Tony Barrett

[philyhamann]

In houliiers last season the crowd was turning on him and it was quite vocal at the matches and on the net. Of the few forums i visit, this is the only one i have noticed that has a large(ish) anti rafa crowd.

 

Also agree with AWS points. If Rafa gets to the point where he cant stand the shit any mre or think he cant take us any firther under the current owners, he will walk. I dont think loosing out on wages will bother him.

 

The only difference is that Houllier didn't have the yanks to blame for all his woes and "lack" of cash. And yes, people were giving Benitez stick last season quite a bit in some home games.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Ferguson has the cash which he raised himself through smart purchases, how many times has he sold some shit academy player for 4-6m just cause he gave them a few chances? Unlike Benitez he makes some big purchases instead of a few pointless ones at 6-8m a pop.

 

Yeah Veron for £328 Million was a dead smart purchase, and All them keepers he has had, and what about the money he wasted on Forlan. Fergie has made some real bloopers in the transfer market himself, and using their Academy as a stick to beat Rafa with is ridiculous, as Fergie has been there 21 years and it took time to build their Academy. Then again you weren't probably born in 86 when Fergie took over where you.

 

Philly If I was you I would quit now and go and draw some shit pictures with crayons and shit.

[JohnnyH]

I don't buy all this "Rafa won't say anything because it's in his contract" or "Rafa won't walk out on £5m a year" stuff because it ignores some simple points:

 

1. Rafa already has so much money that it's unlikely to be the main driving force behind his career decisions

 

2.He's an obsessive - but about football success not money

 

3, He's here because he likes the club, the area, the support and respect he (mostly) gets and he sees our success as his "life project"

 

4. Within six months of leaving he'd get another top job on the same or more money in any event

 

If he gets fucked about too much there'll come a point where he decides he'd rather be elsewhere and when that happens no contract is going to tie him down to do something he doesn't want to be doing.

 

Is exactly the case. When I listen to the drama lie-obsessed rubbish that has been spouted by 1 or 2 here and on either sites about Rafa it boils my blood. The idea he has something in his contract where he can't speak about anything other than football is absurd. He's not talking now because he knows it will achieve nothing. The owners want a level of remuneration for the club that no one will pay, so Rafa bitching will achieve nothing. He knows we don't have a pot to piss in so why broadcast it publically. He'll happily let Tony Barrett though (thank fuck for Tony Barrett by the way, another good article)

 

The suggestion he was wrong to get a salary increase when he was earning less the David Moyes and Sam Allardyce is another case of people trying to create rubbish to stab him in the back with. And the suggestion that he was constantly sending back the contract because of his wages.

 

Rafa adores this club. With a fraction of the grief at Valencia he walked. Yet he has stayed because he knows he can go down in history here.

 

The anti Rafa campaign reminds me of the Lisbon vote No campaign in Ireland. There are concerns there that deserve to be discussed and debated, but the anti campaign is so full of sensationalist lies and rubbish that any sensible debate is lost.

 

The pay off is too big for him to walk.

 

I really hate seeing this kind of disrespect to a Liverpool manager. Rafa is loaded already. If he walked out on us, the Real manager would be punted in a heart beat and Rafa would be in. Failing that, clubs would be falling over themselves offering him the sun the moon and the stars to manage thre club. For one, Man City would double his Liverpool salary to take over their club.

[barosrocks]

Is exactly the case. When I listen to the drama lie-obsessed rubbish that has been spouted by 1 or 2 here and on either sites about Rafa it boils my blood. The idea he has something in his contract where he can't speak about anything other than football is absurd. He's not talking now because he knows it will achieve nothing. The owners want a level of remuneration for the club that no one will pay, so Rafa bitching will achieve nothing. He knows we don't have a pot to piss in so why broadcast it publically. He'll happily let Tony Barrett though (thank fuck for Tony Barrett by the way, another good article)

 

The suggestion he was wrong to get a salary increase when he was earning less the David Moyes and Sam Allardyce is another case of people trying to create rubbish to stab him in the back with. And the suggestion that he was constantly sending back the contract because of his wages.

 

Rafa adores this club. With a fraction of the grief at Valencia he walked. Yet he has stayed because he knows he can go down in history here.

 

The anti Rafa campaign reminds me of the Lisbon vote No campaign in Ireland. There are concerns there that deserve to be discussed and debated, but the anti campaign is so full of sensationalist lies and rubbish that any sensible debate is lost.

