Russia v Ukraine

[dockers_strike]

3 minutes ago, Strontium said:

As the old saying goes, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. And there certainly appears to be no shortage of people who failed to learn the lessons from appeasement in the 1930s.

As Ive said before, there's really only 2 options. You draw a line and say no further or you get prepared to go toe to toe from the off and play a game of brinkmanship, hoping the other side backs down.

 

Both options carry risks.I dont think doing nothing is an option since Putin would seem only too willing to roll his infantry across Ukraine and into former Soviet republics.

[M_B]

11 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

We shouldn't be sanctioning them at all. Just walk away. If America wants to play world police, let them do it on their own. They can cop for the shortages when Russia cut off the gas and oil. 

We get far more out of being America's ally than being Russia's bitch.

[Boss]

7 minutes ago, M_B said:

We get far more out of being America's ally than being Russia's bitch.

Biden has fucked us off over a trade deal between both countries. Obama said that Brexit would put Britain "at the back of the queue". Something Biden himself obviously agrees with. 

 

What do we get exactly from being America's ally?

[M_B]

3 minutes ago, Boss said:

Biden has fucked us off over a trade deal between both countries. Obama said that Brexit would put Britain "at the back of the queue". Something Biden himself obviously agrees with. 

 

What do we get exactly from being America's ally?

Right oh.

[Boss]

17 minutes ago, M_B said:

Right oh.

Looks like the only advantage we get is getting involved in proxy wars, that cost us billions, that we ultimately lose. Then we're forced to leave, cravenly, with our tail between our legs. Or, the flip side is, we depose a tyrant and then create a power vacuum. A new enemy emerges from the vacuum far more evil than the initial tyrant we deposed, and thus multiplies our initial problems exponentially. 

[Boss]

26 minutes ago, Strontium said:

As the old saying goes, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. And there certainly appears to be no shortage of people who failed to learn the lessons from appeasement in the 1930s.

If only every single conflict was exactly the same as World War 2.

[Jose Jones]

9 minutes ago, Boss said:

If only every single conflict was exactly the same as World War 2.

Bit anti-Semitic.

[Boss]

11 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

Bit anti-Semitic.

Haha, you bastard. I'm going to have to clarify this now before rico goes off on another crusade. I meant that just because it was right to stand up to Hitler, doesn't mean it's right in every instance. If Putin was Hitler, he probably would've tried to sweep mainland Europe at some point in the last 23 years.

[Bjornebye]

Just now, Boss said:

Haha, you bastard. I'm going to have to clarify this now before rico goes off on another crusade. I meant that just because it was right to stand up to Hitler, doesn't mean it's right in every instance. If Putin was Hitler, he probably would've tried to sweep mainland Europe at some point in the last 23 years.

Rico??!!!!! 

[SasaS]

31 minutes ago, Boss said:

Haha, you bastard. I'm going to have to clarify this now before rico goes off on another crusade. I meant that just because it was right to stand up to Hitler, doesn't mean it's right in every instance. If Putin was Hitler, he probably would've tried to sweep mainland Europe at some point in the last 23 years.

Bit Islamophobic.

[Red Phoenix]

Blinken is a fucking clown. Maybe Ukraine is a "practical matter" to Russia.

 

 

[Rico1304]

Phew

 

https://twitter.com/paulsonne/status/1496679080586063874?s=21

[Bjornebye]

Heavy words tonight. Good luck all xxxxx 

[Bjornebye]

5 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Phew

 

https://twitter.com/paulsonne/status/1496679080586063874?s=21

Stay the fuck where you are !!! X

[Rico1304]

17 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Stay the fuck where you are !!! X

I’m willing to make that sacrifice for

world peace. 

[Red Phoenix]

It's fucking sick seeing this start up. Can't believe there was no way of resolving this peacefully.

[Lee909]

Can't say i'd trust either side of this one

 

Feel sorry for those stuck in the middle but Ukrainian politics is full of far right bastards. Over the past decade the number of attacks on Jews,Gays,Roma has gone through the roof with a number of independents condeming it. Up until two years back Andriy Biletsky was a memeber of parliment. 

 

Post-Maidan Ukraine is the world’s only nation to have a neo-Nazi formation in its armed forces. The Azov Battalion was initially formed out of the neo-Nazi gang Patriot of Ukraine. Andriy Biletsky, the gang’s leader who became Azov’s commander, once wrote that Ukraine’s mission is to “lead the White Races of the world in a final crusade…against the Semite-led Untermenschen.” Biletsky is now a deputy in Ukraine’s parliament.

 

 

 

This isn't a defense of what Putin is doing as he is undoubtedly a bastard to many of the same groups aswell. 

 

Be interesting where these shells have landed, in populated areas or the outskirts of populated areas. 

 

 

 

 

Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine | The Nation

[Guest Alex_K]

Beginning of the end for Russia in this form. CSTO is a mess. Belarusians want Lukashenko out. Kazakhs want Tokayev out and have protested in unprecedented numbers. Armenia disenfranchised by lack of Russian support w/ Azerbaijan. This is a roll of the dice from an old & desperate leader who history will look back upon as a pure evil for the condition of the soviet territories. There will be mass civil  domestic discontent in Russia not seen since the 90s as the rest of the world lines up to economically crush it.

