Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Rico1304]

The plot to oust Corbyn stuff would sound a bit far fetched if we were dealing with any other group than the Israel lobby.

But, they're not a rational bunch. Let's not forget that we're dealing with a group of people here who tried to blacken the name of Channel 4's Jon Snow, labelling him an "antisemite" because he had the balls to narrate a video which highlighted the bombing and slaughter of children, as well as standing up to the Israeli Goebbels, the propagandist Mark Regev. For that, he was systematically attacked by interest groups like UK Media Watch and Honest Reporting.

The examples are too many to think that they wouldn't try to ruin Corbyn too.

How’s life in that pocket? If you are a member of the Labour Party and someone showed them this post do you think you’d be booted out?

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

How’s life in that pocket? If you are a member of the Labour Party and someone showed them this post do you think you’d be booted out?

I am a member of the Labour Party.

 

I doubt I'd be kicked out. But, given the current climate of backing down to faux outraged quims, who knows?

 

I'm not sure what the pocket comment means. How's life in National Action/Combat 18?

[Rico1304]

I am a member of the Labour Party.

I doubt I'd be kicked out. But, given the current climate of backing down to faux outraged quims, who knows?

I'm not sure what the pocket comment means. How's life in National Action/Combat 18?

Glad you’ve all recovered.

 

You’re suggesting that Jews who are pissed off (amongst other things) of being accused of being part of a cabal that runs the world, of running a cabal that runs the world.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Glad you’ve all recovered.

 

You’re suggesting that Jews who are pissed off (amongst other things) of being accused of being part of a cabal that runs the world, of running a cabal that runs the world.

No I'm not. Hilarious.

 

Stop chatting shite. I'm recounting an instance where Jon Snow was labelled an antisemite for doing something that was in no way antisemitic. The parallels with Corbyn are striking and relevant.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

How’s life in that pocket? If you are a member of the Labour Party and someone showed them this post do you think you’d be booted out?

Bear in mind that criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitic, what's so hateful about that post?

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Bear in mind that criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitic, what's so hateful about that post?

It's quite astounding that he appears to be disputing that these lobbying groups exist. Amazon sell a few books about the "Israel lobby."

 

Are they selling antisemitic literature? Do Honest Reporting and UK Media Watch not exist and try to make life difficult for anybody who is critical of Israel?

[ZonkoVille77]

The rules are simple.

Don't question Israel, they can do no wrong. You question them, then you're an anti-semitic criminal.

 

Same rules applies to their big brother, the U.S.... Can't question them either.

[Rico1304]

Bear in mind that criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitic, what's so hateful about that post?

I’ve no interest in Israel at all. Not an issue I worry about. But who are ‘the Israel lobby’?

[Rico1304]

Can I just check is it this thread I’m being accused of being a Nazi and an Israel apologist. At the same time.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I’ve no interest in Israel at all. Not an issue I worry about. But who are ‘the Israel lobby’?

People who actively promote the interests of Israel. Not necessarily Jewish and by no means do they represent all Jews.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I’ve no interest in Israel at all. Not an issue I worry about. But who are ‘the Israel lobby’?

They aren't a singular group. But, rather individual groups who lobby foreign governments etc to act in a manner that is favourable to Israel.

 

See:

 

https://youtu.be/0E70BwA7xgU

[cloggypop]

One example would be the Middle East Forum, a US based pro-Israel think tank, who have helped fund Geert Wilders

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-dutch-wilders-us/exclusive-u-s-groups-helped-fund-dutch-anti-islam-politician-wilders-idUSBRE8890A720120910

[cloggypop]

More on Wilders and the US Israeli lobby

 

http://www.dutchnews.nl/features/2010/06/wilders_and_the_us_israel_lobb-2/

[Strontium]

How’s life in that pocket? If you are a member of the Labour Party and someone showed them this post do you think you’d be booted out?

He'd probably be elected leader.

[Strontium]

The rules are simple.

Don't question Israel, they can do no wrong. You question them, then you're an anti-semitic criminal.

 

Same rules applies to their big brother, the U.S.... Can't question them either.

Pretty sure I've seen you question both on multiple occasions. In fact, I don't recall you questioning anyone else.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

He'd probably be elected leader.

