Liverpool FC: The 30-Year Wait

[Crazy Dave]

2 minutes ago, Reckoner said:

i completely blame the players for Evans not winning the league too, a true gent who had Liverpool running through his veins.

Agree that he's a true gent and more than deserving of being recognized as a club legend. 

 

I don't know about just blaming the players mind. Some of them were clearly culpable, but I don't think Evans can escape all of the blame for not winning the title in 1997. 

 

The players from the mid-90's all seem to like Roy, but they seem split on whether he was "hard" enough. Fowler went out of his way, and we saw it again last night too, to argue that he was, but some of the others I've read like Collymore, John Scales and more were very critical about some of the shit going on at Melwood. Some of the players were parking in his spot, eating bacon sarnies out onto the training pitch and Fowler would have him in a headlock in front of the boys. Ruddock was shitting in his trainees. 

[an tha]

Souness has admitted that he tried to change too much too quickly.

 

His ideas were good and he blooded kids like Fowler, Redknapp and McManaman - but he tried to change too much too quickly.

[Bad Red Bull]

Can someone download it and share the link for us non-uk folks?

[joe_fishfish]

Souness was never really a good manager was he? Came first in a two horse race in Scotland and planted that flag on the pitch in Turkey but that's about it. Was a disaster for Newcastle as well as us.

 

Thought Rafa came across really well in the doc. He's got a reputation for being a bit cold and unlikeable, but you can tell he still loves the club. Thought it was quite noticeable that Rodgers has toned down the Brent-esque management speak since his time with us and he looks a lot more comfortable in his own skin these days, but he could have fucking got changed out of his Leicester City tracky for the interview.

 

Jurgen was Jurgen. The greatest man alive.

[redheart]

Souness was a much better manager than given credit for.

 

Dalglish is the greatest player I have ever seen play the game but he left the club in a mess. Too many players and had too old together. He did not refresh the squad and most of them were playing all our yesterdays. Some of the players that he brought in towards the end were not good enough (David Burrows, Glen Hysen, Nick Tanner, David Speedie etc). We were not set for continued success.

 

Souness had to change things. But too quickly and he had all the managerial charm and subtlety of Joseph Stalin.

 

Roy Evans lovely man but never up to it. He said he wanted to bring back the joy and people playing football with a smile. He forgot that great teams also new how to snarl and bite.

 

Oddly it would have been better if Evans had got the job before Souness. Evans could have gone for gradual change and move towards a more modern and professional approach and Souness would have been older than 39 when he took the job and would have been more mature and ready for the task.

 

Houllier was vital for Liverpool. We needed to break from the past and modernise. He did it with cunning and guile. His season of joint manager with Evans showed real intelligence and cunning. He could spend a year seeing inside the whole club without any jeopardy to him. Anything went well he got the credit and anything that went wrong Evans took the blame. He looked at the club, realised it was a shambles and professionalised the club. He would have led us to the league but for his health problems.

[joe_fishfish]

Disagree on Houllier eventually leading us to the league, for me he was never astute enough a first team coach for that, but he has to be given full credit for dragging the club into the 21st century.

 

We never really had a technical director / director of football type role under Moores but he would have been perfect for that, it's what he did with the French FA to great success as well.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

2 hours ago, Bad Red Bull said:

Can someone download it and share the link for us non-uk folks?

 

https://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2020/08/31/liverpool-fc-the-30-year-wait-documentary/

[Baresi]

Rick Parry attempting to absolve himself of any blame for cancer and aids was staggering. I still hate him and Moores more than those two charlatans. 

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

3 hours ago, Madrid Diecinueve said:

Rick Parry attempting to absolve himself of any blame for cancer and aids was staggering. I still hate him and Moores more than those two charlatans. 

Agreed.

 

The audacity of Parry to say 'in some ways we got left behind and caught a bit napping' was staggering. Held us back for years.

 

All on Moores/Parry's watch. We still won trophies despite them.

 

And this isn't even taking into account how the sale of the club was handled/done.

