Keir Starmer

[Numero Veinticinco]

5 minutes ago, ManéMan said:

You're just a confused mentally retarded idiot

And how have you come to this conclusion? 

5 minutes ago, ManéMan said:

Antisemitism...standing up for the forum racist. Fucking cunt. 

Except he's not a racist, is he. There's way too many people getting away with lies like this, then just insulting you when you ask for proof. It's fucking pathetic. 

[ManéMan]

11 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

And how have you come to this conclusion? 

Except he's not a racist, is he. There's way too many people getting away with lies like this, then just insulting you when you ask for proof. It's fucking pathetic. 

Almost all your comments lead me to this conclusion, and that last one above just confirms it.

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, ManéMan said:

Almost all your comments lead me to this conclusion, and that last one above just confirms it.

 

Ah, fair enough. You must be right then. 

[ManéMan]

14 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Ah, fair enough. You must be right then. 

Ha just read the last couple of pages of this thread...fucking hell you need help. Take some time off mate

 

Taking it up on yourself to to defend a rabid racist and then crying off about people throwing insults when it's you who is doing just that. One fucking bad hypocrite you are lad 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, ManéMan said:

Ha just read the last couple of pages of this thread...fucking hell you need help. Take some time off mate

 

Taking it up on yourself to to defend a rabid racist and then crying off about people throwing insults when it's you who is doing just that. One fucking bad hypocrite you are lad 

Any examples of his rabid racism? 

[ManéMan]

8 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Any examples of his rabid racism? 

Just concentrate on fixing yourself first, that's enough to keep you occupied.

No one asked you to be occupied with his problems, unless he's forced it on you in which I wouldn't be surprised. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 minutes ago, ManéMan said:

Just concentrate on fixing yourself first, that's enough to keep you occupied.

No one asked you to be occupied with his problems, unless he's forced it on you in which I wouldn't be surprised. 

Yeah, I didn't think so. 

[Duff Man]

Just kind of have to marvel at this faction of the party. Absolutely no discernible talent besides gossiping to the press and setting things on fire. And the best part is they'll 100% do it to the next guy, too. Incredible people.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/14/stop-calling-me-boring-keir-starmer-tells-shadow-cabinet

 

Quote

Stop calling me boring, Keir Starmer tells shadow cabinet

Labour leader urges colleagues to focus on returning to government, after a string of negative stories

Keir Starmer has urged his shadow cabinet to stop briefing the press that he is boring, warning them: “What’s boring is being in opposition.”

Stung by a series of negative stories about his leadership, Starmer angrily urged colleagues at Tuesday’s shadow cabinet meeting to focus on the job in hand, telling them it was “boring” to undermine Labour’s project of getting back into government.

Several of those around the table then echoed their leader’s calls for unity and discretion, in a lengthy exchange described by one shadow frontbencher as “ironically very boring”.

Starmer has been accused by senior colleagues in recent days of failing to articulate clearly what Labour stands for or to enthuse the public about his leadership.

An Opinium poll for the Observer on Sunday found that voters believe Boris Johnson still makes a better prime minister than Starmer would, by 28% to 26%, though Labour consistently leads the Tories when it comes to voting intention.

However, Starmer’s allies believe he has not been given sufficient credit for rebuilding his party’s reputation after 2019’s catastrophic general election result, or for undermining Johnson’s position.

They are hopeful of winning next week’s byelection in Wakefield and point to Labour’s solid performance in May’s local elections when the party made progress in many of the key seats it needs to win to secure a majority in Westminster.

Starmer’s approach is based on a detailed analysis of the voter groups Labour needs to win over in these seats, and which messages are likely to appeal to them.

Internal projections currently suggest 10% of 2019 Tory voters in these target areas have switched their allegiance to Labour, the Guardian understands.

The party scored a political hit with its policy of levying a windfall tax on the energy companies benefiting from surging global fossil fuel prices – a plan that was rubbished and then adopted by the government. But some MPs have raised concerns about whether the party has another headline-grabbing policy ready to replace it.

Starmer’s team are determined not to be rushed into producing a detailed shopping list of policies, however, when there may be more than two years to go before the next general election. Instead, Starmer is expected to give several speeches in the run-up to his party’s autumn conference, in which he will set out in broad terms how Labour will frame its election message.

