What has changed at Liverpool

[Warwick Hunt]

A 'result' at Stamford Bridge will put the nail in the coffin of those who doubt our title credentials

 

this teams got class and importantly, balls

 

 

pepe, keane, torres, masch, dirk, carra, skrtel, gerrard <<< our top players have got the fight and the desire, 100% for the club.

 

no mercenaries

[Catch22]

Over the last 2 seasons Rafa has rotated no more or no less than the Mancs, who have won 2 PL & 1 CL.

 

The stats have been on this forum many times so we should not resort to tired Sky cliches

(Absurdly yesterday "Charlie" Nicholas was going on about AV suffering from playing the same 11 & players getting tired. Of course when we rest players to stop them getting tired that is also bad)

 

Had we lost yesterday (which looked likely for 45 + mins) the Sky angle would have been "Why did Rafa change formation? Why did he drop Robbie after his goal?"

 

Clearly 1 major positive is Riera for Kewell where we probably have also made a profit due to the drop in wages more than cancelling the transfer loss.

 

Keane has come in for Crouch.. Both are good players but are probably just below the highest level (which is not a major criticism: they are good players & good pros).

 

Still feel we were actually closer with the end of season 4-2-3-1 as it suited Torres,Masch & Gerr so perfectly.

It did require a CL class wide AM though & perhaps none were in our price/wage range.

 

In which case Rafa's flexibility in buying what was available (Keane & Riera) & taking 1 step back to hopefully go 2 forward should be acknowledged... No-one apart from possibly Quiroz is close to him in Europe in his mastery of different formations & approachs.

[Carra_is_legend]

Can't believe people are saying we were lucky!

 

If we had some luck, we would have scored a goal against Stoke, Torres would have had his hat trick against the shite, we would have a penalty yesterday, we would have had a penalty against PSV, Vidic would have been red carded after he brought Keane down.

 

Fucking referees.

[RedBrian84]

Luck has certaintly played a part- Carragher's wildly deflected effort against Boro, Robhino's glaring miss yesterday to name two incidents.

 

But there is also heart there, too. Heart, desire, bloody-mindedness, stubborness and a refusal to accept defeat have all played their part. When you add to that one of the strongest squads we've had in years, with some top, top players there and I think there are plenty of reasons. I also agree on the bringing back of Sammy Lee; that cannot be underestimated. His passion surely must transmit to all of the players in that dressing room.

[Catch22]

Our 3 worst performances last year came when Crouch started (0-1 at home vs Marseille, 1-3 away vs Reading, 1-2 home vs Barnsley).

 

Yet he started in our most important game of the season up to that point (2nd leg QF CL vs Arse).

 

If yoy are criticising Rafa for following his "horses for courses" not form approach (which worked though) then you can't also say he under-used the big man...

[RedBrian84]

Can't believe people are saying we were lucky!

 

If we had some luck, we would have scored a goal against Stoke, Torres would have had his hat trick against the shite, we would have a penalty yesterday, we would have had a penalty against PSV, Vidic would have been red carded after he brought Keane down.

 

Fucking referees.

 

I think that the luck has pretty much evened itself out so far, as I have pointed out in my above post. Yes, Gerrard's goal against Stoke was strangely disallowed, but then again- look at that horrendous Robhino miss yesterday and tell me we weren't lucky to not be 3-1 down?

 

And in two of the incidents you mention we went on to win the game anyway.

[Tom R]

I reckon we’ve had as much bad luck as good this season. Where it not for one or two diabolical decisions we’d be a few points clear at the top now, instead of second on goal difference.

[Carra_is_legend]

Luck has certaintly played a part- Carragher's wildly deflected effort against Boro, Robhino's glaring miss yesterday to name two incidents.

 

If he had put that one in and had we lost, I would be fucking fuming this morning. He was clearly offside.

[Carra_is_legend]

I reckon we’ve had as much bad luck as good this season. Where it not for one or two diabolical decisions we’d be a few points clear at the top now, instead of second on goal difference.

 

Correct.

