Liege report

[TLW]

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/news/67279-liverpool-1-standard-liege-0-match-report.html

[Woo]

Oh aye, youtube clips nowadays eh?

 

Sellout.

[TLW]

Gotta move with the times Alex.

[hamstrung]

If you’ve been used to eating quality food from M&S, and suddenly someone shoves a box of skanky Micro Chips in front of you, you’re gonna struggle to eat them. To a homeless, starving bum however it would seem like a feast. And there in lies the difference in attitudes between Liverpool and Everton when it comes to the two European competitions.

 

Quality.

[Red Nick]

Some highlights and good analysis from Andy Townsend:

 

Did that hurt Dave:thumbup:

 

With regards to your points regarding Alonso I think you miss one very important point. If you look at the clip you will see the space that Xabi had in that game compared to the space he had in the first 60 minutes last night and there you might find your answer. When Xabi doesnt have space to work in he looks average, the game last night summed up xabi perfectly for 60 minutes he looked average and Liege were all over him but as they tired a bit towards the end and space appeared Xabi started to look class again.

 

The real problem for Xabi is everyone now knows how to nullify him

 

Just my point of view like

[dave u]

See, I disagree with that Nick. It's one of those things that gets trotted out so often it ends up being taken as fact.

 

Are people really trying to tell me that in his first year here nobody bothered to close down Alonso? His first couple of games, maybe I can go with that. But every club extensively scouts all of their opponents for weaknesses, and the idea that it took a year for teams to realise "hey, that Alonso is pretty useful, we might want to try and get close to him and stop him running the game."

 

There's an element of it, but it's being way overplayed in my opinion.

[Guest TK-421]

I've said this before but my view is that Kuyt and Benayoun are chosen in order to protect the full backs as the team looks to find form and fitness going into the new season. Kuyt and Benayoun will offer much more protection than the likes of El Zhar, Pennant and Babel. It was important because we didn't have a full quota of holding midfielders to choose from, meaning Rafa had to adapt his formation to provide more protection for the back four. That's my theory anyway.

[Woo]

I've said this before but my view is that Kuyt and Benayoun are chosen in order to protect the full backs as the team looks to find form and fitness going into the new season. Kuyt and Benayoun will offer much more protection than the likes of El Zhar, Pennant and Babel. It was important because we didn't have a full quota of holding midfielders to choose from, meaning Rafa had to adapt his formation to provide more protection for the back four. That's my theory anyway.

 

Agree about Dirk but not Yossi really TK.

[Ged B]

I've said this before but my view is that Kuyt and Benayoun are chosen in order to protect the full backs as the team looks to find form and fitness going into the new season. Kuyt and Benayoun will offer much more protection than the likes of El Zhar, Pennant and Babel. It was important because we didn't have a full quota of holding midfielders to choose from, meaning Rafa had to adapt his formation to provide more protection for the back four. That's my theory anyway.

 

 

If that is true, especially when you consider the standard of teams we have had to play so far this season, then it is very sad indeed.

[Guest TK-421]

If that is true, especially when you consider the standard of teams we have had to play so far this season, then it is very sad indeed.

 

I think it's understandable in the circumstances (Olympics, not allowed to sign Barry, Gerrard's fitness etc) and the results back it up, anyway it's just a theory.

[Ged B]

I think it's understandable in the circumstances (Olympics, not allowed to sign Barry, Gerrard's fitness etc) and the results back it up, anyway it's just a theory.

 

 

But the performances don't.

I think it's got more to do with luck and moments of individual brilliance that we've won our opening games, and less about the way Rafa has set the team up to play.

But anyway, as you said it's only a theory, so there's no real point debating it too strongly.

[Paul]

I've been banging on about Xabi needing options to show his full Molby-esque potential for ages Dave, so thanks for illustrating the point so brilliantly.

 

I've said this before but my view is that Kuyt and Benayoun are chosen in order to protect the full backs as the team looks to find form and fitness going into the new season. Kuyt and Benayoun will offer much more protection than the likes of El Zhar, Pennant and Babel. It was important because we didn't have a full quota of holding midfielders to choose from, meaning Rafa had to adapt his formation to provide more protection for the back four. That's my theory anyway.

 

I'm sure there's a lot of truth in your speculation there; I certainly have seen the selections of the early season as being primarily about not losing. However, that's where I am most critical of Rafa: even with The Chief, Lucas and Babel out and Gerrard struggling, we should have the courage of our convictions to play the system that was so effective when it was used last season.

 

The best way to find form and fitness is to stick to what works rather than to keep chopping and changing. By and large, footballers are simple souls and creatures of habit. They can't cope with being continually asked to change what they do. If Robbie Keane is going to take the Gerrard slot playing just off Torres, how does putting him in a system that starves him of space and service help him to acclimatise to his new club and role?