With the cost of living crisis likely to feature heavily in any future campaign, the shadow chancellor, Rachel Reeves, published a document called “Labour’s plan for the economy” over the weekend. It included proposals for immediate support for families, as well as longer-term policies such as developing a hi-tech industrial strategy.

Starmer has promised to resign if Durham police find that he breached Covid rules by eating a curry and drinking beer with colleagues in the run-up to last May’s Hartlepool byelection. His team believe that is highly unlikely, but the pledge to go unleashed leadership jostling among potential future candidates for Starmer’s job.

A word cloud produced this week by the polling group JL Partners, based on responses from 1,000 voters, showed that “boring” was the adjective most frequently used of Starmer. Other prominent descriptions included “bland” and “weak”, but also “honest”.

An equivalent exercise for Boris Johnson showed the public’s most common description of him was “liar”, with “incompetent” and “buffoon” also featuring heavily.

[sir roger]

What faction are we talking about, DM ?

[Duff Man]

The Labour right, as they're commonly known. All they do is wreck, even when they've been given the top jobs. Just the most undisciplined, unprofessional shitheads imaginable.

 

Headline made me chuckle, tho, I have to admit.

[sir roger]

9 hours ago, Duff Man said:

The Labour right, as they're commonly known. All they do is wreck, even when they've been given the top jobs. Just the most undisciplined, unprofessional shitheads imaginable.

 

Headline made me chuckle, tho, I have to admit.

To be fair, they are very forceful in increasing living standards, only their own mind, but it's a start.

[House of Dirk]

It really is underwhelming where Labour are in the face of this dumpster fire of a government. Whilst appreciating the starting position of a 80 seat majority, a new leader and a pandemic are going to slow any progress down, the last thing you would expect is to go backwards when there has been almost a weekly scandal/infringement/law break or action that would ordinarily deem a resignation.

 

When Matt Hancock and Tractor Wanker have the integrity upper hand of resigning their posts when nobody else did, its a low bar.

 

Labours direction of travel, other than clearing out the left from their ranks, is unclear. I can almost forgive that no policies are written in stone yet on the basis we are at the half way point of this parliament against a Prime Minister determined to hold on to his position, and could drag out another year, but in the absence of cast iron policy, you need to be making it clear to the electorate what at least is on the table. Been very little of that. If this Durham incident throws another leadership and or deputy contest, that is something else to distract.

 

If Johnson goes by the autumn, we are more than likely facing a Spring 23 election. Whilst its impossible to call, I dont really trust the British electorate to not vote the Tory cunts in.

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, House of Dirk said:

It really is underwhelming where Labour are in the face of this dumpster fire of a government. Whilst appreciating the starting position of a 80 seat majority, a new leader and a pandemic are going to slow any progress down, the last thing you would expect is to go backwards when there has been almost a weekly scandal/infringement/law break or action that would ordinarily deem a resignation.

 

When Matt Hancock and Tractor Wanker have the integrity upper hand of resigning their posts when nobody else did, its a low bar.

 

Labours direction of travel, other than clearing out the left from their ranks, is unclear. I can almost forgive that no policies are written in stone yet on the basis we are at the half way point of this parliament against a Prime Minister determined to hold on to his position, and could drag out another year, but in the absence of cast iron policy, you need to be making it clear to the electorate what at least is on the table. Been very little of that. If this Durham incident throws another leadership and or deputy contest, that is something else to distract.

 

If Johnson goes by the autumn, we are more than likely facing a Spring 23 election. Whilst its impossible to call, I dont really trust the British electorate to not vote the Tory cunts in.

Definitely agree that Labour should be further ahead, though even if they were it’s too early for it to mean much. If they are going to come close to getting in power they need to peak exactly at the right time. There’s no good flying high in the polls mid-government, only for all their shit to be forgotten, change leader, then win another 80 seat majority. That doesn’t cover for their inability to do well now, but it’s the reality of what they need to achieve. 
 

I think we will start to see more concrete policies and ideas coming out beginning now. That’ll lead up to a proper policy base and manifesto closer to an election. 
 

