Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[dennis tooth]

Don't mistake cleverness with brazenness. An angsty 16 year old with a brief reading of Marx can proclaim the need to renationalise, repatriate, increasingly open borders, and promise the moon on his way to doing so. Corbyn has neither the pedigree, nor the minds to make his fiction a reality: and history proves the British people will not give him his chance.

 

 

• Thats odd as May presided over our most open borders ever as home sec.
• odd that his apparent rival is trying to copy his policies if theyre not popular and indeed the tories trying to head him off.

if you really think his policies are unpopular then you are mentally ill.

 

Its only fiction because it hasnt happend yet. History doesnt prove the future no matter what mental fantasy you can draw up it means nothing.

[dennis tooth]

Add up the years and read my statement again.

Lets add up the years homosexuality was illegal versus how long its been legal and draw huge inferences from it.

 

Society changes. Get over it.

[Hades]

Lets add up the years homosexuality was illegal versus how long its been legal and draw huge inferences from it.

 

Society changes. Get over it.

 

Spot on. No wonder he was repped by that unimaginative cunt Sugar Ape and his just-world fallacy mates. 

[dennis tooth]

Spot on. No wonder he was repped by that unimaginative cunt Sugar Ape and his just-world fallacy mates. 

He is one desperate hombre, I dont mind him, if it wasnt for these types we wouldnt have anyones argument to dismantle since most of us and indeed the nation broadly enough agree on the same things and the harder the corbyn detractors throw turdy narratives. People can see whats going on since the internet and the democracy of ideas means these are somewhat like the quakers in rejecting reality.

[Boss]

Don't mistake cleverness with brazenness. An angsty 16 year old with a brief reading of Marx can proclaim the need to renationalise, repatriate, increasingly open borders, and promise the moon on his way to doing so. Corbyn has neither the pedigree, nor the minds to make his fiction a reality: and history proves the British people will not give him his chance.

 

Can you fathom a scenario where an industry needs to be renationalised for whatever reason? ie it's failing economically, it's not fulfilling it's objectives or the cost of the product / service is increasing to the point where it's getting out of control?

 

This idea that nationalisation is some Che Guevara thing and the British public won't stand for it has been pulled firmly from your arse.

[dennis tooth]

They'll never abolish the slavery trade to cotton plantations it's been goin on for two hundred years now."

Alex_k 12.01.1787 ad

[dennis tooth]

"Go back to law studies nelson mandela you'll never get anywhere."

Alex k circa 1978

[Jairzinho]

Can you fathom a scenario where an industry needs to be renationalised for whatever reason? ie it's failing economically, it's not fulfilling it's objectives or the cost of the product / service is increasing to the point where it's getting out of control?

 

This idea that nationalisation is some Che Guevara thing and the British public won't stand for it has been pulled firmly from your arse.

 

Two thirds of the population want rail and energy to be in public hands. Even a small majority of Tory voters want both in public hands. 

[dennis tooth]

We dont want to inflict violence in our enemies people I don't even want to inflict bad words in them. No we are different out revolution will be different, we just want to take their power and dissolve it to us all.

There is weakness in structure and naivity of permanence. It must all vapourise to our democracy.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

As much as we would like to think of Tory voters as Polo going, Eton educated, forelock tugging upper classes, they're generally not. I fucking hate tories, but a lot of people who vote Tory just aren't like that. They're not hateful pricks, I think if the left are ever serious about getting back into power - and I'm not convinced a lot of us actually are - then we need to start thinking about getting some of those people to vote for somebody else, as many millions have done in the past.

Another Angry Voice made a good point. At the Tories' lowest electoral ebb they got 19% of the popular vote. They won the last Election with 24%. So, we're looking at 5% of the population who are convertible from the Tories (with no guarantee that they would go to Labour, instead of UKIP or the Lib Dems).

 

34% didn't vote. Labour should chase them instead of Tory voters.

[xerxes]

A few more MPs will drift back and "unresign", and the chief cunts will try to find a new way of pissing off the membership.

I hope not.

 

Corbyn needs to deliver and energise policy as Nicola Sturgeon has done with the SNP. She has also shown how scrapping Trident need not be an electoral disadvantage.

 

There is a laziness amongst Corbyn's cabal that being elected (again) is enough. It is not.

 

Crucially, Corbyn will need to remodel his inner circle to include key PLP dissidents, and map a way forwards.That is politics. Wilson, Callaghan, Major and Cameron did not just stamp their feet shouting " But I am leader, you have to do what I say". They found a way to get what they wanted done. That is never easy. He needs to find a chief of staff who can do the administrative bits for him, get the cabinet pulling their weight, and free him to do what he is good at, fronting up policy.

[Jairzinho]

I hope not.

 

Corbyn needs to deliver and energise policy as Nicola Sturgeon has done with the SNP. She has also shown how scrapping Trident need not be an electoral disadvantage.

