Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Dr Nowt]

The EU won’t agree a deal - they’re holding us against our will and bullying/betraying the 52%. We need to take back control, leave immediately and stop these unelected bureaucrats overriding our sovereignty.

 

The EU make the best of a situation entirely of our making and negotiate a deal as we keep demanding - they’re not offering more and longer than we ask for extensions, so are callously leaving the 48% to their fate.

 

Its almost like they can’t do anything without being cunts and all other permutations are relentlessly interpreted myopically to arrive at the above conclusion, irrespective of any other context.

[Red Shift]

5 hours ago, Gnasher said:

I think you're pretty much on the button there. 

 

What does this EU message say to the  48%  or more who want to stay in thw eu and those marching in London yesterday? The answer I suspect is  similar to the message they gave to the youth of Greece, which was go fuck yourself.

After Juncker’s  unintended (imo) verbalised thoughts went viral, more significantly, no member states backed his statement. Macron later made an independant statement of a veto.

 

I think the EU are playing both sides still. A bob each way - and why not? They’ve got a new Treaty that gives them advantages over a clean break, and as we’ve already diagnosed - the polls are shifting toward remain. Corbyn and Co can really sense the tide turning.

 

A significant kick of the can now, and a remain election campaign, could bring a very close result - the hard line brexiteers will suck farage’s dick - and those votes will come from the tories. However, they are diminishing.

 

Still though, the six million pound question: which belongs in the other topic....should Labour ditch Corbyn.

[Bobby Hundreds]

The polls might shift towards remain but there's no way there'll be another in out referendum. 

[Red Shift]

7 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

The polls might shift towards remain but there's no way there'll be another in out referendum. 

I think there may be a move right now, to pass legislation for a 2nd referendum and vote on it tomorrow (Monday) but obviously, they’ll need weeks to organise it - would the EU agree?

[Anubis]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/20/peoples-vote-split-by-power-struggle-at-crucial-time-for-alliance

 

A précis of the story from Guardian Live:

 

 

All is not well at the People’s Vote campaign, Rowena Mason reports: clashes between PR guru Roland Rudd and Labour peer Peter Mandelson have sent the organisation into crisis just as the prospect of testing MPs’ support for a second referendum becomes a reality.

Alastair Campbell’s involved, too, as a leak to the Mail on Sunday showed:

The emails suggested Mandelson and Alastair Campbell, another former New Labour communications adviser, had been attempting to work together against Rudd earlier this year. In one email, Campbell said: “I do not see how this gets done without a public battle and it should happen soon and be fast and brutal.”

[aws]

We'll be leaving on 31st October or shortly thereafter if a few weeks is needed to pass the necessary legislation.  We'll then have a General election which Boris will win comfortably. 

[skend04]

This October 31st date is just for Brexit voting simpletons, if the deal had been passed they'd have believed we were out and nothing had changed. It's all a ruse for Boris to win an election during the transition period. The shit won't hit the fan until December 2020.

 

The deal was defeated yesterday and if May's deal histrionics are anything to go by it's not coming back without amendments. There's no time to pass the legislation for it now in time for Boris not to kill himself in a ditch.

[Barrington Womble]

7 minutes ago, skend04 said:

This October 31st date is just for Brexit voting simpletons, if the deal had been passed they'd have believed we were out and nothing had changed. It's all a ruse for Boris to win an election during the transition period. The shit won't hit the fan until December 2020.

 

The deal was defeated yesterday and if May's deal histrionics are anything to go by it's not coming back without amendments. There's no time to pass the legislation for it now in time for Boris not to kill himself in a ditch.

Did the deal get beat yesterday? I thought they never voted on it. 

[skend04]

13 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

Did the deal get beat yesterday? I thought they never voted on it. 

Could be wrong but from reading reports, as far as I understand, the Letwin amendment was all part of the vote on Boris's deal. That's why Bercow has to decide if it can be bought back for a vote tomorrow. Plus, Boris's bluster is just to hide the fact he has had to ask for the extension that he wasn't going to ask for.