A much better outcome than embarrassing myself in a local election.

[Strontium]

I'm gratuitiously offensive, dredge up things I don't understand, congenitally incapable of discussing anything in a civil manner, and I want five negs

 

Happy to oblige.

[ZonkoVille77]

Pretty sure I've seen you question both on multiple occasions. In fact, I don't recall you questioning anyone else.

I didn't make the rules up.

If you mean I'm only anti Israel and anti U.S. well I'm not.

 

I'm also anti China for their human rights abuses. Not a big fan of the right wing Australian governments either and their treatment of refugees. But in both cases I don't see them try to obliterate entire races of people, or at least try to. So they get a bit less judgement.

[Boss]

I don't think there is any anti semitism in the Labour Party. I've never seen or heard anything anti semitic. I've seen people getting sacked for criticising war crimes committed by Israeli armed forces though and Ken Livingstone getting suspended for stating irrefutable facts.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

John Mann is a cunt.

[Creator Supreme]

John Mann is a cunt.

Is the right answer!

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Some of the cry-bullies are up arms again because journalists asked them questions.

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1385891894846152&id=989095877859091

[Anubis]

https://forward.com/opinion/397667/leave-jeremy-corbyn-alone-hes-the-leader-young-british-jews-have-waited/

 

I first voted in a UK General Election in 2005, the year after I left school. I remember various adults telling me grand things about democracy and its history in this great liberal nation. I remember walking into my local voting station, feeling very grown up, putting my X on the ballot paper and checking several times that I’d done it right before putting it into one of the boxes. What I don’t remember is who I voted for.

 

Since then, I have become increasingly politically active. I’ve been on and even organised more demonstrations than I can count. I’m in a union. I’ve disrupted racist events. I’ve volunteered and organised fundraisers. I am deeply involved in left wing political groups.

 

But when it comes to exercising my democratic rights at the ballot box — feh. As a socialist, my instinct has always been to vote Labour. But under New Labour, I witnessed a financial crisis caused by the rich and that left the poorest to battle with years of austerity. I saw the government go to war with Iraq despite the millions who protested against it. And when I became seriously ill, I experienced first hand a healthcare system being privatised in all but name.

 

I don’t have much faith in our political system. And I am not alone. During every election in my memory, a running line of commentary has been that “young people don’t vote.” Whether out of apathy, or, like me, deciding to put their energy elsewhere, young voter turnout has been a recurrent issue here in the UK.

 

Until last June.

 

The General Election last year saw a surge in youth turnout the likes of which hadn’t been seen in a quarter of a century. The reason was an ageing, bearded activist who wears brown suits and grows his own vegetables.

 

Jeremy Corbyn has defied all predictions. And like Bernie Sanders in the U.S., he is particularly popular among Britain’s disenchanted youth.

 

Corbyn is the first political leader in our living memory who we’ve heard say anything real, with policies that go beyond buzzwords, that might actually change the future we are facing. Corbyn and Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell are the only MPs who have actually listened to my concerns, and responded to them. Last year, many of my friends who had never before shown any interest in electoral politics not only turned out and voted, but actually campaigned on the streets for the Labour party.

 

It may surprise you to learn that of those of us who voted Labour last year, many were Jewish. Many of us have met Corbyn through our own activism, and some of us, along with others in the Jewish community, have criticised him for some of his past associations.

 

But none of us have witnessed him saying or doing anything anti-Semitic.

 

And yet, I and the rest of Corbyn’s Jewish supporters have watched aghast as the first politician in our lifetimes who has actually promised us meaningful change has come under increasing attack from the supposed representatives of our community.

 

Of course, anti-Semitism on the Left is a problem. As a Jew who is very much on the Left, it is something I have experienced and battled against for years. In purely ideological terms, it is easy to say Anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are not the same thing, but in practice they are not always so easy to separate. As this whole two-year Labour-party-anti-Semitism-meshugas has proven, inappropriate Holocaust analogies are still far too popular among some Labour supporters, and too often glossed over, particularly when Israel is their focus.

