Stoke Match Reaction FAO Dave Usher

[Malarkey]

I thought it was an excellent read, as ever. Pretty much sums up where I am right now as well.

 

Same here, sometimes this season I feel our performances don't merit our position at all.

[JMARKH]

I call it as I see it, and frankly I'm way past the point of giving a fuck whether people agree or not. Someone like Paul Tomkins gets ridiculed for being too positive, whilst others get hammered for being negative. I don't think I'm at either end of the scale, although I'll readily admit I'm nearer the negative than positive end. I never used to be though, it's events that have defined my opinions.

 

"The last thing you want to read is another bitchfest'? Well what the fuck do you want me to write, that everything is great and we were really unlucky against Stoke and I agree with every decision Rafa made and I think he was right not to switch to 442 and try and win the game?

 

Sorry, but I'm not going to bullshit anyone just because I'm scared to upset a few people who will say I've got an 'anti-Rafa agenda'. Fuck that, I watch the match, I write what I think about it. There's too much shite thrown at people who write stuff that might be a bit negative. A pundit says something on sky that's a bit critical, and all hell breaks loose on the forums. It's ridiculous. People have opinions, not everyone's opinion is the same. Live with it.

 

I tell you what really fucking does my head in though. Anyone who dares criticise any decision made by Rafa is automatically accused of having an 'agenda'. I hate that fucking word, it's absolute bollocks. I've got no agenda, I just don't like some of the things I'm seeing. If I agree with something he's done, I'll say it (look through the reports, there's countless examples of it). If I don't agree, I say that too.

 

I'm not happy with a lot of things he's done, and is continuing to do. Am I supposed to ignore those things and just paint a pretty picture of how everything is fantastic? Sorry, if you want that then go and read the official magazine. I'll write what I feel, and I'm true to myself. If that upsets some people, then too bad.

 

As for me insulting him personally, how the hell have I done that? It was an analogy. He was full of bravado, basically telling the mancs to bring it on, and then he settled for a point at Stoke. Maybe it was a little colourful, but no way is it a 'personal insult', stop being so sensitive.

 

You want me to 'nail my colours to the mast'? My colours are red. I want us to win, and if we don't do that when I think we should be, then I can get a little bit pissed off. Other than that, there's nothing else to say. Do I think he will win us the title? I wrote halfway through last season that I don't think he can, because he fucks about too much and can be too negative. I still feel that way, although the patchy form of our rivals this season has given us a real shot at it. He is the reason we have a squad capable of challenging, but I also think he's the biggest reason we mightn't do it. Not saying I'm right, it's just how I feel.

 

I'm not in any 'anti-Benitez camp', and that kind of labelling is the biggest problem with this forum at the moment. You criticise a decision, it's because you want him out or you've got an agenda or other such bollocks. No, it's because you don't agree with a decision and you're voicing an opinion. I've got serious doubts about his ability to win the title, so what. I can't help how I feel and I won't apologise for it.

 

I see the shit Brownie gets on here, people accusing him of wanting Rafa out but not having the balls to say it. I can honestly say that in any of the many conversations I've had with Brownie, I've never once heard him say he wants rid of Rafa. He'll say "I wish he'd do this" or "I wish he'd stop doing that" etc, but so far he has never said "I want him out".

 

As for me, well if and when the day comes when I decide that I've had enough and want him to go, I'll let you know. I did it with Houllier, and I'll do it again if I come to that conclusion. I took loads of shit when I decided I thought it was time for GH to go. Someone on another forum called me 'the anti-GH poster boy' and another said they hoped I get run over. And for what? For calling it as I saw it. I'm not at that point with Rafa, but if I end up there no doubt it will be the same, I'll get loads of shit for it from people behind keyboards.

 

Regarding your view on the match reports and how they aren't mentioning the football, well there's a couple of reasons for that. Firstly, match reports from games I was at are different to the ones I'm not at. For a start, there's a clue in the title. 'Match Report' if I'm there, 'Match Reaction' if I'm not.

 

I can't point out things you may have missed at the game if I'm not there myself, can I? So for those games I'll just give an overall view on what I thought of it.

 

Also, I don't recall using the words you quoted about us being top and it having 'nothing to do with Benitez'. I remember saying I feel that we are top 'despite him and not because of him', which admittedly is similar, but it's not as extreme and I stand by it.