 

Tom rules.

[Monkeywool]

A change in atmosphere in the team is there to be seen, I put it down to Sammy Lee to be honest. Under Rafa and Paco we were had a similar start to the season last year, only for Paco to go and then our form to drop suddenly. I didn't believe it was a coincidence then and I don't believe it was now.

 

Paco and now Sammy brought the team together and bonded them, whereas Rafa seems all about professionalism and apparently has the man management skills of a civil servant with a hangover. Add to this a couple of better players (a genuine wide option and a genuine foil for Torres) and we are in a much better shape than last year.

 

Granted I am not going to get carried away unless we have another 31 games like the past 7.

[Guest TK-421]

You can tell from Carra's body language that he thinks this is the best chance we've had of winning it since he started playing, and to a lesser extend Gerrard.

[Glen C]

Xabi Alonso - back to his best, ergo we're controlling games more. Even if we're a goal down, we have enough possession to create openings. Add Riera to that. Check out the opta stats (or whatever) and compare to previous seasons,- I'll wager a relatively large amount that we see much more of the ball this season

Pepe, Carra and Skrtel - great start to the season.

Gerrard and (esp) Torres finding their feet. Not turning this into a(nother) Gerrard-bashing thread, but do others find it mildly annoying (as I do) when our captain doesn't track back after others have misplaced their passes. Used to be my favourite moments seeing him chasing people down and tackling them (as he is probably the best in the world at it). I see the argument in conserving his energy (esp when playing in an advanced role) for attacking play, but still...

 

Anyway, great great start to the season so far, thoroughly enjoying it, and handing out plenty of abuse to my Manc friends today, as I got a few texts at halftime yesterday:-)

 

I think its more to do with rafa's instructions to be honest. Remember how he said that he felt gerrard did TOO MUCH running around the pitch. I think rafa has toned that down in him so that he's not running all over the place and leaving gaps like he used to.

[dave u]

I reckon we’ve had as much bad luck as good this season. Where it not for one or two diabolical decisions we’d be a few points clear at the top now, instead of second on goal difference.

 

We have. However, winning those games early on with late goals when we were playing shit has really given us a boost and now we seem to have more confidence as a result of it.

 

My argument isn't that we've been 'lucky' as such, just that it played a part in those early victories, and in the past we haven't always had that. On another day Liege would have buried that last minute sitter at the Kop end for instance. They didn't, and we scored and went through. That's what I'm getting at.

 

I also take exception to the 'make your own luck' argument. Like I say, we were shite against Boro but got lucky. We played well against Stoke, did noting wrong, had a perfectly good goal disallowed, yet still dropped two points. What more could we have done that day to 'make our own luck'?

 

Sometimes it's with you, sometimes it's against you.

 

There was nothing lucky about yesterday, we just forced that result through good play and desire.

[Red_Jim83]

Somebody posted that we've had as much bad luck as good this season, I'd totally agree witht this statement. What we've done well this season is grind out results when we were playing badly, Sunderland and Borro being perfect examples of this. These are the kind of results you must get to win a title, look at the scum during the 90's, the ammount of results like these they had was amazing. (quite a few came aginst us)

I'm not going to get carried away and start saying we're going to win the title, but I am a lot more optimistic than I have been in quite a few years, for a number of reasons.

 

1. I feel we now have a very strong squad of players, which is essential to win a title.

 

2. Alonso is back to his brilliant best, Reira looks an excellent signing and Keane is adding something new for us in the final 3rd.

 

3. Sammy Lee, it's great to see him back at the club, his passion for the club is infectious and I believe it can be seen in the way the team is playing at the moment.

 

4. Rafa, for me he is still one of the best managers in the world and we are lucky to have him.

 

So here's hoping that we can maintain this form throughout the season, because if we can we all may be smiling from ear to ear come may 2009.

[King Emlyn]

Doesn't it feel great to be debating on how everythings going so well? Long may it continue.