[Lee909]

7 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

Beginning of the end for Russia in this form. CSTO is a mess. Belarusians want Lukashenko out. Kazakhs want Tokayev out and have protested in unprecedented numbers. Armenia disenfranchised by lack of Russian support w/ Azerbaijan. This is a roll of the dice from an old & desperate leader who history will look back upon as a pure evil for the condition of the soviet territories. There will be mass civil  domestic discontent in Russia not seen since the 90s as the rest of the world lines up to economically crush it.

 

 

Im sure the Tories and their mates won't be lining up deals to funnel the money into London banks

[Guest Alex_K]

15 minutes ago, Lee909 said:

 

 

Im sure the Tories and their mates won't be lining up deals to funnel the money into London banks

Practically every country in the world is lined up in condemnation of Russia. From Gabon to Ireland to Mexico to Albania to Australia to Japan. On and on and on. Don't fall for parochial mistrust of domestic politicians in UK as driving this. Practically the entire world is arrayed against Russia on this irrespective of political regimes & idealistic bent, as it should be.

[Lee909]

1 minute ago, Alex_K said:

Practically every country in the world is lined up in condemnation of Russia. From Gabon to Ireland to Mexico to Albania to Australia to Japan. On and on and on. Don't fall for parochial mistrust of domestic politicians in UK as driving this. Practically the entire world is arrayed against Russia on this irrespective of political regimes & idealistic bent, as it should be.

 

It's not the condemnation I'm talking about. It's the two faced side of it, while condemning Putin they'll be more than happy to let Russian money flow through UK banks, even knowing sone of it will be tied to Putins people. And if regime collapses, they'll be first to do deals with the new oligarchs while they rape the economy like the Post Soviet lot did 

[Ne Moe Imya]

I can't believe all the people on here who trusted Putin's word that he was just getting ready for military exercises have been let down!

 

As for the whole "Ukraine is a bunch of Nazis" thing, that's pure Russian propaganda. There are a few neo-Nazis in Ukraine, sure. But then again, there are FAR more neo-Nazis in Russia than in Ukraine. It's not even close. Putin has numerous times paid tribute to or even traveled with a famous neo-Nazi motorcycle gang there.

 

Ukraine's democratically-elected president is Jewish, by the way. As is their Prime Minister. Not that that means there aren't any Nazis there, but it tells you a little about how common it is. 

[Rico1304]

4 hours ago, Boss said:

Haha, you bastard. I'm going to have to clarify this now before rico goes off on another crusade. I meant that just because it was right to stand up to Hitler, doesn't mean it's right in every instance. If Putin was Hitler, he probably would've tried to sweep mainland Europe at some point in the last 23 years.

So you no longer think the Jews who had to remain in Germany were partly responsible for their own fate? Good. 

[Red Phoenix]

23 minutes ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

I can't believe all the people on here who trusted Putin's word that he was just getting ready for military exercises have been let down!

 

Was there anyone that actually trusted Putin? For my own part I went back and checked my own posts in most of the thread and didn't find anything like that (I might've missed something though, accepted.) I'm getting this out of the way now because I can't be doing with pages of arguments about what I have or haven't said previously.

 

I posted Lavrov saying that when Russians went back to their bases the west would declare victory and the entire thing was being used to score political points (never said I believed it though). I also posted Zelensky himself saying that he saw no more of a threat from the Russian forces than he saw last year. So even the Ukrainian president was unsure.

 

I said "Imagine thinking that Joe Biden should be listened to on the Ukraine. He can fuck off, as can Blinken. Pair of idiots." I should've said believed instead of listened to because I have zero trust in the pair of them but there you go. And to remind, we've also had intel sources saying this was due to start at 3am last wednesday, and we've had the US repeatedly wrong on previous occasions before this.

 

Eventually the US was right though and now we have war. Fucking sucks and I hope it's not something that lasts long and that Russia get the fuck back out of there when they're done instead of trying to take over the country. If the aim is to get rid of a US backed gov though and they don't want it happening again that surely isn't good for the chances of Ukraine having any type of real democracy.

[Jose Jones]

20 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Was there anyone that actually trusted Putin? For my own part I went back and checked my own posts in most of the thread and didn't find anything like that (I might've missed something though, accepted.) I'm getting this out of the way now because I can't be doing with pages of arguments about what I have or haven't said previously.

 

I posted Lavrov saying that when Russians went back to their bases the west would declare victory and the entire thing was being used to score political points (never said I believed it though). I also posted Zelensky himself saying that he saw no more of a threat from the Russian forces than he saw last year. So even the Ukrainian president was unsure.

 

I said "Imagine thinking that Joe Biden should be listened to on the Ukraine. He can fuck off, as can Blinken. Pair of idiots." I should've said believed instead of listened to because I have zero trust in the pair of them but there you go. And to remind, we've also had intel sources saying this was due to start at 3am last wednesday, and we've had the US repeatedly wrong on previous occasions before this.

 

Eventually the US was right though and now we have war. Fucking sucks and I hope it's not something that lasts long and that Russia get the fuck back out of there when they're done instead of trying to take over the country. If the aim is to get rid of a US backed gov though and they don't want it happening again that surely isn't good for the chances of Ukraine having any type of real democracy.

Well, you did sort of take Putin's word for the whole thing that it was all NATOs fault.

Then NATO basically didn't do anything different, and Russia invaded anyway.