 

 

 

I really hate seeing this kind of disrespect to a Liverpool manager. Rafa is loaded already. If he walked out on us, the Real manager would be punted in a heart beat and Rafa would be in. Failing that, clubs would be falling over themselves offering him the sun the moon and the stars to manage thre club. For one, Man City would double his Liverpool salary to take over their club.

 

Excellent post - gotta spread it first

[coop]

Good post Johnny mate.

[redrosetints]

We need both.

 

You putting it out there again ?

 

(Ducks and runs away from Tom as quick as possible)

[redrosetints]

I follow your reasoning about getting rid of the yanks but I've come to the opposite conclusion. Neither of them will go until either they're forced out by the banks or they decide to cash in and move on.

 

I think the banks will live with them so long as they can pay the interest and cough up some extra security or equity from time to time. Even if the existing banks want out when the loan period expires, replacement finance will be found (more fees and higher interest so not great for the club).

 

Realistically we're waiting for them to cash in when they're ready to do so. However there's a big problem in that the share control structure seems to make it unlikely that either can easily sell their half without the co-operation of the other. Which means that whenever one of them finds a possible buyer the other will probably block it unless the deal is extra sweet for him too. They also seem to hate each other's guts so that is another factor not conducive to getting an exit agreed between them.

 

I'm hoping that they will jointly try and find a buyer if the capital markets settle down in the next year or so but failing that getting rid of one first would probably accelerate the exit of the other.

 

Aye, would they also do the right thing, if the banks were knocking on the door and avoid putting us into administartion ? Or would we just get left to rot like Corinthians were ?

 

Todays article spells it out, its not the manager we should worry about, not now, its the owners. DDs chat showed that the personal abuse does actually hurt and he's not as thick skinned as he'd make out. As Brian said, whilst under the ROman palace with The PFJ and PJF fighting each other, we need to unite against eh common enemy, no not Rafa, the owners.

 

Then we come full ciricle though, as they dont want to nor have to go until they want to. I think the best we can hope for is that the 'brand' of the premiership continues to rise and we continue to be the 'premier' in all senses league of footie in the world. Then maybe, just maybe, the owners wil get their money and go. My fear is that with Madrid on a spending cycle and the new foriegn tax laws enabling teams abroad to offer more money, we'll see the opposite a decline int he value of the premiership and then who knows where we will end up. Leeds away in League 2 ? I hope not.

[redrosetints]

I think a lot of people feel the same way as Philly does.

 

I know a hell of a lot of match going reds, home and away who feel the tide has shifted.

 

I think thats correct, I think many are now prepared to go for Rafa and forget the owners. The writing was on the wall when Chris Bascombe wrote his 'should we give the owners some slack' article. CLearly, the battle lines, for some at least, are being redrawn, facing Rafa, not the owners.

 

Terrible, but if thats how they feel. Great divide and conquer tactics by the owners though.

[philyhamann]

Yeah Veron for £328 Million was a dead smart purchase, and All them keepers he has had, and what about the money he wasted on Forlan. Fergie has made some real bloopers in the transfer market himself, and using their Academy as a stick to beat Rafa with is ridiculous, as Fergie has been there 21 years and it took time to build their Academy. Then again you weren't probably born in 86 when Fergie took over where you.

 

Philly If I was you I would quit now and go and draw some shit pictures with crayons and shit.

 

The difference being that he has fucking won something with those players, right?

[Durango]

The difference being that he has fucking won something with those players, right?

Djemba-Djemba,Kleberson,Taibbi,Smith etc etc

[DJLJ]

Is exactly the case. When I listen to the drama lie-obsessed rubbish that has been spouted by 1 or 2 here and on either sites about Rafa it boils my blood. The idea he has something in his contract where he can't speak about anything other than football is absurd. He's not talking now because he knows it will achieve nothing. The owners want a level of remuneration for the club that no one will pay, so Rafa bitching will achieve nothing. He knows we don't have a pot to piss in so why broadcast it publically. He'll happily let Tony Barrett though (thank fuck for Tony Barrett by the way, another good article)

Have you seen his contract? No, didnt think so. So basically you don't know why he isn't talking now.

