Alfie's Army

[lifetime fan]

Just hope the little guy goes quickly and peacefully.

 

And none of those pricks carry out any of the stupid threats they’ve been making.

[Fabio]

Just hope the little guy goes quickly and peacefully.

 

And none of those pricks carry out any of the stupid threats they’ve been making.

That's my worry.

 

Emotions and tensions will be high when he goes. Something could quite easily kick off

[Oh Buoy]

It's saddening.

 

I don't think anyone in here disagrees that it's a sad conclusion. Regardless of the context, the story of a parent losing their kid is heartbreaking.

 

However, including the context, it's been a horrible story from start to finish. It's reached the point where its a sigh of relief that its coming to the final stages. For Alfie's sake and nobody else's.

 

I hope he doesn't suffer and I hope the parents finally come to acceptance of what's happening. It's the start of a really difficult road. I wish them all the best.

 

Credit for AH and their staff for seeing this through despite the media and attention they have received. There are some brilliant people in that hospital and I hope they know how valued they are.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

On the bare face of it, it looks cruel not giving him oxygen as he slowly passes away.

 

But, while I'm no expert on palliative care, isn't that how it was always going to be? He wasn't going to pass the minute that the machines went off. It was going to be a gradual process. To give him manual oxygen is surely counter to turning the machines off in the first place and would just prolong the inevitable?

[Oh Buoy]

 

 

On the bare face of it, it looks cruel not giving him oxygen as he slowly passes away.

 

But, while I'm no expert on palliative care, isn't that how it was always going to be? He wasn't going to pass the minute that the machines went off. It was going to be a gradual process. To give him manual oxygen is surely counter to turning the machines off in the first place and would just prolong the inevitable?

They turn off the machines to begin the process - so yes, exactly as you've stated.

[Fabio]

On the bare face of it, it looks cruel not giving him oxygen as he slowly passes away.

But, while I'm no expert on palliative care, isn't that how it was always going to be? He wasn't going to pass the minute that the machines went off. It was going to be a gradual process. To give him manual oxygen is surely counter to turning the machines off in the first place and would just prolong the inevitable?

Pretty much

 

Ideally they've kept up with the midazolam, and that's helping keep him calm and stable.

 

It's just shit.

 

Shit that they couldn't diagnose anything. Shit that his family were so distraught that they couldn't accept the findings. It's shit that it got this far.

 

Ultimately there's a kid there who could be suffering. There's other families at alder hey who have got grief because of all this.

 

I know they needed to fight for him, but all is done is surely taint, or distract from their last few weeks with their son.

[Anubis]

Strange how all the Facebook/Twitter doctors who have been calling for his ventilation to be turned off to show he can breathe unaided, are now calling for him to be given oxygen to assist his breathing.

[stringvest]

Best term I've heard all day is "Grief Tourists". 

 

 

otherwise known as Everton TSOP

[Oh Buoy]

Lasted 9+ hours so far. AH given Alfie water and oxygen. 

 

Edit: 

 

It sounds like they've gone down the 'normal dying process' route first and with the prolonged time, they've then moved into oxygen therapy to help with dyspnea. 

 

"If an awake or conscious patient is dyspneic and hypoxic, then there is good literature to indicate that oxygen administration helps dyspnea."

 

"In the awake hypoxic patient near the end of life, encourage nasal prongs rather than a mask, so there is less of a barrier between the patient and the family. Opioids can help supplement the dyspnea-relieving effect of the oxygen, with the target being a balance of comfort and alertness that is acceptable to the patient. Don't monitor oxygen saturations to guide care, as the target is comfort rather than numbers. If oxygen is not available or is declined by the patient, then titrate the opioids to relieve dyspnea. As previously stated, for moderate to severe dyspnea at end of life, this usually means the patient will be sleeping."

 

"For awake non-hypoxic patients who are dyspneic, take a case-by-case approach. Sometimes a fan blowing cold air in the patient’s face will help. Sometimes adding opioids and titrating them to effect is helpful. Oxygen by nasal prongs can be very effective, and may prevent the need for opioids for a while. Consider all available options, depending on the context of the patient’s clinical status and the goals of care."

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

This isn't going to look good on Alder Hey's part.

 

I still think he'll pass. But, it's just taking longer than was expected. But, this will lead to claims that the life support should've been reinstated after a few hours as their initial prognosis was wrong. This will of course ignore the fact that he still couldn't maintain natural life for a sustained period, but the length in passing will be seized upon. Guaranteed.

 

If he doesn't pass away, that's obviously great news, but where does it go from there? Alder Hey's reputation will be severely damaged and you'd imagine that this'll end up back in the courts with the parents, with a degree of justification, wanting answers and his medical care to be provided elsewhere.

