Graeme Souness the Player

[KMD7]

Brazil 82 would have won the world cup if they had Maguire in Defence

[The Guest]

3 hours ago, easytoslip said:

Klopp has just been on the telly and said Beckenbauer was the best player he ever saw, I'm not sure he if knows a lot about the game mind. 

It’s all relative.  Klopp’s an intelligent fella I’m sure he’d get exactly what I’m saying.  It seems to be going right over a lot of people’s heads though.

[3 Stacks]

4 hours ago, easytoslip said:

Klopp has just been on the telly and said Beckenbauer was the best player he ever saw, I'm not sure he if knows a lot about the game mind. 

He's also said it was Messi not that long ago. "Best player I ever saw" is a meaningless platitude. 

[TheHowieLama]

18 minutes ago, The Guest said:

It’s all relative. 

exactly what I’m saying.  It seems to be going right over a lot of people’s heads though.

To be fair mate you are the only guy who is thinking there would be time travel involved.

 

Everyone else realises that if a modern lower league pro came up in the 80's he would be a less fit lower league pro.

[easytoslip]

4 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

He's also said it was Messi not that long ago. "Best player I ever saw" is a meaningless platitude. 

Righto. 

[The Guest]

Klopp was also 10 years old in 1977 when Beckenbauer left Bayern to go to America which was also the last year he played for Germany.  I don’t know exactly what Klopp has said about him but I honestly doubt he actually believes he’s the best player he’s seen.

 

I’m not just on about fitness Howie.  I’m on about every facet of the game constantly evolving so over years players decision making and skill goes higher and higher.  You only need to watch a game from any of those eras to see the vast difference.  Fitness alone would mean modern lower league teams would run rings around the top sides of their day but it’s more than that.  There’s some people in this thread that think the fitness is not even an issue either they’re that dense.

 

When people say things like Souness was a better player than Gerrard it’s comical.  There’s absolutely no evidence to back it up.  You’re just living in some mythical fantasy land.  Gerrard’s career coincided with the era where the top players all began to be concentrated at the same teams like never before and he was in the worst of the bunch of sides consistently yet stood out and carried the team to trophies himself.  The standard of football started to kick on and it’s unrecognisable to the 70s and 80s now.  When you look back at teams of the year from the Souness era the players were from all over the league which is evidence of that.

[3 Stacks]

21 minutes ago, easytoslip said:

Righto. 

https://www.eurosport.co.uk/football/football-news-jurgen-klopp-lionel-messi-is-the-best-ive-seen-but-van-dijk-should-have-won_vid1267236/video.shtml

 

It's almost like it's a meaningless question. 

[Ronnie Whelan]

On 10/05/2020 at 16:03, The Guest said:

I was born in 85 I’ve watched plenty of old games of Liverpool and other teams.  I had all the European cup finals and the road to the finals on a dvd.  I had the 80s cup finals against Everton as well before YouTube even existed.  I’ve watched plenty of big match revisited when I was at Uni.  I honestly watch football non stop.  I reckon about 90% of English top flight matches that are televised and don’t clash with another and plenty of lower league games as well.  There’s no shame in watching old games on YouTube either because you can actually get the whole 90 mins of matches instead of chopped highlights.  I’ve watched hours and hours of old world cups as well.

 

If you are watching these old games like I have done then you’re either clueless or watching it with rose tinted spectacles on if you think the standard isn’t absolutely dire compared to now.  The amount of punting the ball under no pressure, laughably bad positioning and comical mistakes on the ball makes the current women’s game look reasonable.  The likelihood is you aren’t bothering to watch anything and just talking shite without actually thinking about any of it.

Great players in Souey's era would be great players today. Great players adapt. Giles was probably 5'6 and aside from being one of the best midfielders to have played in this country, he was hard as fuck, alongside Bremner who was a midget as well. Pogba is a better athlete than either of them, but I have no doubt Giles and Bremner would get the better over any of the current United midfield. Bobby Charlton would be superior to any of the current United team, as would Best, Law or the Busby Babes. 

 

A lot is made of physical attributes and athleticism. Very important yes, but a footballing brain is the most important part of a footballer. Great players have time on the ball. There was this story I heard Geoge Best telling of when he was coaching kids in the US and a few of them were laughing at this fat old man who was also coaching at the camp. George Best kicked several balls over to him and pointed at a goal post beckoning him to hit the crossbar which was a good distance away. He kept hitting it each time. The fat old man was Puskas. Lovely story that highlights that skill and technique  trump all else.

 

Souness was so good he made the other world class midfielders in the Liverpool team look nearly ordinary. I think you could make a case for him being our 2nd best player of all time after Kenny.

