Islamic Positive Thread

[Strontium]

2 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I on the other hand, have profited from wearing a mask in that respect.

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, SasaS said:

No, I think that point is, if there is a point, typically shallow.

The only good thing about niqab which would qualify it for the "positivity" thread is that if you wear it a western, culturally Christian country and nobody gives you any grief, it proves that country is liberal and at ease with its values.

Niqab is the symbol of oppression of women and Muslims who choose to wear it or mandate wearing it are of the most conservative and oppressive variety.

 

People (in the West) oppose it for two reasons, one is it is a symbol of Islam (in its most radical variety) and other is that Western cultures generally denounce covering of your face in public, that is why there is so much push back against masks.
 

Masks worn for protection against infection are a temporary necessity, it has nothing do to with covering your face and body so other men who don't own you, like your father or your husband does, wouldn't perv over you in public.   

Hmm.

 

Interesting opinion, which I'll take into consideration alongside that of the women interviewed in that article, who actually know what they're talking about. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, SasaS said:

The only good thing about niqab which would qualify it for the "positivity" thread is...

I only really posted that article in the "positive" thread because I didn't know where to put it. I just thought it was interesting to hear the opinions of women who choose to wear veils, rather than just rely on assumptions.

[Strontium]

I think it is a positive thing that women who feel they have to wear a face covering have a bit more confidence to come out now that everyone's wearing them.

 

I think it's a shame they feel they have to wear them in ordinary times though.

[Rico1304]

Blokes telling women what to wear. Blokes defending that.  Madness. 

[SasaS]

15 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Hmm.

 

Interesting opinion, which I'll take into consideration alongside that of the women interviewed in that article, who actually know what they're talking about. 

Unless I am grossly mistaken, full veils are not obligatory in Islam and are usually found in the most radical Islamic communities and countries. You can choose to wear them, as you can choose to accept the tenets of Wahhabi Islam for example, which does not alter the said tenets.

It can be practical because women don't need to dress up to go out, but I think other rules tend to outweigh that one advantage. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

21 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Blokes telling women what to wear. Blokes defending that.  Madness. 

Again. The little ladies (bless 'em) have got you to protect them.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

17 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Unless I am grossly mistaken, full veils are not obligatory in Islam and are usually found in the most radical Islamic communities and countries. You can choose to wear them, as you can choose to accept the tenets of Wahhabi Islam for example, which does not alter the said tenets.

It can be practical because women don't need to dress up to go out, but I think other rules tend to outweigh that one advantage. 

They're not obligatory. Some women  (contrary to what Stronts and Rico like to claim) choose to wear them. We don't often hear from those women in the UK media, which is why I thought that article was interesting. 

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Again. The little ladies (bless 'em) have got you to protect them.

Luckily all the men are wearing their head coverings. I’m mean, oh, hold on. And it’s not like there are police beating and spitting at women who don’t. 
 

Labour supporters promoting religious laws? Mad. 

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

They're not obligatory. Some women  (contrary to what Stronts and Rico like to claim) choose to wear them. We don't often hear from those women in the UK media, which is why I thought that article was interesting. 

Some women do.  I mean, if you are told you’ll go to hell if you don’t, or your family beat the fuck out of you or kill you for deciding not to. Who wouldn’t? 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Luckily all the men are wearing their head coverings. I’m mean, oh, hold on. And it’s not like there are police beating and spitting at women who don’t. 
 

Labour supporters promoting religious laws? Mad. 

Do the UK Police do that? Never seen it on the BBC News. If you've got any links, please share. 

 

Also, let me know where you've seen me (I assume I'm the Labour supporter you're referring to) promoting religious laws. That'll be an eye-opener. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Some women do.  I mean, if you are told you’ll go to hell if you don’t, or your family beat the fuck out of you or kill you for deciding not to. Who wouldn’t? 

We've already established that you refuse to acknowledge the existence of Muslim women who are capable of making their own minds up. You don't have to provide a further demonstration of your wilful ignorance. 

[Rico1304]

17 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

We've already established that you refuse to acknowledge the existence of Muslim women who are capable of making their own minds up. You don't have to provide a further demonstration of your wilful ignorance. 

Imagine, just imagine I could post thousands of videos of Islamist police attacking women who decide they don’t want to wear it? 
 

It’s a fucking weird hill to die on, I thought religious extremism was the cause of the right. 