 

I believe he has cost us points through not being positive enough (several examples), but he has also won us points through his organisation and tactical approach to games such as Chelsea away amongst others. I also feel that in terms of the Champions League he has no equal, and I'd always back him to win any two legged tie against anybody. A 38 game league season is a different matter. My gut feeling is that given the group of players we have, we could be doing better and should have more points.

 

Am I right? There's no way of knowing, it's just an opinion.

 

This place does my fucking head in at the moment, and I hardly post on here anymore because of it. Anyone who criticises anything gets jumped on and accused of having an agenda, and every single thread ends up in a slanging match between the same people fighting over the same points.

 

There's no reasoned debate (well there is, but it's hard to find it amongst all the shite so I can't even be arsed looking anymore), it's all petty arguing, and I can't be arsed getting involved with any of it, especially on the match threads which I avoid like the plague these days.

 

Maybe I could have been more critical of the players after yesterday, but I'm not sure who people want me to be having a go at. I pointed out Mascherano was shite, and Yossi too, and that Lucas didn't play well either. I'm not having a go at Kuyt or Gerrard because I don't think they were helped by the way we were set up. So who does that leave? The back four were fine and Riera was neither good nor bad.

 

I maintain that our biggest problem was a system that played into Stoke's hands. It doesn't matter if people agree or not, it's just my opinion.

 

Edit: Great post by Faustus by the way.

 

I've been accused of having an agenda but I haven't, I just get pissed off with the same mistakes, I did start a thread about wanting Rafa sacked if he doesn't deliver the title but that is borne out of anger with feeling the same disappointment as I did after the Hull game and my fear that no doubt pretty soon in the future I will be feeling down when he reverts to what he did yesterday again. I have been negged about 30 times today but I am proud of that achievement! Good post by the way.

[Chris]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the lad's post really. He had a question, Dave answered him. Drama over.

[drewy]

I've been accused of having an agenda but I haven't, I just get pissed off with the same mistakes, I did start a thread about wanting Rafa sacked if he doesn't deliver the title but that is borne out of anger with feeling the same disappointment as I did after the Hull game and my fear that no doubt pretty soon in the future I will be feeling down when he reverts to what he did yesterday again. I have been negged about 30 times today but I am proud of that achievement! Good post by the way.

 

Don't you fucking dare try and hang onto the coat tails of certain posters. The shite you posted is a million miles away from what the likes of Dave or Brownie are currently posting.

[SpeedyG]

Don't you fucking dare try and hang onto the coat tails of certain posters. The shite you posted is a million miles away from what the likes of Dave or Brownie are currently posting.

 

TBF mate they don't seem that far apart to me. J is not as eloquent as the others, but he seems to have reached the conclusions he has for basically the same set of reasons. He's a little less judicious in how he chooses to express himself and he's more prone to fully expressing his emotions, but he's in the same camp from what I can tell.

[elBooth]

I figured the natural reaction to my post would be "it's Dave's site" "don't read it" etc etc but that's not the point to me. I like readin the fanzine, i like reading the Match Reaction/Reports and i like gettin other peoples opinions. I was askin the guys opinion, i even said he can tell me to fuck off if he wants.

 

I got the feelin Dave was pissed off in his reply, maybe at me maybe at others i don't know, and i was suprised. My post was my opinion so i'm by no means tryin to say he can't have his i was basically pointin out i think his Reports/Reaction always has a heavy Benitez vibe, maybe too much recently.

 

I aint to sensitive mate, i wanted to form a discussion and it worked but because i don't agree with ya nobody should take the knock. If dave doesn't want me to write anythin negative against his side he can tell me straight up but i wouldn't understand that at all.

[drewy]

TBF mate they don't seem that far apart to me. J is not as eloquent as the others, but he seems to have reached the conclusions he has for basically the same set of reasons. He's a little less judicious in how he chooses to express himself and he's more prone to fully expressing his emotions, but he's in the same camp from what I can tell.

 

I don't agree mate, his bitch fit threads are totally different to either poster

(Brownie's drunken rant apart).

 

I'm as far apart from Dave and Brownie’s point of view as you can get but on the whole I think they're measured and to the point, J's are reactionary and seem ill advised at best.