[Unrighteous]

I also take exception to the 'make your own luck' argument. Like I say, we were shite against Boro but got lucky. We played well against Stoke, did noting wrong, had a perfectly good goal disallowed, yet still dropped two points. What more could we have done that day to 'make our own luck'?

 

Sometimes it's with you, sometimes it's against you.

 

There was nothing lucky about yesterday, we just forced that result through good play and desire.

 

Make up your mind.

 

You basically said, we were unlucky against Stoke... but did the same thing against Man City whilst being down 2-0 and we didn't get any luck.

 

So, do results count on your luck or do they not?

 

My argument is that if you keep playing well and doing the right things you will get 'the luck'.

[cotter]

i think luck can plays it part in the odd game. what we're seeing now though are regular comebacks and defiance in the face of defeat. seems to me that's more to do with extra quality combined with greater belief than luck.

[Souness]

I don't care as long as we keep winning.

 

Very early days yet, mind. We've been up and down in terms of performance and have managed to grind the results out, which is a good sign.

 

Not sure Gerrard and Torres whopping one in from 30 yards to win the game constitutes luck, though.

[El Rojo]

Our mentality has changed. We've come back from deficits against Boro, United, Marseille and City where we would have capitulated before.

 

We don't panic, have better patience and keep creating chances. Riera is a point in case in recent games - he rarely loses the ball and usually produces a great attacking pass or creates space with a trick. Contrast and compare with Harry Kewell.

 

We finally look like Rafa's old Valencia machine and it feels absolutely great at the moment.

 

Still room for improvement, but a great position to be in going into the international break.

[aladdinsane]

A change in atmosphere in the team is there to be seen, I put it down to Sammy Lee to be honest. Under Rafa and Paco we were had a similar start to the season last year, only for Paco to go and then our form to drop suddenly. I didn't believe it was a coincidence then and I don't believe it was now.

 

Our results fucked up due to Rafa vs Hicks/Gillette at the time too I think. I hate to say it but wouldn't it be so typically them to throw a spanner in the works during the next few weeks?

[Monkeywool]

Our results fucked up due to Rafa vs Hicks/Gillette at the time too I think. I hate to say it but wouldn't it be so typically them to throw a spanner in the works during the next few weeks?

 

To be honest, I don't think it was. It didn't help much but the main drop of form was immediately after Paco left. We couldn't buy a win for ages after hammering some nobodies the week before Paco left. Then the cowboys threw their hat into the ring.

[Dirk]

I remember saying on here last season that as Rafa gets a squad he's happier with, he'd rotate less. He barely rotated Gerrard, Reina, Carragher, Torres, Mascherano. They are our best players and, to me, it indicated that a lot of the rotation was down to him not thinking certain players were good enough. The ones that were rotated in and out tended to be players on the periphery but I think we have a better squad now. He does rotate for other reasons and I think he will continue to but I don't think he will make as many changes.

[Dirk]

Another point, it seems that, for the first time since Rafa's been here that there's a reciprocal appreciation of players of the manager and manager of the players. We seem to have a unity to us that we haven't had before under Rafa. It appears that the players are believing in the manager and that the manager is believing in his players. He's not as cautious in his interviews when talking of the players' capabilities. An improvement in the areas of confidence/belief (individual and collective), ability and will to win is why I think we've improved. The players seem to understand what Rafa wants from them now and they are able to deliver it too.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Dirk

[JohnnyH]

I think everything has changed.

 

We seem to have much better balance with Riera a quality addition to our squad giving much needed width.

 

We seem to have got our sometimes never say die attitude and transferred it to every game.

 

It seems like the players are now in touch with the first time passing and the benefits it brings. We have done quite a few quick 4-5 pass movements up the pitch this season and torn defences apart with it.

 

Alonso’s return to form

 

A very different Rafa Benitez who seems to have much improved his man management with players getting praised in the press.

 

And luck – last season that ball yesterday would have bounced off Keanes ankle and gone to a City player. This season it drops to Kuyt.

 

I also think the addition of Sammy Lee is having a huge impact also.

[hamstrung]

I think Rafa found a can of whoopass over the summer and opened it right up.