Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[SasaS]

I never mentioned anything mate! 

 

I disagree with the last paragraph. At this point in the charade - there is a Tory government and therefore they are leading negotiations, Corbyn doesn't really have to say too much, the long game is a Labour government and putting all your cards on the table now is not the best way forward. As with Farage et al. arguing they are anti-establishment is the fact that on continental Europe the right/centre-right is gaining traction in most governments - and that is something that Corbyn will be naturally weary of. His scepticism is valid - and  hewill be viewing the single market as nothing more than a capitalist gang led by governments he is in opposition to - he will want human right and employment rights at the centre of any agreement. 

 

One last point. We are told that the Leave vote was a complicated vote, with a variety of different reasons and motivations for doing so - if that is the case then why are we only hearing one voice and why is one voice the one with the most influence? Reese-Mogg, Banks, Dyson want a tax haven - the economic forecast is irrelevant to that. We may very well enjoy an economic renaissance post-Eu, but they don't actually care about that. That isn't their goal - their goal is a low tax, small government Singapore style country. And the danger is that they are ignoring democratic processes to do it. 

 

You really don't like Singapore, do you?

[magicrat]

I'm not so sure, the Brexiteer's in the Tory party effectively have large enough numbers to control May's direction, all they need to do is to prevent her from compromising and they end up with the cliff edge they desire. Even if May calls their bluff she'll be replaced by a much more anti-EU leader. At best parliament may end up voting on a choice between a transition to a Canada style arrangement or no deal. We still depart even if parliament can't back a deal, it isn't conditional on parliament.

 

I agree that the government will unravel at some point and there will be a general election but I suspect it won't be until after Brexit occurs or so close to it that it won't make any difference. We're only 12 months away and realistically an agreement to a transition needs to be ready for October.

 

If its going over a cliff there will be an election before it happens probably preceded by Tory leadership bloodbath. 

[Jockey]

You really don't like Singapore, do you?

 

Not really. America, but smaller. 

 

https://thehearttruths.com/2014/11/05/this-is-what-is-wrong-in-singapore-now-are-you-willing-to-see-it/

[Jockey]

If its going over a cliff there will be an election before it happens probably preceded by Tory leadership bloodbath. 

 

That is how I see it. They know they will not win an election - so they won't call one, but there will be a bloodbath first, and carnage second. And they will hopefully be unelectable for a long time as a consequence. 

 

Those Mogg's are a small, bunch of cunts who are currently holding the government to ransom. Eventually they will push too much, too far and then we are off. I suspect it may start after her speech today - which was pretty much, anti-hard brexit. 

[magicrat]

That is how I see it. They know they will not win an election - so they won't call one, but there will be a bloodbath first, and carnage second. And they will hopefully be unelectable for a long time as a consequence. 

 

Those Mogg's are a small, bunch of cunts who are currently holding the government to ransom. Eventually they will push too much, too far and then we are off. I suspect it may start after her speech today - which was pretty much, anti-hard brexit. 

 

She can face Mogg down if she has too but it would mean enlisting Labour support,  She may have to but until she can no longer kick the can down the road any further that won't happen, That was all today's speech was about. 

[Anubis]

Ian Dunt's running commentary on May's speech today is quite funny.

 

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/969568655007731712?s=19

[Jairzinho]

"Basically we're all going to get quite badly twatted."

[skend04]

She pulled a thesaurus off the bookshelf and looked up alternative words for cake and eat it.

 

If people can leave the country I'd seriously be considering it. We're fucked.

[cloggypop]

How do you come to that conclusion? Labour whipped its MPs to vote to trigger Article 50 and then ran a general election campaign on a pledge to go through with Brexit, and that commitment hasn’t changed since then.

I hated that myself. Impossible position though. Seats in favour of Brexit yet percentage of voters against it. No chance of beating the vote. The actual position and content when you look at it though, from the 7 out of 10, to the six red lines, to the last Corbyn speech is essentially remain and reform.

[cloggypop]

She pulled a thesaurus off the bookshelf and looked up alternative words for cake and eat it.

 

If people can leave the country I'd seriously be considering it. We're fucked.

Fuck off. We're full.

[lifetime fan]

Fuck off. We're full.

 

How the fuck did you get a job in Holland if you needed a thesaurus for that?

[cloggypop]

How the fuck did you get a job in Holland if you needed a thesaurus for that?

Mierenneuker!

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Bastard EU, trying to broaden young people's minds by giving them free travel.

http://www.euronews.com/2018/03/02/young-europeans-to-get-free-interrail-pass-this-summer

 

As every Kipper knows, we like to keep our British minds narrow.