 

Edit: Just rechecked. They debated the motion on Saturday so 

[Gnasher]

30 minutes ago, aws said:

We'll be leaving on 31st October or shortly thereafter if a few weeks is needed to pass the necessary legislation.  We'll then have a General election which Boris will win comfortably. 

Its looking that way.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

The EU are prepared to offer a 3 month extension if the deal doesn't go through, according to Breaking News from Times sources. 

[Gnasher]

9 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

Did the deal get beat yesterday? I thought they never voted on it. 

They didn't vote on it.

[Gnasher]

Just now, Nelly-Torres said:

The EU are prepared to offer a 3 month extension if the deal doesn't go through, according to Breaking News from Times sources. 

 

If so at  least they've done something right for once, so I applaud them for that. The bunch of cunts.

[Barrington Womble]

4 minutes ago, skend04 said:

Could be wrong but from reading reports, as far as I understand, the Letwin amendment was all part of the vote on Boris's deal. That's why Bercow has to decide if it can be bought back for a vote tomorrow. Plus, Boris's bluster is just to hide the fact he has had to ask for the extension that he wasn't going to ask for.

Strange, I am not sure I understand that and if that was the case, it seems madness the government didn't vote on it - what a fuck up from them. I am right in thinking the reason it wasn't voted on is Johnson got in a strop and went home? 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

2 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

Strange, I am not sure I understand that and if that was the case, it seems madness the government didn't vote on it - what a fuck up from them. I am right in thinking the reason it wasn't voted on is Johnson got in a strop and went home? 

I'm just reading this. This might clarify some things. Haven't read it all yet. 

 

 

[skend04]

Just now, Barry Wom said:

Strange, I am not sure I understand that and if that was the case, it seems madness the government didn't vote on it - what a fuck up from them. I am right in thinking the reason it wasn't voted on is Johnson got in a strop and went home? 

Sorry, just read another analysis. The motion has already been debated, apparently it's possible, as with May's deal, that the commons can't debate the same motion again. That's what Bercow has to decide on. If they do then they can also rerun the Letwin amendment so still end up delaying the passing of the deal.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

The defeatism on this thread is worthy of the FF circa 2010.

[Anubis]

44 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

Strange, I am not sure I understand that and if that was the case, it seems madness the government didn't vote on it - what a fuck up from them. I am right in thinking the reason it wasn't voted on is Johnson got in a strop and went home? 

Think it may be that the Letwin amendment says the withdrawal agreement has to be ratified first.

[Barrington Womble]

51 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

I'm just reading this. This might clarify some things. Haven't read it all yet. 

 

 

Who'd want to be in bercows shoes now. If he blocks the MV, the right wing nutters will be ready to kill him. 

50 minutes ago, skend04 said:

Sorry, just read another analysis. The motion has already been debated, apparently it's possible, as with May's deal, that the commons can't debate the same motion again. That's what Bercow has to decide on. If they do then they can also rerun the Letwin amendment so still end up delaying the passing of the deal.

 

9 minutes ago, Anubis said:

Think it may be that the Letwin amendment says the withdrawal agreement has to be ratified first.

It's fucking complicated isn't it? I think I follow this quite closely and I don't have a clue! 

[sir roger]

Bercow is loving the limelight and buzzing off Brexiteers anger so he won’t give a shit. He has only got a limited shelf life to cause chaos.

[Dr Nowt]

Bercow’s sense of theatre when he delivers his decision on that tomorrow will be a sight to behold. 

 

[Barrington Womble]

39 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Bercow is loving the limelight and buzzing off Brexiteers anger so he won’t give a shit. He has only got a limited shelf life to cause chaos.

He's only got till 31st hasn't he?

[Dr Nowt]

12 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

He's only got till 31st hasn't he?

Yep. But realistically whether Johnson gets his deal over the line or is fought off one way or another with an extension and election to follow will be decided under his watch.

[Anubis]

DUP won’t support a customs union amendment.

[No2]

The DUP are heading towards a situation were remain is better than all alternatives. They hate the EU but only because they think it's the British thing to do. When comparing their hate for the EU with their love of the union it's night and day. They can sell remain to their support a million times easier than this deal and piss off the man that betrayed them at the same time.