General Election 2019

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

TBF mate - those aren't lies, they are opinions.

His straight answer has been he will have another referendum. Thats a straight answer. Corbin voted to remain. he doesn't need to answer that question again. Hence the line "Not for the 52 or the 48 but for the 99%"

 

 

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, Denny Crane said:

It seems to me the Lib Dems will only be satisfied with a referendum with remain against remain as the two options. Attacking Labour for offering a referendum with remain as an option when it was Lib Dem policy for a few years seems fitting of a write-up in the Daily Mash. 

 

Add to this that Jo Swinson herself lobbied for a referendum years before than it goes from Daily Mash to the fucking Monster Mash. 

[Strontium]

24 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

I thought the  whole point for Labour was try to get a better deal (which will still be worse) and then put that against remaining in a referendum. Which hopefully most people will just vote remain.

 

The word "hopefully" is doing some mighty heavy lifting in that sentence.

[Bobby Hundreds]

3 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

The word "hopefully" is doing some mighty heavy lifting in that sentence.

It is. I want to remain but I think just saying that's it we are remaining isn't the right thing to do. We need another referendum.

[clockspeed]

4 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Because what is the point of taking a risk on Boris Johnsons deal? Lets say they use that in a referendum and it somehow passes? Fuck that. 

Get that but my fear (after watching Kier) is not enough waivering voters will be prepared to vote sensibly this time due to another 6 month renegotiation proposal . Also we know what the best result for normal workers etc is anyway,  which is remain. I would argue there is more appetite for uncovering the detail behind BJ deal as to what it means to us than a renegotiation. I suspect BJs deal is in effect going to be  a no deal senario with a border down Irish sea rather than solid structures on island of Ireland. As such dont see much appetite for that. Take your point ref risk

 

[cloggypop]

32 minutes ago, clockspeed said:

So what's the point of trying to negotiate another deal . Why not say labour will offer referendum on  Boris J deal V  Remain ?

The point is to negotiate a better deal that won't harm the country so much if it actually wins. Protect the people from their own self harming instincts. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

The best deal is the one they have, not the EU's fault that several UK Governments have been incompetent and hide behind the EU to mask their own failings. 

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

1 hour ago, clockspeed said:

So what's the point of trying to negotiate another deal . Why not say labour will offer referendum on  Boris J deal V  Remain ?

Because the British public have a history of. Voting to leave, so if leave gets selected again, at least ensure it is a well thought out deal planned and agreed ahead of the actual referendum, like that gobshite Cameron should have done in the first place.

[aRdja]

I’m like *so* confused by this.

 

 

[Strontium]

Yes, I too am confused by the idea that a credible deal is available. Because as we've seen, it's bollocks.

[sir roger]

1 hour ago, clockspeed said:

So what's the point of trying to negotiate another deal . Why not say labour will offer referendum on  Boris J deal V  Remain ?

My reading of the 2 main differences would be firstly a customs union meaning unlike Johnson's deal there would be no need to develop a separate trade deal with any EU members post-Brexit and it gets rid of the Ireland situation, and secondly, agreeing immediately that EU citizens already in the country can stay here post-Brexit.

[Captain Turdseye]

1 minute ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Yes, I too am confused by the idea that a credible deal is available. Because as we've seen, it's bollocks.

 

It’s bollocks to come up with a better deal than the one the Tories have proposed? Stop talking shite. 

[aRdja]

5 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Yes, I too am confused by the idea that a credible deal is available. Because as we've seen, it's bollocks.

Lols

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, Captain Turdseye said:

It’s bollocks to come up with a better deal than the one the Tories have proposed? Stop talking shite. 

 

A "credible deal" in my book is one which doesn't leave us worse off than before.

[Duff Man]

1 hour ago, cloggypop said:

The point is to negotiate a better deal that won't harm the country so much if it actually wins. Protect the people from their own self harming instincts. 

Really would be a lot easier for everyone if certain people stopped pretending not to understand this.

[Strontium]

4 minutes ago, sir roger said:

My reading of the 2 main differences would be firstly a customs union meaning unlike Johnson's deal there would be no need to develop a separate trade deal with any EU members post-Brexit and it gets rid of the Ireland situation, and secondly, agreeing immediately that EU citizens already in the country can stay here post-Brexit.

 

A customs union Brexit would surely be the worst of both worlds, to lose all the advantages of being in the single market, but being unable to negotiate our own trade deals with non-member countries.

[sir roger]

Corbyn said that he & Starmer have been speaking to the EU for a fair while & joked that Keir had a season ticket for the Eurostar , so I don't think it is too big a leap.

[Duff Man]

If you don't want Corbyn's deal on the ticket, what leave option do you want?

[Captain Turdseye]

Just now, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

A "credible deal" in my book is one which doesn't leave us worse off than before.

 

There has to be some kind of deal to go against Remain in a 2nd referendum. At the very least, staying in the CU would be less damaging should Leave win again. 

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, Duff Man said:

If you don't want Corbyn's deal on the ticket, what leave option do you want?

 

I'm happy for A. Deal to go up against Remain, I just don't believe the claims that it will be a "credible deal" that isn't damaging for the country.

 

Corbyn's words carry some weight with his followers, if he keeps describing his theoretical deal as a good one, then it might pass.

[Captain Turdseye]

The EU have known about Labour’s ‘six tests’ Brexit policy for years now. Has there ever been any indication they wouldn’t negotiate with a new government?

 

 

[Strontium]

There's no deal that satisfies all of those tests, though. It's impossible. Literally impossible.

[sir roger]

1 minute ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

A customs union Brexit would surely be the worst of both worlds, to lose all the advantages of being in the single market, but being unable to negotiate our own trade deals with non-member countries.

Disagree , the EU is by far our biggest and most important market, and after watching the Tories desperately flounder in looking for decent trade deals around the globe I am not convinced other countries are queuing up to give us better single deals than we already have with the the EU given the economies of scale involved.

 

I think it may actually turn in to a trade version of a David Attenborough documentary with the UK playing the baby antelope with a limp that wanders away from the herd, and the likes of the US playing the pride of lions.

[Captain Turdseye]

3 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

There's no deal that satisfies all of those tests, though. It's impossible. Literally impossible.

 

Does Johnson’s deal satisfy any of them?

[Duff Man]

Just now, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I'm happy for A. Deal to go up against Remain, I just don't believe the claims that it will be a "credible deal" that isn't damaging for the country.

 

Corbyn's words carry some weight with his followers, if he keeps describing his theoretical deal as a good one, then it might pass.

Doesn't the polling suggest that it'd actually have much less chance of passing, with leavers being far less likely to vote for a Corbyn Brexit than a Boris one. It also suggested a lot of leavers wouldn't even turn out if a soft Brexit was on the ticket.