The FA publish written reasons for Suarez's ban

[Dan Vito Corleone]

It's 115 pages of waffle.

 

But the big concern I have here is that Suarez admitted using the word, once. I believe him when he says he didn't mean it in a racist way and links back to Uruguay. For me this puts the club in a very, very difficult position with regards to backing Suarez as the name of the club might get dragged into the whole debate.

 

The absolute vast majority of the statement is absolutely disgusting, but I fear this will now become the FA vs. Suarez and his lawyers as opposed to the FA vs. Liverpool and Suarez.

[Guest San Don]

I hate Mick Dennis more than any other journalist apart from Jeff Powell and the dead Wooldridge.

 

Is this the mick dennis who played for southampton and was a wife beater?

[James21]

Mick Dennis is bellend. If he said that shit then its a fucking disgrace. Seriously, there is no fucking evidence yet they crucify Suarez. Someone needs to fucking stand up to this shit

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

As a black Liverpool fan for 25 years I am truly saddened by Liverpool`s and the majority of our fans stance on this. Liverpool and our fans NEED to look at the bigger picture and not back Suarez blindly. Would we be as defensive as this if it had been Christian Poulsen for example? Not a chance. Suarez is afterall our star player. I feel I have lost all support for Liverpool now.

 

I'm not backing Suarez blindly. I want proof before calling people racist. That's all. If that's something you find shameful or saddening, then I'm sorry but you're the one who is out of order on this.

[James21]

As a black Liverpool fan for 25 years I am truly saddened by Liverpool`s and the majority of our fans stance on this. Liverpool and our fans NEED to look at the bigger picture and not back Suarez blindly. Would we be as defensive as this if it had been Christian Poulsen for example? Not a chance. Suarez is afterall our star player. I feel I have lost all support for Liverpool now.

 

Fuck off then. We dont need supporters like you who back Utd despite there being no fucking evidence

[Liverpoolway]

As a black Liverpool fan for 25 years I am truly saddened by Liverpool`s and the majority of our fans stance on this. Liverpool and our fans NEED to look at the bigger picture and not back Suarez blindly. Would we be as defensive as this if it had been Christian Poulsen for example? Not a chance. Suarez is afterall our star player. I feel I have lost all support for Liverpool now.

 

So, as a black Liverpool fan, you think it is right that Suarez can be convicted without a shred of evidence. Because "the bigger picture" is that racism is so serious that when someone are accused of racism - whether it is true or not - they should not get any support. There are no proof against Suarez, and therefore Liverpool supporters should support him. Why don't you give him the benefit of the doubt?

[skend04]

As a black Liverpool fan for 25 years I am truly saddened by Liverpool`s and the majority of our fans stance on this. Liverpool and our fans NEED to look at the bigger picture and not back Suarez blindly. Would we be as defensive as this if it had been Christian Poulsen for example? Not a chance. Suarez is afterall our star player. I feel I have lost all support for Liverpool now.

 

Oh fuck off you soft cunt. Joined Dec 2011 i see? Well anyways i too am from an ethnic minority and the club or player hasn't lost my support. In fact its grown because of this absolute toilet roll of a report.

[Coro]

I feel I have lost all support for Liverpool now.

 

The beginnings of a silverlining to all this.

[usernameunknown]

I feel I have lost all support for Liverpool now.

 

Cya then, manc.

[BringbackBiscan]

I'm wanting a name change about now.

[Guest San Don]

This is just fucking incredible;

 

Para 453 (2) The burden of proof in this case is on the FA. The standard of proof is the flexible civil standard of the balance of probability. The more serious the allegation, taking into account the nature of the misconduct alleged and the content of the case, the greater the burden of evidence required to prove the matter.

 

So by their own admission, the more serious the allegation, the more the burden of evidence to prove the matter.

 

Yet incredibly, they decide 'on the balance of probability,' on the fact that evra is more composed under interview (or should that be cross examination?), that evra stated at the outset he's been called a name 'ten times' then changed that to five, that Suarez isnt a natural english speaker (neither is evra but its claimed he can speak fluently in a number of languages), on the standing of the english game abroad would have repercussions despite the fact that not one person watching the game was aware of any racial slurs being exchanged during the game etc, etc, etc.

 

Im no fucking lawyer but even I can see lots of holes in the basis of this judgement.

[Vivaldo]

I'm still reading through it, but a few things spring to mind:

 

There are definitely grounds for appeal.