 

There is a laziness amongst Corbyn's cabal that being elected (again) is enough. It is not.

 

Crucially, Corbyn will need to remodel his inner circle to include key PLP dissidents, and map a way forwards.That is politics. Wilson, Callaghan, Major and Cameron did not just stamp their feet shouting " But I am leader, you have to do what I say". They found a way to get what they wanted done. That is never easy. He needs to find a chief of staff who can do the administrative bits for him, get the cabinet pulling their weight, and free him to do what he is good at, fronting up policy.

 

I just don't understand how you can even compare those situations. None of Wilson, Callaghan, Major or Cameron inherited parties completely at odds with what they are meant to represent, and obviously none of them were then faced with the task of readdressing that. Comparing the situation with that facing Nicola Sturgeon is even less relevant. 

 

Corbyn began by modelling his inner circle to include a broad church from the PLP. He was rewarded by them briefing against him, resigning, and then getting involved in a coup. 

 

You can make many valid criticisms of Corbyn, and you have, but pretending that he hasn't delivered exclusively because of the skills that he lacks is a complete nonsense, and you know it's a complete nonsense.

[dennis tooth]

Lets face it as the elites have the next election will be between may and corbyn. Labour wont leak votes to the libs or ukips both parties are a mess anyway and brexit means both are no longer viable whilst the greens will lose votes to corbyn led labour.

Ukippers will split back to tory/labour.

The left, the common man the non voters who are overwhelmingly leftist, the youth vote, even much of the shrinking middle class will plump for corbyn.

Even his worst detractors on here wouldn't vote may over corbyn.

I havnt even gone to the crystal ball in terms of what policies of pain and lots of confusion and u turns the Tories face up until the next Ge.

So thats why he will win by a good margin.

[Denny Crane]

Another Angry Voice made a good point. At the Tories' lowest electoral ebb they got 19% of the popular vote. They won the last Election with 24%. So, we're looking at 5% of the population who are convertible from the Tories (with no guarantee that they would go to Labour, instead of UKIP or the Lib Dems).

34% didn't vote. Labour should chase them instead of Tory voters.

When you consider the 5 points Labour can get from increasing the 18-34 vote to the national average. Then get some of the voters they lost under the Blair regime see below. The Tory vote Labour is said to need is exaggerated.

 

Can't get the table to format but in the link.

 

Labours missing millions.

 

May 13 2015.

 

This is a defining moment for the future, and arguably the survival, of the Labour Party. In the coming months there will be much debate about what went wrong and where next.

 

In 2005 I produced evidence that Labour had lost 4 million voters since the election in 1997. A substantial part of these missing millions were traditional working class voters. This pattern has continued over the last 10 years.

 

In a minor tidal wave of what looks like pre planned statements, a group of commentators have argued that what lost the election was a failure to tap into the hopes of “aspirational” voters.

 

However, there is not a shred of evidence for their argument. The explanations for our defeat are deeper than this simplistic assessment.

 

The truth is that Labour recovered amongst middle class voters but has suffered a cataclysmic decline among working class voters.

 

It is possible to scrutinise now the initial voting analysis provided to me by the House of Commons Library.

 

If we compare the election results for our last election victory in 2005 with the result last Thursday and analyse by social class, a very interesting pattern emerges.

 

Here are the figures.

 

 

 

2005

 

2010

 

2015

 

AB

 

28

 

26

 

27

 

C1

 

32

 

28

 

30

 

C2

 

40

 

29

 

30

 

DE

 

48

 

40

 

37

 

It is possible here to see that the proportions of AB and C1 voters who voted Labour in the last three elections has held steady. Indeed Ed Miliband’s leadership led to a mild recovery of these voters between 2010 and 2015, (as it did among the C2 group.)

 

A full analysis of what happened last Thursday is not yet possible but at least one opinion poll has shown that ‘the election result implied by polling would give the Tories 12.5 m votes and Labour 12.2 million. However, in the event the Tories secured 11.3 million votes and Labour 9.3 million.’ There were almost 3 million Labour identifiers that we failed to mobilise.

 

Labour’s electoral base last Thursday was by far the most middle class we have secured in our history. A strategy based on a misunderstanding of what is happening in our country will not work. We cannot expect to win an election without reaching out to other layers of the population and equally mobilising those Labour identifiers who didn’t bother to vote.

 

In the coming leadership election, candidates need therefore first of all honestly to demonstrate that they can develop a three-fold strategy in England (Scotland is a very special case):

 

A) Hold on to and indeed increase our middle class vote

 

B Reach out to working class voters, and

 

C) Mobilise Labour identifiers who did not vote Labour.

 

I will shortly publish further reflections on what we do next. However, the party should not elect a Leader who cannot concretely demonstrate that they can deliver b, above, since they are the largest group of the electorate whose support we have lost.