[d.k.E.]

I call it as I see it, and frankly I'm way past the point of giving a fuck whether people agree or not. Someone like Paul Tomkins gets ridiculed for being too positive, whilst others get hammered for being negative. I don't think I'm at either end of the scale, although I'll readily admit I'm nearer the negative than positive end. I never used to be though, it's events that have defined my opinions.

 

"The last thing you want to read is another bitchfest'? Well what the fuck do you want me to write, that everything is great and we were really unlucky against Stoke and I agree with every decision Rafa made and I think he was right not to switch to 442 and try and win the game?

 

Sorry, but I'm not going to bullshit anyone just because I'm scared to upset a few people who will say I've got an 'anti-Rafa agenda'. Fuck that, I watch the match, I write what I think about it. There's too much shite thrown at people who write stuff that might be a bit negative. A pundit says something on sky that's a bit critical, and all hell breaks loose on the forums. It's ridiculous. People have opinions, not everyone's opinion is the same. Live with it.

 

I tell you what really fucking does my head in though. Anyone who dares criticise any decision made by Rafa is automatically accused of having an 'agenda'. I hate that fucking word, it's absolute bollocks. I've got no agenda, I just don't like some of the things I'm seeing. If I agree with something he's done, I'll say it (look through the reports, there's countless examples of it). If I don't agree, I say that too.

 

I'm not happy with a lot of things he's done, and is continuing to do. Am I supposed to ignore those things and just paint a pretty picture of how everything is fantastic? Sorry, if you want that then go and read the official magazine. I'll write what I feel, and I'm true to myself. If that upsets some people, then too bad.

 

As for me insulting him personally, how the hell have I done that? It was an analogy. He was full of bravado, basically telling the mancs to bring it on, and then he settled for a point at Stoke. Maybe it was a little colourful, but no way is it a 'personal insult', stop being so sensitive.

 

You want me to 'nail my colours to the mast'? My colours are red. I want us to win, and if we don't do that when I think we should be, then I can get a little bit pissed off. Other than that, there's nothing else to say. Do I think he will win us the title? I wrote halfway through last season that I don't think he can, because he fucks about too much and can be too negative. I still feel that way, although the patchy form of our rivals this season has given us a real shot at it. He is the reason we have a squad capable of challenging, but I also think he's the biggest reason we mightn't do it. Not saying I'm right, it's just how I feel.

 

I'm not in any 'anti-Benitez camp', and that kind of labelling is the biggest problem with this forum at the moment. You criticise a decision, it's because you want him out or you've got an agenda or other such bollocks. No, it's because you don't agree with a decision and you're voicing an opinion. I've got serious doubts about his ability to win the title, so what. I can't help how I feel and I won't apologise for it.

 

I see the shit Brownie gets on here, people accusing him of wanting Rafa out but not having the balls to say it. I can honestly say that in any of the many conversations I've had with Brownie, I've never once heard him say he wants rid of Rafa. He'll say "I wish he'd do this" or "I wish he'd stop doing that" etc, but so far he has never said "I want him out".

 

As for me, well if and when the day comes when I decide that I've had enough and want him to go, I'll let you know. I did it with Houllier, and I'll do it again if I come to that conclusion. I took loads of shit when I decided I thought it was time for GH to go. Someone on another forum called me 'the anti-GH poster boy' and another said they hoped I get run over. And for what? For calling it as I saw it. I'm not at that point with Rafa, but if I end up there no doubt it will be the same, I'll get loads of shit for it from people behind keyboards.

 

Regarding your view on the match reports and how they aren't mentioning the football, well there's a couple of reasons for that. Firstly, match reports from games I was at are different to the ones I'm not at. For a start, there's a clue in the title. 'Match Report' if I'm there, 'Match Reaction' if I'm not.

 

I can't point out things you may have missed at the game if I'm not there myself, can I? So for those games I'll just give an overall view on what I thought of it.

 

Also, I don't recall using the words you quoted about us being top and it having 'nothing to do with Benitez'. I remember saying I feel that we are top 'despite him and not because of him', which admittedly is similar, but it's not as extreme and I stand by it.