What is clear (regarding the Durham outcome) is that Labour is devoid of somebody who is going to 1) please all of Labour 2) appeal to the electorate in a way that somebody like Blair did. No matter who would take over from Starmer, they’d be pulled apart by half the party. Starmer might yet skid into power, which I hope he does because he seems intelligent and principled, and has experience outside politics and government, but it’d be in a coalition. I’d be fine with that. However, If he steps down, you’ve then got the likes of Streeting, who is utterly despised by some because he hated Corbyn and his ‘don’t need to win to be a winner’ crew. Then you’ve got Reeves, who would make Streeting seem palatable. Then you’ve got, I don’t even know, from the left. My concern would be that if one of their first actions is to reinstate Corbyn it would be back to square one. Labour need some new blood. Badly. 

[Arniepie]

11 hours ago, Duff Man said:

Just kind of have to marvel at this faction of the party. Absolutely no discernible talent besides gossiping to the press and setting things on fire. And the best part is they'll 100% do it to the next guy, too. Incredible people.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/14/stop-calling-me-boring-keir-starmer-tells-shadow-cabinet

 

What I took from that is a big chunk of the British people would rather be governed by an inept lying buffoon than someone boring.

[Gnasher]

29 minutes ago, House of Dirk said:

It really is underwhelming where Labour are in the face of this dumpster fire of a government. Whilst appreciating the starting position of a 80 seat majority, a new leader and a pandemic are going to slow any progress down, the last thing you would expect is to go backwards when there has been almost a weekly scandal/infringement/law break or action that would ordinarily deem a resignation.

 

When Matt Hancock and Tractor Wanker have the integrity upper hand of resigning their posts when nobody else did, its a low bar.

 

Labours direction of travel, other than clearing out the left from their ranks, is unclear. I can almost forgive that no policies are written in stone yet on the basis we are at the half way point of this parliament against a Prime Minister determined to hold on to his position, and could drag out another year, but in the absence of cast iron policy, you need to be making it clear to the electorate what at least is on the table. Been very little of that. If this Durham incident throws another leadership and or deputy contest, that is something else to distract.

 

If Johnson goes by the autumn, we are more than likely facing a Spring 23 election. Whilst its impossible to call, I dont really trust the British electorate to not vote the Tory cunts in.

Spot on that.

[Gnasher]

If Labour had done better in the locals and had a substantial poll lead Johnson would have got voted out the other week by his own MPs because they'd fear for their seats. A big lead woukd also give the Labour party an important shot of confidence, instead of headlines like above, so it is important.

[Arniepie]

12 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Definitely agree that Labour should be further ahead, though even if they were it’s too early for it to mean much. If they are going to come close to getting in power they need to peak exactly at the right time. There’s no good flying high in the polls mid-government, only for all their shit to be forgotten, change leader, then win another 80 seat majority. That doesn’t cover for their inability to do well now, but it’s the reality of what they need to achieve. 
 

I think we will start to see more concrete policies and ideas coming out beginning now. That’ll lead up to a proper policy base and manifesto closer to an election. 
 

What is clear (regarding the Durham outcome) is that Labour is devoid of somebody who is going to 1) please all of Labour 2) appeal to the electorate in a way that somebody like Blair did. No matter who would take over from Starmer, they’d be pulled apart by half the party. Starmer might yet skid into power, which I hope he does because he seems intelligent and principled, and has experience outside politics and government, but it’d be in a coalition. I’d be fine with that. However, If he steps down, you’ve then got the likes of Streeting, who is utterly despised by some because he hated Corbyn and his ‘don’t need to win to be a winner’ crew. Then you’ve got Reeves, who would make Streeting seem palatable. Then you’ve got, I don’t even know, from the left. My concern would be that if one of their first actions is to reinstate Corbyn it would be back to square one. Labour need some new blood. Badly. 

I think Brexit in particular has splintered labours vote.

They need to find a leader who will please red wall types who's main concern is immigration, traditional socialist types and middle of the road swing voters.

No mean feat. 

[Jack the Sipper]

9 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

If Labour had done better in the locals and had a substantial poll lead Johnson would have got voted out the other week by his own MPs because they'd fear for their seats. A big lead woukd also give the Labour party an important shot of confidence, instead of headlines like above, so it is important.