 

Those in the PLP with leadership aspirations cannot remain in denial or ignorance of these facts. They do so at their own peril, but more fundamentally fail to understand why the Labour Party exists

 

 

http://www.jontrickett.org.uk/labour_s_missing_millions_part_2

[Guest Alex_K]

A stream of broken english bordering on pidgin, expletives and references to 4 year olds running the country & the world being round. The measure of Corbyn's believers.

 

Speaking of which, the incessent braying and squealing from the audience during the Corbyn/Smith leadership debate was disgusting.

 

For those campaigning for Corbyn with their keyboards, enjoy being resigned to a protest party should he regain leadership, and many more years of Tory government ahead. The sharpest thing May could do is to attempt to call an early election as soon as Corbyn took leadership.

[Yozzer]

Just had an email a minute ago informing me of where my local Labour meeting will be taking place. It was also informing me that I wouldn't actually be eligible to attend.

 

Like Neil said, I reckon if you contact them you'd be allowed in. Historically CLP meetings have been a mess with little member engagement, the last thing they should be doing is turning away new members who have become engaged in the party.

 

If you do go, I'd be interested to see your opinion on them. Friends of mine who have attended have said they've always been mind numbingly boring, bogged down by inconsequential topics rather than discussing party policy for local and national issues. 

[Jairzinho]

Like Neil said, I reckon if you contact them you'd be allowed in. Historically CLP meetings have been a mess with little member engagement, the last thing they should be doing is turning away new members who have become engaged in the party.

 

If you do go, I'd be interested to see your opinion on them. Friends of mine who have attended have said they've always been mind numbingly boring, bogged down by inconsequential topics rather than discussing party policy for local and national issues. 

 

Hope so, mate. 

 

This one won't be boring, I'm planning on bullying everyone there.

[Yozzer]

Hope so, mate. 

 

This one won't be boring, I'm planning on bullying everyone there.

 

If that fails, a dirty protest against Ben Bradshaw wouldn't go amiss.

[Jairzinho]

If that fails, a dirty protest against Ben Bradshaw wouldn't go amiss.

 

Different constituency sadly (although, ironically, actually closer to where I live). 

 

A dirty protest is a fucking great idea.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Alwx_K is Hermes.

 

What do I win.

[Gnasher]

It takes an etonion mind to cobble together a tax on heated pasties and still have the bbc laud you as some sort of financial genius.

 

Take a bow George Osborne you thick cunt.

[dennis tooth]

A stream of broken english bordering on pidgin, expletives and references to 4 year olds running the country & the world being round. The measure of Corbyn's believers.

 

Speaking of which, the incessent braying and squealing from the audience during the Corbyn/Smith leadership debate was disgusting.

 

For those campaigning for Corbyn with their keyboards, enjoy being resigned to a protest party should he regain leadership, and many more years of Tory government ahead. The sharpest thing May could do is to attempt to call an early election as soon as Corbyn took leadership.

 

Alex K, reputation -1.

 

Despite Suga rapes efforts he could not save you.

 

You know whats disgusting, war mongering MPs who voted to bomb Libya and get rid of Gaddffi, in preference for ISIS.

People who abstain on welfare bills and divide the labor party thinking theyre more important than the mass who voted for Corbyn to be leader and its more important to get rid of the Corbyn than fight the Tories.

It seems some people want to live in a world where people who make war and neglect the poor are in charge? Maybe your kids dont want that.

[Gym Beglin]

Add up the years and read my statement again.

I don't dispute the years, but 4 GE wins is 4 GE wins, regardless.

 

Years in office doesn't tell the picture, some GE wins were close, others weren't, and often the same problems occurred again and again.  Labour support the NHS and services for all, and Tories accuse Labour of being shit with money, and Tories unable to work with the Unions and so shit on them.

[Gym Beglin]

A stream of broken english bordering on pidgin, expletives and references to 4 year olds running the country & the world being round. The measure of Corbyn's believers.

 

Speaking of which, the incessent braying and squealing from the audience during the Corbyn/Smith leadership debate was disgusting.

 

For those campaigning for Corbyn with their keyboards, enjoy being resigned to a protest party should he regain leadership, and many more years of Tory government ahead. The sharpest thing May could do is to attempt to call an early election as soon as Corbyn took leadership.

 

 

And for those backing the PLP, you can expect the same Tory aspirations regardless of GE results, forever.

[Boss]

For those campaigning for Corbyn with their keyboards, enjoy being resigned to a protest party should he regain leadership, and many more years of Tory government ahead. The sharpest thing May could do is to attempt to call an early election as soon as Corbyn took leadership.

 

We will, thank you. Enjoy your failed coup and all your favourite closet tories being deselected and failing miserably in 2020, under the guise of a new party.