 

I believe he has cost us points through not being positive enough (several examples), but he has also won us points through his organisation and tactical approach to games such as Chelsea away amongst others. I also feel that in terms of the Champions League he has no equal, and I'd always back him to win any two legged tie against anybody. A 38 game league season is a different matter. My gut feeling is that given the group of players we have, we could be doing better and should have more points.

 

Am I right? There's no way of knowing, it's just an opinion.

 

This place does my fucking head in at the moment, and I hardly post on here anymore because of it. Anyone who criticises anything gets jumped on and accused of having an agenda, and every single thread ends up in a slanging match between the same people fighting over the same points.

 

There's no reasoned debate (well there is, but it's hard to find it amongst all the shite so I can't even be arsed looking anymore), it's all petty arguing, and I can't be arsed getting involved with any of it, especially on the match threads which I avoid like the plague these days.

 

Maybe I could have been more critical of the players after yesterday, but I'm not sure who people want me to be having a go at. I pointed out Mascherano was shite, and Yossi too, and that Lucas didn't play well either. I'm not having a go at Kuyt or Gerrard because I don't think they were helped by the way we were set up. So who does that leave? The back four were fine and Riera was neither good nor bad.

 

I maintain that our biggest problem was a system that played into Stoke's hands. It doesn't matter if people agree or not, it's just my opinion.

 

Edit: Great post by Faustus by the way.

 

Excellent and valid reply, well done lad. Couldn't agree more with your opinion or view of things really, and that was what drew me to this site in first place (I first came across it in the last months of the GH campaign and found your views accurate and telling). I think it is great the time and effort you invest in the magazine and forum, despite it probably not always being a labour of love, and hope you continue to keep it at the same excellent level.

[Kevin D]

Dave's anti-Rafa agenda sickens me.

[SpeedyG]

I don't agree mate, his bitch fit threads are totally different to either poster

(Brownie's drunken rant apart).

 

I'm as far apart from Dave and Brownie’s point of view as you can get but on the whole I think they're measured and to the point, J's are reactionary and seem ill advised at best.

 

I've shifted perspective. I get what you mean now.

[drewy]

I've shifted perspective. I get what you mean now.

 

We got off on the wrong footing, I like you, (In a a non Torres way).

 

You're wrong about average Lucas though.

[stringvest]

Dave's post says it all for me.

[Antynwa]

I call it as I see it, and frankly I'm way past the point of giving a fuck whether people agree or not. Someone like Paul Tomkins gets ridiculed for being too positive, whilst others get hammered for being negative. I don't think I'm at either end of the scale, although I'll readily admit I'm nearer the negative than positive end. I never used to be though, it's events that have defined my opinions.

 

"The last thing you want to read is another bitchfest'? Well what the fuck do you want me to write, that everything is great and we were really unlucky against Stoke and I agree with every decision Rafa made and I think he was right not to switch to 442 and try and win the game?

 

Sorry, but I'm not going to bullshit anyone just because I'm scared to upset a few people who will say I've got an 'anti-Rafa agenda'. Fuck that, I watch the match, I write what I think about it. There's too much shite thrown at people who write stuff that might be a bit negative. A pundit says something on sky that's a bit critical, and all hell breaks loose on the forums. It's ridiculous. People have opinions, not everyone's opinion is the same. Live with it.

 

I tell you what really fucking does my head in though. Anyone who dares criticise any decision made by Rafa is automatically accused of having an 'agenda'. I hate that fucking word, it's absolute bollocks. I've got no agenda, I just don't like some of the things I'm seeing. If I agree with something he's done, I'll say it (look through the reports, there's countless examples of it). If I don't agree, I say that too.

 

I'm not happy with a lot of things he's done, and is continuing to do. Am I supposed to ignore those things and just paint a pretty picture of how everything is fantastic? Sorry, if you want that then go and read the official magazine. I'll write what I feel, and I'm true to myself. If that upsets some people, then too bad.

 

As for me insulting him personally, how the hell have I done that? It was an analogy. He was full of bravado, basically telling the mancs to bring it on, and then he settled for a point at Stoke. Maybe it was a little colourful, but no way is it a 'personal insult', stop being so sensitive.

