If we win the Europa we are in the Champions League

[Maldini]

It did bollocks, it started because you lot wasn't good enough to finish in the CL places in 05.

 

Maybe they will change the rules again for you this season!

 

And if you know your history...you'll know that the FA's own rule book said that in the event of the Champions League winner not qualifying automatically for the CL they should take the place of the 4th place team. They contravened their own rules to let you in...well into the qualifying rounds anyway...IfithadntbeenforCollina...

[JMARKH]

Evertin brought a dvd out about their champions league exploits called "the road to Villarreal"

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Not good enough to qualify, but good enough to win... makes sense.

[Bluenose1878]

And if you know your history...you'll know that the FA's own rule book said that in the event of the Champions League winner not qualifying automatically for the CL they should take the place of the 4th place team. They contravened their own rules to let you in...well into the qualifying rounds anyway...IfithadntbeenforCollina...

 

Ah ha lad, if YOU knew your history you would know the rules were changed AFTER the events of 2005 as uefa never expected a side to win the CL yet be so average to finish outside the CL places in their domestic league.

 

Check it out with uefa or the FA mate, the rule was changed AFTER then, if it were to happen again the 4th place side would miss out at expence of the CL winners.

[grandrake]

The Europa League cup-holder spot will not be used because Shakhtar Donetsk already qualified for the Champions League.

 

What does the above quote taken from the link Maldini posted mean then? I may have got it wrong but I wouldn't just post something like this for the fun of it, I got the impression from somewhere a few weeks ago that Europa cup winners got into champions league qualification rounds?

 

Here's the way I understand it:

 

The Europa League titleholder gets a bye into the group stages of the following season's Europa League tournament. However, as Shakhtar had qualified for the CL 3rd round qualificatiers by finishing 2nd in the Ukranian Premier League, the bye for the Europa League titleholder (for the Europa League group stages) was unused. And that's what the "unused" part was referring to. *

 

Champions League competition regulations:

-- http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/UCL/84/52/77/845277_DOWNLOAD.pdf

 

Look at page 42 - Annex Ia: Access List for the 2009/2010 UEFA Club Competitions

 

Look at the table on the right under "UEFA Europa League". There you'll see the sentence "TH + UCL 10 teams (PO)". Meaning the Europa League title holders gets a bye into the group stages of the same competition the following season. Similarly, look on the left under "UEFA Champions League" and you'll see no mention of the Europa League titleholders being eligible by merit of winning the sister competition.

 

* Shakhtar were eliminated by FC Timişoara on the away goals rule in the CL 3rd round qualifiers, and ended back in the Europa League playoff rounds as one of the 15 fallen CL teams. They then beat Sivasspor in the Europa League playoffs to advance to the group stages. Basically, they took a long route back to where they'd have been had they not finished top 2 in the domestic competition.

[The Dude Abides]

PRetty sure the winner of the Europa League doesn' get in, as surely they'd be making a big song and dance about it?

 

It's up to the FA how they allocate their fopur places isn't it? They could in theory give a place to whoever wins the FA Cup(great idea imo).

 

Anyway, just don't see any way UEFA would let England have five teams in the competition after fighting so hard to keep us out those years ago, and there's no way the FA would take a place off the 4th placed team in favour of a club who "only" won the Europa League.

[Maldini]

Ah ha lad, if YOU knew your history you would know the rules were changed AFTER the events of 2005 as uefa never expected a side to win the CL yet be so average to finish outside the CL places in their domestic league.

 

Check it out with uefa or the FA mate, the rule was changed AFTER then, if it were to happen again the 4th place side would miss out at expence of the CL winners.

 

You're completely wrong here. UEFA's rules at the time deferred to the national governing body of whoever the champions were. The FA's rules said the team who won the CL should go in but they changed their mind, presumably they thought it would never be an issue when they were writing the rules in the mid 90s.

 

The rules were changed afterwards to make sure the champions AUTOMATICALLY went in and the decision wasn't at the discretion of the champions' FA.

[Maldini]

It's up to the FA how they allocate their fopur places isn't it? They could in theory give a place to whoever wins the FA Cup(great idea imo).

 

Not according to UEFA's rules they can't

[The Dude Abides]

Not according to UEFA's rules they can't

 

But they can give it to a team that wins the CL? How is that ruling defined in the rulebook? How do they differentiate there i'm wondering? As you said above, the FA had previously stated that anyone who won the CL would be allowed to take the 4th CL spot.

[The Chef]

BIG REALITY CHECK HERE FFS

 

Even if it were true, we aint good enough to win any cup.Not beating teams like stoke and portsmouth leaves in a sorry fuckin state.Valencia and Juve would have no problems against us thats for sure, unless things change.And we all no thats unlikely.

 

Trying to remaining positive i can understand but..........3 words spring to mind.

 

FANTASY FUCKIN WORLD

[Little Sammy]

Do you seriously think we'll win the Europa Cup?