 

The findings show Evra to be an unreliable witness.

 

Suarez's lawer needs sacking. Why the fuck did he advise Suarez to accept as evidence claims which he (Suarez) had no idea were true or not (the ref's claims, Evra's teammates claims)?

 

The fact that, despite knowing Suarez couldn't have known what was said by the ref and Evra's teammates, the panel uses Suarez's acceptance of their claims as evidence against Suarez - the claims lend weight to Evra' claims and are used to show him as a reliable witness. In one instance, though, the accepted claims actually contradict what Evra said - and it's interesting to see how the findings deals with this discrepancy...by referring to the fact that Suarez accepted the claims as true (125).

 

The panel should never have took Suarez's acceptance of the refs/teammates testimony as proof that they were true (because they know Suarez couldn't have known if they were or not). The fact that they did, and used it to back up Evra show, for me, that the panel did have a definite agenda.

 

This is the bit I am having trouble with, I had to read it several times because I thought I was reading it wrong, this shows incompetence on our part.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

The FA dont work like a court were you need 100% proof of guilt.

 

Probability of guilt is though and this is what I assume they have used.

 

Evras version of the incident put to the video which has been released is the most likely true version according to the FA.

 

The club good or bad jumped straight in defending Luis and from that moment and more so by that statement they released so soon after his verdict leaves the club in a really sticky situation.

 

There options are very limited and could cost us dearly.

 

Even if it is possable to take Evra or the FA to a court over it,the FA verdict wont change at all,even if the court come out on Luis side.

 

The next and most important thing is,what do you take the FA to court over?

 

I dont know if someone here knows what the FA could/can do to the club if it is taken further.

 

To me I really feel the club has handled everything about the case wrong from the start to the posititon we are at now,infact I feel we have done more damage then good(just how it seems to look to me)

 

Dosent change the fact that to find a player guilty without 100% proof is so wrong especially in this type of thing were it totally affects a players lively hood.

[The Flâneur]

Appeal to who? the FA? I dont think any legal argument can have any recourse on the current sentence given by them. A legal or civil case may give a different verdict, based on entirely different variables, but that doesn't mean the FA have to comply, does it?

[Vivaldo]

This man talks sense. I cant believe a panel that consists of dennis smith could ignore not just his own past history but also the facts of modern life. If every footballer who used insulting or abusive language to oppos was banned, there would be no fucking games ever again.

 

For the commission to ignore the reality of this situation is laughable not to mention an FA trumped up charge. Since when has evra's case been that he was abused or insulted? His claim is based totally on 'racists' language.

 

Smith managed Darren Ferguson, wasn't he his captain? How can this association prove Smith's credibility to remain impartial?

[Vivaldo]

The FA dont work like a court were you need 100% proof of guilt.

 

Probability of guilt is though and this is what I assume they have used.

 

Evras version of the incident put to the video which has been released is the most likely true version according to the FA.

 

The club good or bad jumped straight in defending Luis and from that moment and more so by that statement they released so soon after his verdict leaves the club in a really sticky situation.

 

There options are very limited and could cost us dearly.

 

Even if it is possable to take Evra or the FA to a court over it,the FA verdict wont change at all,even if the court come out on Luis side.

 

The next and most important thing is,what do you take the FA to court over?

 

I dont know if someone here knows what the FA could/can do to the club if it is taken further.

 

To me I really feel the club has handled everything about the case wrong from the start to the posititon we are at now,infact I feel we have done more damage then good(just how it seems to look to me)

 

Dosent change the fact that to find a player guilty without 100% proof is so wrong especially in this type of thing were it totally affects a players lively hood.

 

Negligence! Damaging reputation!

[Vivaldo]

Oh fuck off you soft cunt. Joined Dec 2011 i see? Well anyways i too am from an ethnic minority and the club or player hasn't lost my support. In fact its grown because of this absolute toilet roll of a report.

 

Agreed!!!!!

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

Appeal to who? the FA? I dont think any legal argument can have any recourse on the current sentence given by them. A legal or civil case may give a different verdict, based on entirely different variables, but that doesn't mean the FA have to comply, does it?

 

Thats it in a nutshell.

 

The FA works to its own set of rules and I think the only place that can overrule there verdict is the Court of Arbitration for Sport,the problem then is to do that needs both of the parties to agree to it(which I would presume means Evra).