[A Red]

12 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

We've already established that you refuse to acknowledge the existence of Muslim women who are capable of making their own minds up. You don't have to provide a further demonstration of your wilful ignorance. 

I'm sure there are Muslim women that wear face coverings voluntarily, go to the likes of Batley and Dewsbury and you will see loads wearing them. The problem is many of them dont speak english and are not allowed to learn it, you ask them what they would prefer (in any language) and they will defer to their men, on any subject.

 

You are not going to find out whether it is a choice, they are not allowed to answer, forget surveys. I spent a time working in this area and it was clear how much choice they had (on anything).

[Rico1304]

7 minutes ago, A Red said:

I'm sure there are Muslim women that wear face coverings voluntarily, go to the likes of Batley and Dewsbury and you will see loads wearing them. The problem is many of them dont speak english and are not allowed to learn it, you ask them what they would prefer (in any language) and they will defer to their men, on any subject.

 

You are not going to find out whether it is a choice, they are not allowed to answer, forget surveys. I spent a time working in this area and it was clear how much choice they had (on anything).

What they need is to convert to the religion that favours women. You know the one, oh hang on. There isn’t one. 
 

At least all the blokes wear the veil too. Solidarity sister. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Imagine, just imagine I could post thousands of videos of Islamist police attacking women who decide they don’t want to wear it? 
 

It’s a fucking weird hill to die on, I thought religious extremism was the cause of the right. 

You could. But you don't need to.  Because nobody denies that there are millions of women oppressed by Islamist societies.  And nobody here supports or defends that.

 

But it would take a special kind of stupid (at best) to conflate that with the experience of British women who choose to wear a veil.

[lifetime fan]

Can we just fuck all religion off please? 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, lifetime fan said:

Can we just fuck all religion off please? 

How?

[Rico1304]

Just now, AngryofTuebrook said:

You could. But you don't need to.  Because nobody denies that there are millions of women oppressed by Islamist societies.  And nobody here supports or defends that.

 

But it would take a special kind of stupid (at best) to conflate that with the experience of British women who choose to wear a veil.

It would take a fucking special kind of stupid to not acknowledge that men originating from their Islamist societies don’t carry over the oppression to their new country.  I mean, it’s impossible to get egg and chips in Benidorm. 

[lifetime fan]

Just now, Nummer Neunzehn said:

How?

It’s late on a Saturday night and I’m pissed out my tree, I’m not even going to try and respond sensibly. 
 

But the world would be a better place without religion. Of that I’m convinced. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

8 minutes ago, A Red said:

I'm sure there are Muslim women that wear face coverings voluntarily, go to the likes of Batley and Dewsbury and you will see loads wearing them. The problem is many of them dont speak english and are not allowed to learn it, you ask them what they would prefer (in any language) and they will defer to their men, on any subject.

 

You are not going to find out whether it is a choice, they are not allowed to answer, forget surveys. I spent a time working in this area and it was clear how much choice they had (on anything).

"Forget surveys" is a daft thing to say.

 

You're looking at a sample of women and extrapolating from that. A well-constructed survey does exactly the same thing, but much more accurately. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

It would take a fucking special kind of stupid to not acknowledge that men originating from their Islamist societies don’t carry over the oppression to their new country.  I mean, it’s impossible to get egg and chips in Benidorm. 

Some men do. Nobody denies that. 

 

What would it take to get you to admit that  (a) some women freely choose to wear a niqab or burqa and (b) all women should be free to wear what they want?

[A Red]

Just now, AngryofTuebrook said:

"Forget surveys" is a daft thing to say.

 

You're looking at a sample of women and extrapolating from that. A well-constructed survey does exactly the same thing, but much more accurately. 

It isnt because some people asked cannot answer honestly.

[Rico1304]

3 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Some men do. Nobody denies that. 

 

What would it take to get you to admit that  (a) some women freely choose to wear a niqab or burqa and (b) all women should be free to wear what they want?

I think if I told you that wearing an Everton kit for the rest of your life would guarantee you everything you wanted in the afterlife would mean you wore it. Even if you didn’t want to. And when asked, you think, ‘fuck, I’ve got too much to lose’. Then the blokes in their speedos would tell you that you were racist. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 minutes ago, A Red said:

It isnt because some people asked cannot answer honestly.

And a well-constructed survey will allow for that much better than the guesswork that you or I could muster.