 

What upset me the most about former Labour MP Ken Livingstone’s now famous inability to stop talking about Hitler was not his comments themselves, but the number of people who indignantly defended him. There is a fine line between opposing the state of Israel, opposing Zionism, and starting to refer to both Israel and Zionism in terms reminiscent of old antisemitic tropes, portraying Israeli leaders with horns, or using the word ‘Zio,’ a racist term borrowed from neo-Nazis.

 

Even when this line is not crossed, there is often a general lack of understanding in the Palestine movement that Jewish support for Israel is not simply settler colonialism, that most Jews have far deeper connections to the country, and opposing its actions is not always easy.

 

At the same time, dealing with these issues must not, in my belief, detract from the important work of fighting for the freedom of Palestinians still living under horrendous conditions. In the UK too, while anti-Semitism may still be a serious problem, it is one we must keep in context as people of other minority ethnic groups still face violence and persecution on a scale that Jews have not known in this country for decades.

 

Corbyn’s critics, including much of the Jewish leadership in the UK are also guilty of misusing the Holocaust and our awful history for their own ends. Over the past two years, Corbyn and the Labour party have frequently been pushed to the centre of Jewish fears that the kind of hate we have experienced in the past might be rearing up again. To me, such comparisons and manipulations of Jewish history are just as disgusting when made by Jewish leadership as they are when made by Ken Livingstone.

 

The fears of course are valid, and genuine. There are far too many aspects of today’s world that smack of the 1930s and remind us that despite saying “Never Again,” the political system we live under is still the one in which fascists seized power and the Holocaust was allowed to happen. The festering presence of anti-Semitism in the political establishment is one of them.

 

But so, too, is the migrant crisis, the UK’s hostile environment, and the election of a US President with known far-right associations (who the British Board of Deputies hypocritically congratulated, as many have been quick to remind them).

 

In the context of Labour and the wider UK Left, where false accusations of anti-Semitism have frequently been used to shut down protest against Israel, the first and most important step is to get people to acknowledge that anti-Semitism is still a problem, and one that cannot be swept under the carpet by quoting your anti-racist record, or crew of Jewish friends. A full throttled and blatantly ideological attack on one particular party and one particular politician, manipulating every tiny bit of circumstantial and even Facebook evidence, is not the way to achieve this, particularly as Corbyn has acknowledged the need for action.

 

Yesterday, in an almost farcical display of Jewish politics, two Jewish demonstrations faced off outside Parliament, one protesting Corbyn under the slogan “Enough Is Enough,” the other defending him and feeling the slogan was a better fit for the Jewish Board of Deputies. Many of those standing by Corbyn were non- or anti-Zionists, and there was the usual name calling — “self hating Jews” and “kapos” from the other side.

 

If the Board of Deputies really wants to tackle anti-Semitism, it would do well to spend some time focusing on the conversations that need to be had in our own community, and working to include non-Zionist voices.

 

Jeremy Corbyn has apologised for the mistakes he has made previously and the hurt they have caused, and once again re-stated his commitment to tackle anti-Semitism. He has taken firm action against anti-Semitic incidents on numerous occasions. He has even, in a move that disappointed many of his supporters, including myself and other Jews, publicly spoken against BDS.

 

Difficult conversations need to be had, and at the moment, Jeremy Corbyn seems far more willing and capable of having those conversations than many of the organizations claiming to represent the Jewish community.

 

Annie Cohen is a student of Yiddish and History and an organizer with Jewdas in London.

[Anubis]

I don't think there is any anti semitism in the Labour Party. I've never seen or heard anything anti semitic. I've seen people getting sacked for criticising war crimes committed by Israeli armed forces though and Ken Livingstone getting suspended for stating irrefutable facts.

I can't agree with you there, Boss. I don't think there is anywhere near the level of anti-Semitism alleged against Labour, and the present campaign is almost certainly politically, rather than ideologically motivated. But I have seen posts on social media that have made me cringe and I have felt the need to challenge them.

 

I'm also not a fan of the word Zionist and it's various derivatives, but don't have time to explain at the moment. I'll return to that tonight when I've more time.

[Jairzinho]

Some of the cry-bullies are up arms again because journalists asked them questions.

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1385891894846152&id=989095877859091

 

Excellent, that.