[Guest San Don]

The FA dont work like a court were you need 100% proof of guilt.

 

Probability of guilt is though and this is what I assume they have used.

 

Evras version of the incident put to the video which has been released is the most likely true version according to the FA.

 

The club good or bad jumped straight in defending Luis and from that moment and more so by that statement they released so soon after his verdict leaves the club in a really sticky situation.

 

There options are very limited and could cost us dearly.

 

Even if it is possable to take Evra or the FA to a court over it,the FA verdict wont change at all,even if the court come out on Luis side.

 

The next and most important thing is,what do you take the FA to court over?

 

I dont know if someone here knows what the FA could/can do to the club if it is taken further.

 

To me I really feel the club has handled everything about the case wrong from the start to the posititon we are at now,infact I feel we have done more damage then good(just how it seems to look to me)

 

Dosent change the fact that to find a player guilty without 100% proof is so wrong especially in this type of thing were it totally affects a players lively hood.

 

The commision itself states the more serious the charge, the more robust the burden of proof needs to be. By their own admission, they cannot use 'balance of probability' in such a case they themselves state is serious. yet that is precisely what they have done ie used less robust proof such as balance and evra's own changed version of events.

 

Appeal to who? the FA? I dont think any legal argument can have any recourse on the current sentence given by them. A legal or civil case may give a different verdict, based on entirely different variables, but that doesn't mean the FA have to comply, does it?

 

Any appeal will be to another different independent panel. There's also the possibility of the club taking this to CAS. I think both parties have to agree to this but, seeing as CAS is recognised as the highest, independent sporting arbitrator, the fa would surely look to be on weak ground over this judgement if they refused to go to CAS and LFC agreed to be bound by its decision.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Balance of probability is fine if you're judging a bad tackle or even somebody breaking a dressing room door, but determining somebody to have said such horribly racist comments and seeing his character smashed to pieces by the media, that should require more than 'well, we believe somebody else'. That's not good enough.

 

If he said what he is accused of, then it's far worse than what Terry is reported to have said. If they think he said it, it should go to court, just like Terry's.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

Negligence! Damaging reputation!

 

I dont think you understood what I meant sorry probably my fault.

 

The FA have a set of rules that they use to make there verdicts and no court of law can change that verdict.

 

Even though in a court of law Luis would not be found guilty of anything dosent affect the FA s outcome of the matter.

[Block109'er]

So Evra is a credible witness eh?

 

His testimony totally contradicts that of Suarez in content and context and is verifyable by not one other person on the field or otherwise.

 

Also we have a Frenchman basing his evidence on his own translation and interpretation of Spanish (a language which is not his mother tongue, unless I'm mistaken?)

 

Now I'm no lawyer but surely those two points alone must form the basis for a very strong and credible appeal?!

 

On a side note, very disappointed with this report from the BBC

 

BBC Sport - Football Association report says Luis Suarez evidence 'unreliable'

 

Directly quoting Evra's personal testimony as 'the facts of the matter' and framing in a way that is very unfair to Suarez in my opinion.

[Vivaldo]

I dont think you understood what I meant sorry probably my fault.

 

The FA have a set of rules that they use to make there verdicts and no court of law can change that verdict.

 

Even though in a court of law Luis would not be found guilty of anything dosent affect the FA s outcome of the matter.

 

Oh ok I understand, but they lose credibility and trust. The trust needed to run its organisation. This could lead to an overhaul to the whole system and start improving its management of the game with some transparency instead of trying to make an example out of someone with no proof, using a twat like Dennis Smith in a game of brinkmanship with Sepp Blatter.

[andrejwout]

I personally go with suarez, cos i belive him...but that means little. On the face of it, the fa should have slapped both in the face, told them 3 match ban each and not fuck us around......job done! Noone knows what exactly was said.....thats the point. You cant take evra evidence and confirm it, but suarez's....then nail luis but not patrik. Its like when you have two kids at school. You get bored with their bull and just send into one corner, the other the opposite corner and be done with it.......silly

[andrejwout]

If, however, we find out that he was lying to us (which we cant) he has taken the piss by lying, defamed the club and is a cunt. A bit of banter is one thing......and im sure if you played in J league youd get 'whitey' banter.....but if he said the shit he is reputed to have said, then he needs out...fr so many reasons that i need not explain. I pray he didnt and dont think he did by the sounds of his rep.