[Kennys_spell]

In 2005 we were shite in the league, must have been to finish below Everton but we know what happened then.

 

I am not suggesting it is similar this season as for a start the Europa cup is not the same and Rafa is in his 6th season and the progress has stalled, where as in 2005 you could excuse the league form as it was his first season.

 

But I think now that Gerrard, Torres and Benayoun are crocked we will be out of the race for 4th before they are back again so if we can stay in the Europa which I admit to mocking by the way,and I have changed my mind about playing the reserves as I think this is our best hope of getting into the Champions League. Whether it is false optimism I don't know but I think we will win it.

 

I wouldn't give up the race for 4th so easily - if we beat Spurs next time out we will be 1 point off 4th place.

[Little Sammy]

I wouldn't give up the race for 4th so easily - if we beat Spurs next time out we will be 1 point off 4th place.

 

Aston Villa and City will have a game in hand.

 

We have to play away at City. We're going to play Spurs without Gerrard, Torres and Benayoun. Lennon will be back and fresh.

 

Do you honestly believe the dross we have playing is going to beat a hungry Tottenham team with a genuine top-4 forward line, while we have Eggface as our only out-and-out striker?

[RafaLaBamba]

Some guy said that if you win the Super Cup you would be in the Champions League....I didn't take him seriously!

[tcb]

Aston Villa and City will have a game in hand.

 

We have to play away at City. We're going to play Spurs without Gerrard, Torres and Benayoun. Lennon will be back and fresh.

 

Do you honestly believe the dross we have playing is going to beat a hungry Tottenham team with a genuine top-4 forward line, while we have Eggface as our only out-and-out striker?

You should back up that talk by putting some money on spurs to win if you`re so certain

[Guest PurpleNose]

I think we're more likely to finish 4th than win this.

[RedKnight]

This is ain't true and nothing but wishful thinking that a) we'll win it and b) it gets us into the Champions League.

[Kennys_spell]

Aston Villa and City will have a game in hand.

 

We have to play away at City. We're going to play Spurs without Gerrard, Torres and Benayoun. Lennon will be back and fresh.

 

Do you honestly believe the dross we have playing is going to beat a hungry Tottenham team with a genuine top-4 forward line, while we have Eggface as our only out-and-out striker?

 

Put whatever spin you like on it - it doesn't change the fact that if we beat Spurs we go to within one point of 4th.

[INTORRESTING]

In 2005 we were shite in the league, must have been to finish below Everton but we know what happened then.

 

I am not suggesting it is similar this season as for a start the Europa cup is not the same and Rafa is in his 6th season and the progress has stalled, where as in 2005 you could excuse the league form as it was his first season.

 

But I think now that Gerrard, Torres and Benayoun are crocked we will be out of the race for 4th before they are back again so if we can stay in the Europa which I admit to mocking by the way,and I have changed my mind about playing the reserves as I think this is our best hope of getting into the Champions League. Whether it is false optimism I don't know but I think we will win it.

 

we are 4 points off 4th playing horrendous football whilst the others are having their best seasons trying to get 4th. As soon as we pick up 4th will be ours.

[JohnnyH]

Always makes me laugh how angry Everton fans got in 2005 when the winners of the CL were allowed into the comp the next year to defend (as had been the way for decades). I'd understand it if we had taken their place, but they were in it also, so it was only bitterness that made them so angry.

 

Anyway, up until that Christmas the UEFA rules were that the winners got in automatically, it was only changed for that 1 season where they deferred to the local FA. Our FA then had the rule that a winner takes the 4th spot. Yet then they bent the rules for Everton. I didn't mind though as we were in it as winners so I didn't care who else got in, unlike our blue neighbours who showed themselves at their bitterest best.

[zigackly]

This however reckons it's a real thing: Qualification for European Cup Football 2009/2010

 

If Bert Kassies says there's a place for the Europa League winners then there is. This evident rule change passed me by in a fanfare of silence as well.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Just checked 2 sites were still favourites with bookies for this they got it

 

1. Liverpool

2. Valencia

3. Juventus

5. Roma

6. Benfica

 

Can't believe they don't Shakhtar Donetsk on that list.

[Red Nick]

A lot of deluded people on this thread

 

We wont get past the next round the team that will beat us has already beaten Sevilla who are a match for Barcelona and Real Madrid.

 

Have you actually seen us play this season!

[YNWA12]

If Bert Kassies says there's a place for the Europa League winners then there is. This evident rule change passed me by in a fanfare of silence as well.

 

Yeah, this rule definitely wasn't there last year. I remember Aston Villa played their reserves in this competion then, because they were also fighting for fourth place/CL football.

[a stoner]

Are any of you seriously thinking we can win it?

Not a hope with the way we are playing, if we can't beat reading at home how the fuck do you think we are going to get on agaisnt the likes of Valencia, roma etc.

Get real and wake up this is irrelivent we HAVE to fight for 4th spot to be in it next year and with the current results there's no chance of that either.