 

You want me to 'nail my colours to the mast'? My colours are red. I want us to win, and if we don't do that when I think we should be, then I can get a little bit pissed off. Other than that, there's nothing else to say. Do I think he will win us the title? I wrote halfway through last season that I don't think he can, because he fucks about too much and can be too negative. I still feel that way, although the patchy form of our rivals this season has given us a real shot at it. He is the reason we have a squad capable of challenging, but I also think he's the biggest reason we mightn't do it. Not saying I'm right, it's just how I feel.

 

I'm not in any 'anti-Benitez camp', and that kind of labelling is the biggest problem with this forum at the moment. You criticise a decision, it's because you want him out or you've got an agenda or other such bollocks. No, it's because you don't agree with a decision and you're voicing an opinion. I've got serious doubts about his ability to win the title, so what. I can't help how I feel and I won't apologise for it.

 

I see the shit Brownie gets on here, people accusing him of wanting Rafa out but not having the balls to say it. I can honestly say that in any of the many conversations I've had with Brownie, I've never once heard him say he wants rid of Rafa. He'll say "I wish he'd do this" or "I wish he'd stop doing that" etc, but so far he has never said "I want him out".

 

As for me, well if and when the day comes when I decide that I've had enough and want him to go, I'll let you know. I did it with Houllier, and I'll do it again if I come to that conclusion. I took loads of shit when I decided I thought it was time for GH to go. Someone on another forum called me 'the anti-GH poster boy' and another said they hoped I get run over. And for what? For calling it as I saw it. I'm not at that point with Rafa, but if I end up there no doubt it will be the same, I'll get loads of shit for it from people behind keyboards.

 

Regarding your view on the match reports and how they aren't mentioning the football, well there's a couple of reasons for that. Firstly, match reports from games I was at are different to the ones I'm not at. For a start, there's a clue in the title. 'Match Report' if I'm there, 'Match Reaction' if I'm not.

 

I can't point out things you may have missed at the game if I'm not there myself, can I? So for those games I'll just give an overall view on what I thought of it.

 

Also, I don't recall using the words you quoted about us being top and it having 'nothing to do with Benitez'. I remember saying I feel that we are top 'despite him and not because of him', which admittedly is similar, but it's not as extreme and I stand by it.

 

I believe he has cost us points through not being positive enough (several examples), but he has also won us points through his organisation and tactical approach to games such as Chelsea away amongst others. I also feel that in terms of the Champions League he has no equal, and I'd always back him to win any two legged tie against anybody. A 38 game league season is a different matter. My gut feeling is that given the group of players we have, we could be doing better and should have more points.

 

Am I right? There's no way of knowing, it's just an opinion.

 

This place does my fucking head in at the moment, and I hardly post on here anymore because of it. Anyone who criticises anything gets jumped on and accused of having an agenda, and every single thread ends up in a slanging match between the same people fighting over the same points.

 

There's no reasoned debate (well there is, but it's hard to find it amongst all the shite so I can't even be arsed looking anymore), it's all petty arguing, and I can't be arsed getting involved with any of it, especially on the match threads which I avoid like the plague these days.

 

Maybe I could have been more critical of the players after yesterday, but I'm not sure who people want me to be having a go at. I pointed out Mascherano was shite, and Yossi too, and that Lucas didn't play well either. I'm not having a go at Kuyt or Gerrard because I don't think they were helped by the way we were set up. So who does that leave? The back four were fine and Riera was neither good nor bad.

 

I maintain that our biggest problem was a system that played into Stoke's hands. It doesn't matter if people agree or not, it's just my opinion.

 

Edit: Great post by Faustus by the way.

 

Boy, if I was as articulate as that, I wouldn't have deleted my account on YAWN.

 

Well said Dave.

[Tom R]

Rafael Benitez is, at times, a negative shit house who just makes the same mistakes over and over and over again because he's also a fucking stubborn cunt who thinks he's always right. He isn't.

 

I'll say it if nobody else will.

 

Sort it out, Rafa!! If we don't win the league this year it's because Benitez has thrown it away for being such a fucking coward, and i'd sack his ass in a heart beat if that happens.

 

But, I also don't want him gone, if that makes sense. He has the tactical nous and the brain to be the greatest manager on earth of all time, and I mean that, if only he wasn't such a massive fucking shitbag sometimes.