 

As Rash was so fond of telling us, Rafa is too cautious and I'm worried that even this early in the season - and in spite of the results of these four matches - that caution could be self-defeating. We are going into two huge league games - against tough opponents - ill-prepared, in my view: if we play 442, the lack of width will be horribly exposed, probably by Villa and certainly by The Mancs. However, if we now switch to 4231, we're doing it without any competitive preparation for Keane in his new slot or with an alternative to Gerrard on the right.

[Woo]

I'm sure there's a lot of truth in your speculation there; I certainly have seen the selections of the early season as being primarily about not losing. However, that's where I am most critical of Rafa: even with The Chief, Lucas and Babel out and Gerrard struggling, we should have the courage of our convictions to play the system that was so effective when it was used last season.

 

The best way to find form and fitness is to stick to what works rather than to keep chopping and changing. By and large, footballers are simple souls and creatures of habit. They can't cope with being continually asked to change what they do. If Robbie Keane is going to take the Gerrard slot playing just off Torres, how does putting him in a system that starves him of space and service help him to acclimatise to his new club and role?

 

As Rash was so fond of telling us, Rafa is too cautious and I'm worried that even this early in the season - and in spite of the results of these four matches - that caution could be self-defeating. We are going into two huge league games - against tough opponents - ill-prepared, in my view: if we play 442, the lack of width will be horribly exposed, probably by Villa and certainly by The Mancs. However, if we now switch to 4231, we're doing it without any competitive preparation for Keane in his new slot or with an alternative to Gerrard on the right.

 

Thats a fair point that Paul, I guess this is where the team will have to show its worth and the manager will have to earn his pay. By getting the right results against tough opposition given the current deficencies in the squad.

[WaltonRed]

Good post from Paul and I agree but I think we need to get back to the 4231 asap.

 

With Stevie out throw Keane in behind and leave Dirk on the right for the time being.

[RedKnight]

I can remember being at that Norwich game and being blown away by how good Alonso was. It was like a breath of fresh air after the stale servings from the previous season.

[Ted]

Notice I didn't get my mention eh, Dave?

 

Fucking Swiss.

[Redwooly]

From those clips i noticed the great width Warnock gave us and remembered why i was abit disappointed we let him go. He isnt a world beater by any means and his career with us was up and down, but he generally didnt let us down, was a local(ish) lad, came back from numerous broken legs and is as good if not better than anything we have in that position now. Seen him a few times for blackburn too and looks like hes progressed abit.

 

Totally agree with the townsend analysis too, he pretty much nailed it. Decent analysis on ITV :wow:

[dave u]

I was trying to spare your blushes Ted.

[Ted]

I blush for no man.

[WaltonRed]

"Chronic lack of width"

 

We have been like that since Houllier, he didnt sort it and I honestly dont think Rafa ever will either.

 

As for Pennent I agree with Dave, no point selling him unless we have someone lined up and thats highly unlikely.

 

As for Warnock whoever mentioned him, he just needed to know he was 1st choice and he'd be trusted with a long run even if he made mistakes which sadly no one will ever get.

[dave u]

Warnock needs to play every week to show his best form. With Riise and Aurelio there at the time, that wasn't going to happen. In hindsight, I wish we'd kept him and sold Riise, but given the injury problems Warnock had I can see why Rafa wouldn't have wanted to leave himself with Warnock and Aurelio! At least Riise was always available.

 

Its ironic that Warnock has hardly had an injury since he left though.

[WaltonRed]

Warnock needs to play every week to show his best form.QUOTE]

 

I'd say that goes for most if not all footballers though Dave.

 

Warnock should of been our number 3 and I think its one of Rafa's small number of mistakes in the sales that he's sanctioned.

[dave u]

Warnock needs to play every week to show his best form.QUOTE]

 

I'd say that goes for most if not all footballers though Dave.

 

Warnock should of been our number 3 and I think its one of Rafa's small number of mistakes in the sales that he's sanctioned.

 

I think so too, but I could understand his thinking. It was a difficult situation, as any time Warnock got a run he always got injured. Same with Aurelio. At least Riise was always available week in week out.

[Ted]

Warnock needs to play every week to show his best form.QUOTE]

 

I'd say that goes for most if not all footballers though Dave.

 

Warnock should of been our number 3 and I think its one of Rafa's small number of mistakes in the sales that he's sanctioned.

 

Guthrie too.

[Redwooly]

Warnock needs to play every week to show his best form. With Riise and Aurelio there at the time, that wasn't going to happen. In hindsight, I wish we'd kept him and sold Riise, but given the injury problems Warnock had I can see why Rafa wouldn't have wanted to leave himself with Warnock and Aurelio! At least Riise was always available.

 

Its ironic that Warnock has hardly had an injury since he left though.

 

Fair point.

 

And typical!