[Barrington Womble]

On 31/08/2020 at 14:54, Stickman said:

Still pisses me off the way they go on about “Rafa’s rant” like it had some major bearing on the title and playing into Fergie’s shite mind games .
He made that press conference on 9th Jan and between then and the end of the season we lost one game and ended up winning 11 out of the last 12 games so we hardly crumbled but I guess that doesn’t fit the narrative.
What cost us the league that season were too many draws at home to the likes of Stoke, Hull , Fulham and West Ham all before Christmas .

if anyone was getting rattled it was Whisky Nose by resorting to get Fat Sam to try and create an issue over Rafa and the “game over” hand gesture

The 2 things I always think about with the rant. Firstly it wasn't a rant. He'd written it down and was calculated like everything Rafa does. Secondly instead of going out and smashing whoever we played the day after (Stoke away iirc), we went out and did a typical Rafa play for 0-0 and hope for some magic from somewhere. He came out fighting with his words, but his actions didn't follow suit. We did well after that but were always playing catch up. 

[Total Longo]

On 01/09/2020 at 08:27, redheart said:

Souness was a much better manager than given credit for.

 

Dalglish is the greatest player I have ever seen play the game but he left the club in a mess. Too many players and had too old together. He did not refresh the squad and most of them were playing all our yesterdays. Some of the players that he brought in towards the end were not good enough (David Burrows, Glen Hysen, Nick Tanner, David Speedie etc). We were not set for continued success.

 

Whilst i agree with most of this, it's easy to forget that Kenny was (understandably) mentally destroyed after Hillsborough and as such wasn't making the most rational of decisions. Similar to Houliier post-op. 

 

Speaking of Houllier, that "it's your team, boss" spiel that he comes out with about Istanbul is utter cringe and massively disrespectful to Benitez. He needs to knock that on the head.

[Crazy Dave]

18 minutes ago, Total Longo said:

Whilst i agree with most of this, it's easy to forget that Kenny was (understandably) mentally destroyed after Hillsborough and as such wasn't making the most rational of decisions. Similar to Houliier post-op. 

 

Speaking of Houllier, that "it's your team, boss" spiel that he comes out with about Istanbul is utter cringe and massively disrespectful to Benitez. He needs to knock that on the head.

I always liked Ged, but have to agree on that. He does have a tendency to forget that the team he left behind included the likes of Diouf, Diao and Cheyrou. He also spunked a large part of Rafa's summer budget on Cisse who was never good enough to justify that fee. 

 

Plus it was Rafa, not Ged, that turned Carragher into (arguably) a world class centre back. Houllier was selecting Biscan back there in 2003/2004. 

[Barrington Womble]

41 minutes ago, Total Longo said:

Whilst i agree with most of this, it's easy to forget that Kenny was (understandably) mentally destroyed after Hillsborough and as such wasn't making the most rational of decisions. Similar to Houliier post-op. 

 

Speaking of Houllier, that "it's your team, boss" spiel that he comes out with about Istanbul is utter cringe and massively disrespectful to Benitez. He needs to knock that on the head.

spot on about kenny then. he has lost it i think at the end, but he takes no blame for that. i personally think hillsborough destroyed the club top to bottom, the title we won a year later was just muscle memory. 

[dockers_strike]

People say The King signed some rubbish like speedie and yes, I used to join in the 'fuck off, speedie!' chant but, he scored 3 in 5 games including a couple against united when Rushie was always firing blanks at them.

 

Still maintain that was one of Souey's mistakes getting rid of him so quick when we needed goals.

[TheDrowningMan]

2 hours ago, Total Longo said:

Speaking of Houllier, that "it's your team, boss" spiel that he comes out with about Istanbul is utter cringe and massively disrespectful to Benitez. He needs to knock that on the head.

In a similar vein, Rodgers is now claiming that he asked for Van Dijk when he was at Groningen and then Celtic, which contradicts John Collins’ previous comments about  recommending him to Gary McAllister, only for Rodgers to show no interest.