[Jockey]

I'm pro-European, or more to the point - not Little England. But, Europe does seem to be becomming more nationalist - it isn't the Liberal utopia that some remainers suggest it is. If we do remain Corbyn could very well find himself a lonely left leaning PM.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I'm pro-European, or more to the point - not Little England. But, Europe does seem to be becomming more nationalist - it isn't the Liberal utopia that some remainers suggest it is. If we do remain Corbyn could very well find himself a lonely left leaning PM.

All the more reason to stay in, in my opinion.

 

Every country in the EU is going through a period of political upheaval. People generally have had a belly full of the established political class and the neoliberal orthodoxy. That's why voting patterns are becoming more polarised, left and right. The EU has always been a bulwark against divisive nationalism, which is why the full spectrum of right-wingers - from dolts like John Redwood to the Nazi murderers of Golden Dawn - can't stand it. If a Corbyn-led UK were to remain in the EU, it would provide hope, political & moral support and inspiration for left-wingers in all the Member States.

[Anny Road]

I'm pro-European, or more to the point - not Little England. But, Europe does seem to be becomming more nationalist - it isn't the Liberal utopia that some remainers suggest it is. If we do remain Corbyn could very well find himself a lonely left leaning PM.

I’m pro European too mate. Love the place, the people, the culture, the diversity and the opportunities it presents. All this is still there and I don’t see why we or anyone should be less of a part of it because we do not wish to be part of a political jurisdiction.

If Italy, France or whoever wants to lurch to the right to the left politically it’s up to them. Lash at it.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I’m pro European too mate. Love the place, the people, the culture, the diversity and the opportunities it presents. All this is still there and I don’t see why we or anyone should be less of a part of it because we do not wish to be part of a political jurisdiction.

If Italy, France or whoever wants to lurch to the right to the left politically it’s up to them. Lash at it.

Two things.

51.9% of the electorate voted to be less a part of it, when they chose to renounce our rights as EU citizens.

 

Also, if other countries lurch towards Fascism, we can't just sail on in blissful isolation. Culturally and economically, Europe is much more interconnected than it was in the 1930s - and even then, the naive hope that affairs in other countries wouldn't affect us didn’t work out terribly well.

[Strontium]

Two things.

51.9% of the electorate voted to be less a part of it, when they chose to renounce our rights as EU citizens.

The fact that a slight majority could vote to strip rights away from a large minority in the first place is a major reason why I didn't consider the referendum valid in the first place.

[Anny Road]

This is where I think we agree. Most of the effects of Brexit were never even on the agenda. Most of the nobheads who voted leave will be the first complaining in the mail when its effects hit them.

I voted on the question should we stay or leave the EU. Not on customs , free movement etc etc.

Hard/no deal Brexit will be bad bad news. I also think remaining in an unreformed federal Europe will be bad bad news.

 

We need a leader with some balls. Let Boris et al fuck off and form their own movement.

[Jockey]

I'm not suggesting the lurch to the right in Europe should mean we cut ourselves off. I was merely pointing out the current narrative that Europe is great, liberal and all encompassing yet the UK (England) is inward looking and nationalist. The facts don't back this argument up.

 

We should absolutely be at the forefront in Europe, in or out of the EU. As it stands there is a valid argument that yhe UK is more left leaning than continental Europe.

[mattyq]

I'm pro-European, or more to the point - not Little England. But, Europe does seem to be becomming more nationalist - it isn't the Liberal utopia that some remainers suggest it is. If we do remain Corbyn could very well find himself a lonely left leaning PM.

How can Europe become more nationalised when it's not a nation...maybe continentalised

Wish it was a nation - I'd take up citizenship in a second if i could

[Jockey]

How can Europe become more nationalised when it's not a nation...maybe continentalised

Wish it was a nation - I'd take up citizenship in a second if i could

Erm...

[Pureblood]

I voted on the question should we stay or leave the EU. Not on customs , free movement etc etc.

 

The EU made it clear that the four freedoms, including freedom of movement, would be non-negotiable in the event of the UK leaving the EU.

 

Therefore you should have been better informed, because this was known to be the case prior to the referendum.  

 

Very selfish not to have informed yourself prior to the vote.

[skend04]

The fact that a slight majority could vote to strip rights away from a large minority in the first place is a major reason why I didn't consider the referendum valid in the first place.

More galling is the fact that a large majority who voted out were retirees who will be protected by both political parties whilst the rest of us can go whistle. It's scandalous.

[Anny Road]

I am pretty well informed mate. Everything was on the table and up for negotiation.

I have no doubt that had we agreed to maintain free movement pay our subs the customs union and single market would have been available to us.

Different titles may have applied to these agreements but they would in effect have maintained the status quo.

 

You keep your head up your arse ignoring all the negative consequences of continued and future membership if you wish my eyes are open to all consequences positive and negative.