 

The suggestion he was wrong to get a salary increase when he was earning less the David Moyes and Sam Allardyce is another case of people trying to create rubbish to stab him in the back with. And the suggestion that he was constantly sending back the contract because of his wages.

 

Rafa adores this club. With a fraction of the grief at Valencia he walked. Yet he has stayed because he knows he can go down in history here.

Have you asked him what his motives for staying are? No, didn't think so. So then you don't know why it is and are just guessing, just like in the top paragraph.

 

The anti Rafa campaign reminds me of the Lisbon vote No campaign in Ireland. There are concerns there that deserve to be discussed and debated, but the anti campaign is so full of sensationalist lies and rubbish that any sensible debate is lost.

You making up things seems like the No vote in Ireland to me.

 

I really hate seeing this kind of disrespect to a Liverpool manager. Rafa is loaded already. If he walked out on us, the Real manager would be punted in a heart beat and Rafa would be in. Failing that, clubs would be falling over themselves offering him the sun the moon and the stars to manage thre club. For one, Man City would double his Liverpool salary to take over their club.

Again, you have no idea. Just making up more things in your quest to rubbish other peoples views. Definite No vote campaigner in Ireland.

[INTORRESTING]

Our record is 20 million in the transfer market, how many times has fergie broken that and also how long ago did he break that amount.

 

Continuity is hugely important, if Fergie's reign was in today's football climate he would have been sacked before he won his first title.

 

It is even more competitive now, If Wenger can be labelled a god after 3 titles and 4 fa cups in 13 years then i am happy to give rafa a few more years.

[philyhamann]

Djemba-Djemba,Kleberson,Taibbi,Smith etc etc

 

Champions League, Premiership, FA Cup etc

[malovski]

Or Ferguson. Or Mourinho. Last manager not to splash the cash and win League was Wenger.

 

Took the words out of my mouth, even when wenger last won the title, he wasnt shy in splashin the cash, its only the last 2 or 3 years when he's spent minimal amounts an look where they've fallen

[Durango]

Champions League, Premiership, FA Cup etc

I don't think any of them Players won Champions League,F.A Cups etc with United

[ratcatcher]

Wow! Liverpool need new owners story mixed in with benitez is \ isnt good enough!

 

Tell us something new, why dont you?

[JohnnyH]

Have you seen his contract? No, didnt think so. So basically you don't know why he isn't talking now.

 

 

Have you asked him what his motives for staying are? No, didn't think so. So then you don't know why it is and are just guessing, just like in the top paragraph.

 

 

You making up things seems like the No vote in Ireland to me.

 

 

Again, you have no idea. Just making up more things in your quest to rubbish other peoples views. Definite No vote campaigner in Ireland.

 

 

As opposed to all the "facts" about Rafa been gagged in his new contract for more money.

 

And the "Fact" of Rafa sending the contract back several times just looking for more money.

 

 

 

P.s so you don't think Rafa is financially secure, or that he wouldn't get another top job? Ok then.

[Red Nick]

The Times Online

 

 

Liverpool do not need a new manager, they need new owners

 

 

 

 

Tony Barrett

 

There is a growing feeling, in some quarters, that the time has come for Rafael Benitez, the Liverpool manager, to be relieved of his duties and sent back to Spain with three Premier League defeats in the Anfield club’s first eight games of the season having made knees jerk the length and breadth of the land.

 

There is a debate to be had about Benitez’s ability to guide Liverpool to the league title and it is one which will become more vociferous and increasingly polarised as the campaign wears on should results fail to pick up significantly. Until and unless he takes his team to the promised land after almost two decades in the wilderness then the Spaniard will be open to criticism, some of it justified and some of it not. That comes with the territory of being the manager of one of the world’s most famous and most successful clubs in a league which is becoming increasingly competitive.

 

Should Liverpool and Benitez fall short, mitigating circumstances will be put forward by those who believe he really is the real deal with blame for failure being laid at the door of Liverpool’s American owners, while the seemingly growing army of nay’sayers will argue that he has had enough time and enough money to be able to deliver regardless of the shambolic goings-on off the pitch.

 

That debate is healthy and it is totally justified. Benitez must be subject to the same kind of judgment as his predecessors at Anfield and only time will tell if he can live up to the standards that he set for himself last season when Liverpool fell just four points short of winning that all important first league title since the days when John Barnes’s shorts were tight through choice rather than because of an expanding waistline.