 

Alternatively, if the confidence vote on Johnson took place three weeks after the two by-elections coming up, rather than before, and, assuming (as many are) that the Tories lost both, then he might have been voted out. From the POV of his own short-term survival prospects, the timing of the vote fell well for him. 

 

Important to distinguish, though, between Johnson's prospects and those of the Tory party.   

[Numero Veinticinco]

24 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

I think Brexit in particular has splintered labours vote.

They need to find a leader who will please red wall types who's main concern is immigration, traditional socialist types and middle of the road swing voters.

No mean feat. 

Yeah, I think the more central, social democratic (read: hard right) members within the party were already well ‘at it’ with the Corbyn leadership team over the way they handled Brexit, so I think the split was obvious already, I agreed with Corbyn’s stance on that at the time because I thought it was fairer to look at it again. I was wrong, with the benefit of hindsight, they should have done what Starmer had actually said at the time, which is accept it and get the fuck on with it. I didn’t accept it, it fucking sucked, and I don’t think it was fair, and I let that get in the way of my judgement; but sometimes in leadership you need to recognise you have to 1) accept a loss, 2) present a clear way forward for those you’re leading, 3) simplify the issue, which is the opposite of what Corbyn’s team did at the time, he listened a bit to everyone and tried to offer a fair way forward, which of course nobody was happy with because it gave nobody everything and everybody had to lose something. Mature compromise isn’t always the best long term solution. In short, it was a good ol’ fashioned, well intentioned fuck up. 
 

As for who they need to find, I agree. Although there’s probably even more groups they need to please. Anybody on the left will be received with plots and knives. It’s all a bit fucked. 

[Gnasher]

21 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

Alternatively, if the confidence vote on Johnson took place three weeks after the two by-elections coming up, rather than before, and, assuming (as many are) that the Tories lost both, then he might have been voted out. From the POV of his own short-term survival prospects, the timing of the vote fell well for him. 

 

Important to distinguish, though, between Johnson's prospects and those of the Tory party.   

Yeah fair enough.

[Numero Veinticinco]

44 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

What I took from that is a big chunk of the British people would rather be governed by an inept lying buffoon than someone boring.

I don’t even get that he’s particularly boring. He’s just a professional lawyer. Technical and not one for performance and popularity contests. Maybe it’s because I don’t want an all show and no trousers sort that I would be more than fine with him as PL but the reality is that if he can’t take the party to a win, then he’s as much use as Corbyn or Miliband. Which is to say… not, 

[Gnasher]

40 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

I think Brexit in particular has splintered labours vote.

They need to find a leader who will please red wall types who's main concern is immigration, traditional socialist types and middle of the road swing voters.

No mean feat. 

 

I don't think so, one good thing is you don't hear many Labour mps clamouring for a return. Corbyn was leader and instantly accepted the result and called on Theresa May to trigger the leaving article immediately. All parties know its done and dusted its only a major issue on twitter.

[Bjornebye]

He's just called Johnson "Jabba the Hutt" 

 

Hahahaha 

[Gnasher]

"The Conservative Corbyn"....Dear God he's setting his own traps.

[Arniepie]

21 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Yeah, I think the more central, social democratic (read: hard right) members within the party were already well ‘at it’ with the Corbyn leadership team over the way they handled Brexit, so I think the split was obvious already, I agreed with Corbyn’s stance on that at the time because I thought it was fairer to look at it again. I was wrong, with the benefit of hindsight, they should have done what Starmer had actually said at the time, which is accept it and get the fuck on with it. I didn’t accept it, it fucking sucked, and I don’t think it was fair, and I let that get in the way of my judgement; but sometimes in leadership you need to recognise you have to 1) accept a loss, 2) present a clear way forward for those you’re leading, 3) simplify the issue, which is the opposite of what Corbyn’s team did at the time, he listened a bit to everyone and tried to offer a fair way forward, which of course nobody was happy with because it gave nobody everything and everybody had to lose something. Mature compromise isn’t always the best long term solution. In short, it was a good ol’ fashioned, well intentioned fuck up. 
 

As for who they need to find, I agree. Although there’s probably even more groups they need to please. Anybody on the left will be received with plots and knives. It’s all a bit fucked. 

A split would seem the logical step but a left wing progressive stands absolutely no chance in this basket case of a country, and I think everyone knows that.