[Charles Penrose]

This isn't going to look good on Alder Hey's part.

 

I still think he'll pass. But, it's just taking longer than was expected. But, this will lead to claims that the life support should've been reinstated after a few hours as their initial prognosis was wrong. This will of course ignore the fact that he still couldn't maintain natural life for a sustained period, but the length in passing will be seized upon. Guaranteed.

 

If he doesn't pass away, that's obviously great news, but where does it go from there? Alder Hey's reputation will be severely damaged and you'd imagine that this'll end up back in the courts with the parents, with a degree of justification, wanting answers and his medical care to be provided elsewhere.

My mum was on life support on 2002 after being struck by a car as a pedestrian. She had brain damage that was beyond recovery and we made the decision as a family to turn it off. I was 19 at the time and ignorant of the fact they couldn’t just overdose her to make her slip away. I then expected the machine to go off and her to immediately die. She didn’t and lived for another 15 hours or so, her body working progressively harder. I still get freaked out by her heart rate which much have been in the hundreds of beats per minute by the end and even now I can’t bear to feel someone’s heart beating in their chest. It’s a harrowing experience to go through and I can’t imagine the magnitude of that with a child who you haven’t even accepted should be allowed to die.

 

The Dad has behaved like a complete cunt but at the root of it all is someone that rightly or wrongly (and it’s wrongly) believes his child is being killed.

[easytoslip]

My mum was on life support on 2002 after being struck by a car as a pedestrian. She had brain damage that was beyond recovery and we made the decision as a family to turn it off. I was 19 at the time and ignorant of the fact they couldn’t just overdose her to make her slip away. I then expected the machine to go off and her to immediately die. She didn’t and lived for another 15 hours or so, her body working progressively harder. I still get freaked out by her heart rate which much have been in the hundreds of beats per minute by the end and even now I can’t bear to feel someone’s heart beating in their chest. It’s a harrowing experience to go through and I can’t imagine the magnitude of that with a child who you haven’t even accepted should be allowed to die.

 

The Dad has behaved like a complete cunt but at the root of it all is someone that rightly or wrongly (and it’s wrongly) believes his child is being killed.

That's dreadful what you must of gone through as a young lad and sorry to hear that. These situations are unimaginable for anyone to go through that.

I agree with your comment on Alfies Dads behaviour, it's a sad reflection of society these days , though I can imagine it's hard to let go, surely you would want some privacy amid such grief as opposed to what we've witnessed with the baying mob of low lives behaviour.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

New High Court hearing listed for 3:30 today.

[Fabio]

New High Court hearing listed for 3:30 today.

I'd be very, very surprised if anything changes.

[Special K]

New High Court hearing listed for 3:30 today.

To what end?

 

This is getting painful now. Just let the poor kid pass with a bit of peace and dignity

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I'd be very, very surprised if anything changes.

Not sure.

 

I'm still backing the courts decision as I still don't see what Italy offers. But, whilst there's every chance he may still pass, his reaction to coming off the ventilator is arguably not what was expected, so no doubt the family's lawyers will be arguing that the concerns re: travelling to Italy have diminished and the issue requires fresh examination.

[Fabio]

Not sure.

 

I'm still backing the courts decision as I still don't see what Italy offers. But, whilst there's every chance he may still pass, his reaction to coming off the ventilator is arguably not what was expected, so no doubt the family's lawyers will be arguing that the concerns re: travelling to Italy have diminished and the issue requires fresh examination.

This it depends on the observations.

 

If his oxygen saturations are stable whilst on oxygen, then maybe. If they're slowly getting worse then it's a slower process than they thought, but still risky to move him (especially change in altitude/pressure)

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

This was unexpected and again will not end well for either party I fear.

[Fabio]

This was unexpected and again will not end well for either party I fear.

Nope.

 

It's gone proper Pete tong (unless he miraculously does recover, then yeah, sue the shit out of AH)

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Nope.

It's gone proper Pete tong (unless he miraculously does recover, then yeah, sue the shit out of AH)

We'll hear a lot more of this for years to come. Shit will fly and stuff will come out against both sides.

[Strontium]

At the end of the day, 80% of his brain has turned to mush. There's no coming back from that.

[Fabio]

At the end of the day, 80% of his brain has turned to mush. There's no coming back from that.

Could always work in politics?

[Spy Bee]

I've had to delete Facebook because morons are pissing me off so much with this shit!

 

"Parent always know best"

 

I'm sorry, but that argument didn't work for Josef Fritzl and it won't work for you!

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

A decent Twitter thread from a medical professional outlining that, despite what's happened recently, he's still an extremely ill child.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/juniordrblog/status/988759669803048960

[Aventus]

At the end of the day, 80% of his brain has turned to mush. There's no coming back from that.

Worked out alright for this chap