisms. It just makes you look like a twat.

[Code]

It would be interesting to bump the Keane thread from around the time the speculation broke and see the reaction. You'll probably find a similar story on every forum, that he was the perfect player for us. But as soon as his face doesn't fit history is rewritten to defend the manager from valid criticisms.

 

It's getting like a cult who try and supress perfectly natural objective thought and common sense.

 

Loads of people thought he would be the prefect signing, but there was enough of people who pointed out he was a bit shite as well and that he needed too many chances to get his goals and that he probably would not get enough chances playing for us and probably miss most of the few he would get.

[Busoms]

Loads of people thought he would be the prefect signing, but there was enough of people who pointed out he was a bit shite as well and that he needed too many chances to get his goals and that he probably would not get enough chances playing for us and probably miss most of the few he would get.

 

Good work Nostradamus. Aren't you the one who thought Morientes was a huge success here? And even he had a full season.

[El Rojo]

Absolutely. The concensus is that Bellamy was sold to fund Torres, which, ignoring the Voronin and Babel signings in the same window, is nonsense. He just couldn't handle him or decide where he fitted in. Bellamy was eventually messed around, frozen out completely and then replaced with an inferior player. It's an obsessive strategy which inolves a high turnover of players and plain old poor squad management.

 

I wasn't really taking a cut off Benitez in particular there, I think it's a problem that runs through all levels of the club. No cohesive plan ever seems to be in place. I'm sure he's never even told how much money he has at his disposal (though the answer to that is 'nothing' for the forseeable future.)

[Busoms]

It's a fair point about money and planning but we'd see a similar strategy with an open cheque book. I think it was Ballague in one of his PR pieces recently who mentioned his scatty approach to signing players due to an ever changing philosopy. Althought he was trying to use it to educate us mere mortals of the manager's genius.

[Whelan]

You'll have to do better than that, genius. Try responding to the points made instead of conciously looking to catch people out in some weird obsession to defend the manager from perfectly valid criticisms. It just makes you look like a twat.

 

Until your next incarnation bye.

[Busoms]

Until your next incarnation bye.

 

Whatever makes you feel better about yourself, love.

[Delmar]

Good work Nostradamus. Aren't you the one who thought Morientes was a huge success here? And even he had a full season.

 

Code is right about Keane, though. Keane got chances, he screwed up, and the rest is history. Blame the manager for signing him (or agreeing to it) as the player was too old and not mentally tough enough, the rest that you've posted is pure conspiracy theory. Rafa is stubborn and knows his politics, but more than that, he wants to win. If he thinks he can win with Torres in goal he will play Torres is goal...