[Ronnie Whelan]

https://www.football365.com/news/portrait-of-an-icon-ferenc-puskas

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Souness was not unaware off the values of nutrition he brought them to us when he came as manager, he found it at Sampdoria in the 80’s. Translated well to Dicks, Piechnik, and Stewart in that glorious spell we had. Were we shite because the fitter players were shit footballers? 
The footballers with class in the 70’s and 80’s would have utilised the advantages the players have now, the good players now would have been good then. Class is permanent, shit footballers are shit, fit or not.

 

[Ronnie Whelan]

6 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

Souness was not unaware off the values of nutrition he brought them to us when he came as manager, he found it at Sampdoria in the 80’s. Translated well to Dicks, Piechnik, and Stewart in that glorious spell we had. Were we shite because the fitter players were shit footballers? 
The footballers with class in the 70’s and 80’s would have utilised the advantages the players have now, the good players now would have been good then. Class is permanent, shit footballers are shit, fit or not.

 

Well said.

[The Guest]

Well said?  Jesus fucking christ.  It’s like a competition of how thick of a comment you can come out with.  Were Julian Dicks etc playing against the 1984 team? No they weren’t so despite them being shite in comparison to that years teams you can’t definitively say they would have been beaten by the 84 side.  They probably would have been because when comparing the early 90s years to the 80s there’s not a significant difference in the general standard.  The technology wasn’t as vastly different to the 2000s and all the influences and experiences from then.

[Bjornebye]

The boss can say whatever the fuck he wants. 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

10 minutes ago, The Guest said:

Well said?  Jesus fucking christ.  It’s like a competition of how thick of a comment you can come out with.  Were Julian Dicks etc playing against the 1984 team? No they weren’t so despite them being shite in comparison to that years teams you can’t definitively say they would have been beaten by the 84 side.  They probably would have been because when comparing the early 90s years to the 80s there’s not a significant difference in the general standard.  The technology wasn’t as vastly different to the 2000s and all the influences and experiences from then.

Stop digging the hole mate, you’re making a show of yourself. The only one not getting it is you.

[VladimirIlyich]

Great players adapt. Tom Finney and Stanley Matthews were doing in the 1940s and 1950s what is standard now. Add to this that they wore hobnail boots,kicked medicine balls and played on muddy and grassless pitches. Shite they were!

[easytoslip]

Skill is the same as its always been, there's no substitute. 

They maybe fitter, well healthier but there's always been extra fit players, say in boxing for instance, they be fitter again and heavier  but get caught on the button whatever, off you pop, no matter how big and fit you are. 

[Tj hooker]

38 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

The boss can say whatever the fuck he wants. 

This 100%  with fucking bells on 

[The Guest]

34 minutes ago, easytoslip said:

Skill is the same as its always been, there's no substitute. 

They maybe fitter, well healthier but there's always been extra fit players, say in boxing for instance, they be fitter again and heavier  but get caught on the button whatever, off you pop, no matter how big and fit you are. 

This is just complete and utter nonsense.  Players and teams develop new skills and methods all the time whether defensive or offensive.  Players and coaches then develop skills and methods to counter them and it goes around and around and meanwhile the players are getting more and more consistent at doing them than the people who originally created them.  It’s laughable that you don’t realise this.

 

Everything is relative.  Players are far more consistent in performance now than they have ever been but people like you just can’t see the wood for the trees.  The standard of attacking and defending has gone up immeasurably since those days and yet you still see less mistakes and less bad decisions from players even though the standard that they are playing against is immeasurably higher in comparison.

[easytoslip]

12 minutes ago, The Guest said:

This is just complete and utter nonsense.  Players and teams develop new skills and methods all the time whether defensive or offensive.  Players and coaches then develop skills and methods to counter them and it goes around and around and meanwhile the players are getting more and more consistent at doing them than the people who originally created them.  It’s laughable that you don’t realise this.

 

Everything is relative.  Players are far more consistent in performance now than they have ever been but people like you just can’t see the wood for the trees.  The standard of attacking and defending has gone up immeasurably since those days and yet you still see less mistakes and less bad decisions from players even though the standard that they are playing against is immeasurably higher in comparison.

People like me? You must be the only straight thinking reasonable chap around then, a surfeit  of knowledge I'll be bound, whatever crab apple whatever. 

[johnsusername]

Did Graeme Souness make anyone else cry this morning? He's been doing the media rounds as he's raising money for charity. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/may/22/graeme-souness-to-swim-channel-for-charitys-appeal-on-rare-skin-disorder

[johnsusername]

 

[johnsusername]

 

[Harry's Lad]

70 years of age and a dodgy ticker? Hats off and the best of luck to him.

[JohnnyH]

3 hours ago, johnsusername said:

 

 

Saw that earlier.  Proper emotional moment.  Hell of a thing he's taking on.

[lifetime fan]

He’s not everyone’s cup of tea as a person, but how can you watch that and not respect the man.