[SpeedyG]

We got off on the wrong footing, I like you, (In a a non Torres way).

 

You're wrong about average Lucas though.

 

I wouldn't admit this usually, but you may well be right. I put his performances in context though. Others seem to only want to deal with absolutes and expect him to do things that someone at his stage of development just cannot do.

 

Que sera sera!

[JMARKH]

Don't you fucking dare try and hang onto the coat tails of certain posters. The shite you posted is a million miles away from what the likes of Dave or Brownie are currently posting.

 

Fuck off carrott cruncher you're a bit too thick to be taking the moral high ground.

[George Costanza]

The 'Benitez can do no wrong' people do my fucking head in. Most if not all i'm sure don't go to the majority of games.

 

I'd say most people on here a reasonable minded, yes they are more positive and negative posters than others but thats just life.

 

Hopefully more reasoned debate will return rather than petty slanging

[d.k.E.]

Rafael Benitez is, at times, a negative shit house who just makes the same mistakes over and over and over again because he's also a fucking stubborn cunt who thinks he's always right. He isn't.

 

I'll say it if nobody else will.

 

Sort it out, Rafa!! If we don't win the league this year it's because Benitez has thrown it away for being such a fucking coward, and i'd sack his ass in a heart beat if that happens.

 

But, I also don't want him gone, if that makes sense. He has the tactical nous and the brain to be the greatest manager on earth of all time, and I mean that, if only he wasn't such a massive fucking shitbag sometimes.

 

Also just as accurate, if not as articulate...

[drewy]

You're a bit thick.

 

Great, better that than totally thick.

 

Oh dear, you have dribble hanging from your chin again.

[bigal]

I can understand you get pissed off with the knocks you get Dave, your academy/reserves article certainly ruffled feathers. Your match reports are honest and, at the risk of being sycophantic, are the best reports I read anywhere. I suppose you put your neck on the block and you should expect some attempts to make you pay. But keep it up, there's a lot of us who do respect and support you.

I now officially enter the brown nose contest

[sir roger]

Anyone who uses the word 'togger' is ok with me.

 

I agree with Faustus' comments in this thread in the main.( I would place myself mildly in the pro-Rafa camp , but edging back towards the middle of the see-saw after last night ).

 

I don't go on any other Liverpool sites than this , so wonder how they are viewing our performances ? There does seem to be a disturbingly neurotic feel to a lot of posts lately ( from both sides of the divide )

[Kevin D]

Rafael Benitez is, at times, a negative shit house who just makes the same mistakes over and over and over again because he's also a fucking stubborn cunt who thinks he's always right. He isn't.

 

I'll say it if nobody else will.

 

Sort it out, Rafa!! If we don't win the league this year it's because Benitez has thrown it away for being such a fucking coward, and i'd sack his ass in a heart beat if that happens.

 

But, I also don't want him gone, if that makes sense. He has the tactical nous and the brain to be the greatest manager on earth of all time, and I mean that, if only he wasn't such a massive fucking shitbag sometimes.

 

A bit strong that. I think caution/cautious is a bit more apt than shithouse but in the main , I can't disagree with the salient point.

[drewy]

Fuck off carrott cruncher you're a bit too thick to be taking the moral high ground.

 

Well done dribble chin, you found the edit button.

 

A few points;

 

I'm a scouser.

I don't like carrots.

I live in a valley.

 

Toodle pip soft lad.

[Section_31]

Good thread, agree with Chris's point that there's no drama here, someone asked Dave to say what he feels about Rafa and he did in great detail.

 

I'm broadly in the same camp, love Rafa but wish he'd stop being so stubborn and prove he can adapt and learn from his mistakes.

 

If there's been a more enigmatic manager in recent time though I don't know who he is, Rafa gets the hard things right and the (comparatively) easy things wrong. Time will tell anyway.

[JMARKH]

TBF mate they don't seem that far apart to me. J is not as eloquent as the others, but he seems to have reached the conclusions he has for basically the same set of reasons. He's a little less judicious in how he chooses to express himself and he's more prone to fully expressing his emotions, but he's in the same camp from what I can tell.

 

You're correct no need to change your perspective as this post was right. That drewy needs other people to think for him and then he jumps on the bandwagon with a carrot in his hand.