 

But anyone calling for his removal is missing the target as spectacularly as Ronnie Rosenthal did at Villa Park all those years ago and it is actually as ridiculously misplaced as fans of relegation-threatened clubs who argue that dropping down a division might actually be a good thing.

 

Firstly, who would make the decision? Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr are the owners and therefore the powerbrokers but they attend Liverpool games about as regularly as they are spoken of in glowing terms, so how could they possibly make an informed judgment about what is best for the team?

 

The fact that the duo are barely on speaking terms – a situation which won’t have been improved by Gillett wrongly accusing Hicks of being the one who claimed a spade would be in the ground to signal the start of work on Liverpool’s much-promised but still to be delivered new stadium within 60 days of their takeover in February 2007 – so how could they possibly come to a reasoned conclusion about the manager’s position?

 

There is also the Klinsmann factor to take into account. It was only a couple of years ago when Hicks and Gillett approached Jurgen behind Benitez’s back with a view to the former German international replacing the Spaniard in the Anfield hot seat. Since then, Benitez has guided Liverpool to runners-up spot in the Premier League while Klinsmann is probably now back driving a battered Beetle around Miami’s wonderful Collins Avenue having been found to be totally out of his depth running the show at Bayern Munich. If Jurgen was the answer back then, then heaven knows what the question was that Liverpool’s owners were asking. Would anyone really want them to ask it again?

 

Of equal importance is the problem which no-one seems to have provided a solution to. That is, who in their right minds would agree to manage a club as dysfunctional as Liverpool have become? Any top manager with a modicum of common sense would surely run a mile if offered the position. The job description would allude to running one of the world’s greatest clubs, working with players of renowned ability like Steven Gerrard, Pepe Reina and Fernando Torres and an opportunity to become an absolute legend to fans who crave success.

 

The reality, though, would be a job in which you have no guaranteed money to spend; an interest repayment-inspired book-balancing exercise that does not allow you to compete in the transfer market; owners who have failed to provide the kind of leadership which makes a manager’s job easier; the possibility of new investors coming in and not particularly fancying you; the kind of instability and disunity which makes progress, if not impossible, then certainly difficult in the extreme; and all this without a reduction in sky high expectations.

 

Liverpool do not need a change of manager. They need new owners, the kind who can make a proper, reasoned judgment of how their manager is performing. Until they have that then replacing Rafael Benitez would be about as logical as an argument put forward by George Gillett Jr

 

Thats probably the best article Bascombe has written in months

[Owen]

Fucking hell, you still going Phily? That's a lot of effort for not much of a reaction.

[DJLJ]

As opposed to all the "facts" about Rafa been gagged in his new contract for more money.

 

And the "Fact" of Rafa sending the contract back several times just looking for more money.

 

 

 

P.s so you don't think Rafa is financially secure, or that he wouldn't get another top job? Ok then.

 

Did you see his contract? Did you talk to him about why he is staying?

 

As for your 2 questions, yes I think he should be financially secure, but I don't know his finances, so I'm not speculating on them. I also think he most likely will get another top job, but again not speculating on it.

Edited October 7, 2009 by DJLJ
Can't spell for shit.

[Sangria]

Thats probably the best article Bascombe has written in months

 

Nick you been on the sauce mate.

[JohnnyH]

Did you see his contract? Did you talk to him about why he is staying?

 

As for your 2 questions, yes I think he should be financially secure, but I don't know his finances, so I'm not speculating on them. I also think he most likely will get another top job, but again not speculating on it.

 

Did the people who say he is staying only for money and was happy to be gagged in his contract for that extra money see his contract? Works both ways mate.

[King Emlyn]

Our record is 20 million in the transfer market, how many times has fergie broken that and also how long ago did he break that amount.

 

Continuity is hugely important, if Fergie's reign was in today's football climate he would have been sacked before he won his first title.

 

It is even more competitive now, If Wenger can be labelled a god after 3 titles and 4 fa cups in 13 years then i am happy to give rafa a few more years.

Good post

[DJLJ]

Did the people who say he is staying only for money and was happy to be gagged in his contract for that extra money see his contract? Works both ways mate.

 

I don't get this, "The others started, so it is ok if I do it aswell". Just because the others did it, doesn't mean you have to.

[The Party Boy]

The Jazz Prince saw Bascombe in John Lewis today.