Middle East Thread

[stringvest]

He seems pretty pissed off, whether he can or has the will to make a pointless stand is another thing. America has a reputation as the one in charge to uphold here, its a matter of power projection as much as anything else, arrogant patriotism is a dangerous motive to play with. That works both ways, as I say theyve not been shy about increasing the arms flow to Isreal under Obama even though its not as if the problem is Isreal not having enough weapons, anyway time will tell it might get interesting at least, theres the Iran factor as well but Obama can only do so much and Im not sure hes doing anything than what he thinks is the best interest scenario as the head of the worlds only superpower.

 

One other thing Im not sure Isreal is strategically as important to the USA anymore, with developments in terms of USA compliant clients in the middle east now and the diversification of fuels and location of fossil fuels are outside of that zone now, with things like ISIS running riot keeping the chaos ticking over its going well for them.

 

Dennis, even if Israel was of no strategic importance to USA (which, because of it's location, it will always be), the pro-Israeli lobby in the west is so powerful, and so pervasive, it will always be the first name on the team sheet when military, political and financial support is handed out.  

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

One of his parents weren't a white American. The world doesn't have to end.

[dennis tooth]

Dennis, even if Israel was of no strategic importance to USA (which, because of it's location, it will always be), the pro-Israeli lobby in the west is so powerful, and so pervasive, it will always be the first name on the team sheet when military, political and financial support is handed out.  

Forever??

[stringvest]

One of his parents weren't a white American. The world doesn't have to end.

 

Tell that to Texas.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Tell that to Texas.

Dear Texas,

 

One of his parents weren't a white American; the world need not end.

 

Love,

 

NVizzle from the TLWizzle.

[Neil G]

It's much more likely that the US will fall into line with Netanyahu's position than vice versa. Whatever Obama might manage to do in the rest of his time in office, the next president will be much more pro-Israel and normal service will be resumed.

 

With Putin and ISIS strutting their stuff, next year's presidential election will be the first since 2004 that foreign policy and national security will be major campaign issues. The pro-Likud lobby and their allies in the media will pull out all the stops to lump the Palestinians in with ISIS as part of the global Islamist threat, and to paint any candidate who's critical of Netanyahu as undermining the war on terror. I expect the Republican candidate to take a staunch pro-Likud line to appeal to the Christian right, and the Democratic candidate to try and match them so they're not portrayed as soft on terrorism. And that kind of commitment will be difficult to go back on once in office, even if they were minded to. If the Republican wins, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he or she actively puts an impossible barrier in the way of a two-state solution, like making any negotiations conditional on Hamas renouncing its commitment to destroy Israel.

 

There will be no meaningful progress towards peace as long as Netanyahu is in office. He is the single biggest barrier to a peaceful solution, more so than Sharon, Arafat or Hamas ever were.

[stringvest]

Dear Texas,

 

One of his parents weren't a white American; the world need not end.

 

Love,

 

NVizzle from the TLWizzle.

 

typical geek literalism.

[dennis tooth]

SD says Hamas vows to wipe isreal off the map in its charter but says nothing when Netanyahu promises there will never be a palestine.

 

One country has wiped the other off the map, ask SD which.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

typical geek literalism.

Ta.

[stringvest]

Ta.

 

haha!  anytime NV.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

haha!  anytime NV.

Tuesday 4am it is.

[stringvest]

that was the very definition of a reluctant rep

[AngryOfTuebrook]

"Good evening, Tel Aviv.  Your scores, please."

 

"Hungary, NUL FUCKING POINTS!!!"

 

https://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2015/03/19/hungary-remembers-the-gaza-massacre-in-eurovision-entry/

 

Israel is protesting Hungary’s Eurovision entry, which includes condemnation against Operation Protective Edge and mentions the number of Palestinian children killed during the 2014 Israeli military campaign. 

Israeli Ambassador Ilan Mor turned to the Hungarian broadcasting authority, expressed his country’s reservations over the planned song and asked that the problematic segment be removed.

The Eurovision Song Contest will be held in May in Vienna, Austria. Hungary’s song this year, “Wars for Nothing,” will be performed by a group of three singers led by Hungarian singer-songwriter Boggie. The song has an anti-war message, focusing on the victims of violence and wars in the world. One of the captions in the song’s video refers to Operation Protective Edge, stating: “2014 – Gaza – two-thirds of the victims were civilians, including more than 500 children.”

Although Israel isn’t mentioned by name in the song, Ambassador Mor asked the Hungarian broadcasting authority to remove the sentence about the Gaza war, explaining that it is seen as an “inconvenient” political message against Israel.

[bouncebrigade]

It's much more likely that the US will fall into line with Netanyahu's position than vice versa. Whatever Obama might manage to do in the rest of his time in office, the next president will be much more pro-Israel and normal service will be resumed.