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-virgil-van-dijk-mamadou-18859373

 

 

[BeefStroganoff]

48 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

People say The King signed some rubbish like speedie and yes, I used to join in the 'fuck off, speedie!' chant but, he scored 3 in 5 games including a couple against united when Rushie was always firing blanks at them.

 

Still maintain that was one of Souey's mistakes getting rid of him so quick when we needed goals.

He was alright Speedie. I always thought he was a dangerous player at Chelsea whenever I watched him play.

 

You don't realise how both successful and turbulent our history is sometimes. Seeing it all condensed like that was a stark reminder of just how much we have gone through.

 

I was never a fan of Houllier for some reason. He just didn't click for me, even though we had a successful little period under him. I think I speak for most fans when I say i was incredulous at him offloading Litmanen, Fowler and Anelka for Diouf and Cheyrou. I still can't believe it to this day.

[Crazy Dave]

3 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

I was never a fan of Houllier for some reason. He just didn't click for me, even though we had a successful little period under him. I think I speak for most fans when I say i was incredulous at him offloading Litmanen, Fowler and Anelka for Diouf and Cheyrou. I still can't believe it to this day.

I think it was obvious that Houllier wanted to shift out anybody who remotely challenged his authority. Fowler and Anelka certainly fell into this category.

 

Litmanen didn't seem like one who rocked the boat mind. I still think it's criminal that Houllier didn't play him more - one of my very favourite players to ever wear the red shirt. 

 

 

[s(k)aturation]

1 hour ago, dockers_strike said:

People say The King signed some rubbish like speedie and yes, I used to join in the 'fuck off, speedie!' chant but, he scored 3 in 5 games including a couple against united when Rushie was always firing blanks at them.

 

Still maintain that was one of Souey's mistakes getting rid of him so quick when we needed goals.

 

He got an equaliser against United... I don't remember a second goal.

 

[Barrington Womble]

Just now, Crazy Dave said:

I think it was obvious that Houllier wanted to shift out anybody who remotely challenged his authority. Fowler and Anelka certainly fell into this category.

 

Litmanen didn't seem like one who rocked the boat mind. I still think it's criminal that Houllier didn't play him more - one of my very favourite players to ever wear the red shirt. 

 

 

So the story I understand about litmanen was they fell out on the training ground. Something was happening in a session and jari was telling one of the forwards (I can't remember who now, maybe Robbie) how or where he should make a run. Houllier stopped the training session, went mental said he was the coach and that was the end of their relationship and it never recovered. 

[Barrington Womble]

1 minute ago, skaro said:

 

He got an equaliser against United... I don't remember a second goal.

 

Didn't he score in a derby too? 

[s(k)aturation]

4 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Didn't he score in a derby too? 

 

Yes, that was two goals... in a 3-1 win.

 

Shortly before the Cup debacle against them.

 

 

[Scott_M]

Rick Parry’s greatest achievement is making the mancs the richest club in the world. 

[dockers_strike]

53 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

He was alright Speedie. I always thought he was a dangerous player at Chelsea whenever I watched him play.

 

You don't realise how both successful and turbulent our history is sometimes. Seeing it all condensed like that was a stark reminder of just how much we have gone through.

 

I was never a fan of Houllier for some reason. He just didn't click for me, even though we had a successful little period under him. I think I speak for most fans when I say i was incredulous at him offloading Litmanen, Fowler and Anelka for Diouf and Cheyrou. I still can't believe it to this day.

To be fair, the stick we used to give speedie every game he played against us, I was surprised the lad signed!

[BeefStroganoff]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

Didn't he score in a derby too? 

Scored 2 in the derby, one against Sunderland at home.

[BeefStroganoff]

32 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

To be fair, the stick we used to give speedie every game he played against us, I was surprised the lad signed!

I know! He was always a thorn for us in the 80s though especially at Stamford Bridge.

 

been watching some videos from that Dave Waller on Youtube if anybody knows of his channel. He's started uploading videos from the 83-84 season. they are ace.