 

With Putin and ISIS strutting their stuff, next year's presidential election will be the first since 2004 that foreign policy and national security will be major campaign issues. The pro-Likud lobby and their allies in the media will pull out all the stops to lump the Palestinians in with ISIS as part of the global Islamist threat, and to paint any candidate who's critical of Netanyahu as undermining the war on terror. I expect the Republican candidate to take a staunch pro-Likud line to appeal to the Christian right, and the Democratic candidate to try and match them so they're not portrayed as soft on terrorism. And that kind of commitment will be difficult to go back on once in office, even if they were minded to. If the Republican wins, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he or she actively puts an impossible barrier in the way of a two-state solution, like making any negotiations conditional on Hamas renouncing its commitment to destroy Israel.

 

There will be no meaningful progress towards peace as long as Netanyahu is in office. He is the single biggest barrier to a peaceful solution, more so than Sharon, Arafat or Hamas ever were.

 

Spot on.

 

The Palestinian cause is nothing to do with the wider problem of Islamic extremism.  For example, Hamas condemned the Charlie Hebdo attacks (however, they didn't, but should have, condemned the kosher store attacks).  Despite being Sunni Muslims, Hamas have no affiliation with ISIS or Al Qaeda.  For a start, they are funded by Iran.

 

Hamas are clearly flawed, but I believe right-wing Israelis (and by extension their backers in the US) are a bigger stumbling block to peace and a two state soluation than Hamas ever will be.

[Jairzinho]

Hamas are useful to Israel.

[dennis tooth]

Hamas funded and created by Isreal. Sd therefore loves hamas the Isreali export.

Hezbol is Iran funded.

[bouncebrigade]

Hamas are useful to Israel.

 

Because they discredit the Palestinian cause?

[bouncebrigade]

Hamas funded and created by Isreal. Sd therefore loves hamas the Isreali export.

Hezbol is Iran funded.

 

Hamas is also Iran funded, or at least it was up until very recently.

[bouncebrigade]

Interesting:

 

https://fundrazr.com/campaigns/cvb44

[Jairzinho]

Because they discredit the Palestinian cause?

 

Yes, just in a "Look, they're throwing stones at us, so obviously we're well within our rights to keep them in a giant concentration camp and turn their children into a fine powder".

[bouncebrigade]

Yes, just in a "Look, they're throwing stones at us, so obviously we're well within our rights to keep them in a giant concentration camp and turn their children into a fine powder".

 

Yeah, too true that.  Shameful carry on, and no end in sight with "Bibi" being re-elected.

 

It really is a cesspit out there.

[lifetime fan]

 

Alan Hart, a former ITN and BBC Panorama correspondent and now an author covering Middle Eastern issues, spoke to Sputnik regarding the suggestion made by Republican US Senator, John McCain, that Israel should “go rogue” regarding the nearing nuclear deal with Iran.

 

“Does he really believe the propaganda nonsense that he speaks?” said Hart regarding McCain’s suggestion.

 

“If he does believe that then he is deluded to a point of clinical madness. Clearly he wants war, he wants to bomb Iran.”

 

Hart told Sputnik that he finds the whole thing peculiar because it is a farce. American and Western intelligence and their governments know that Iran is not developing nuclear weapons and Iran doesn’t want nuclear weapons.

 

He further noted that McCain, being the Head of Senate Armed Services committee, “McCain is backing a foreign state, and obstructs US policy — that is called treason”.

 

According to Hart, President Obama should instigate proceedings against McCain for treason, but he added that he knows it won’t happen.

Regarding Netanyahu, the former correspondent said that it seems that the Israeli president is a total believer of his own propaganda and that he is close to being “certifiably insane and that McCain is out of the same camp,” Hart told Sputnik.

 

“I think a deal is about to be breached with Iran, at least a tentative deal.” He added that he doesn’t think the Republicans can any longer guarantee to get a two thirds majority in Congress to override an Obama veto.

 

He suspected that there will be a tentative agreement and there will be an extension of a final deadline until the end of June. “I don’t expect the Earth to shake when they announce a tentative agreement but it will signal that there will be a definite agreement.”

 

 

 

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150401/1020338033.html#ixzz3WFJTkG6F

[lifetime fan]

As the P5+1 nuclear negotiations - ostensibly seeking to ensure a peaceful future for the Middle East - conclude, they were prefaced by a surprising announcement. On Tuesday, Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said that even if a deal was reached, the US reserves the right to bomb Iran.

A framework deal has been agreed upon by US Secretary of State John Kerry, Iran’s Foreign Minister Javad Zarif, and the other participating nations. But on Tuesday, when the outcome was far less certain, Defense Secretary Carter assured the public that no agreement would entirely eliminate a more aggressive alternative.

 

“The military option certainly will remain on the table,” Carter said on NBC’s Today program. “One of my jobs is to make sure all options are on the table.”

 

Military intervention would be necessary if Iran decided to break the deal, which sought to limit the number of uranium-enriching centrifuges Tehran would be allowed to operate. If it was discovered that the Islamic Republic was operating more centrifuges than agreed upon, and using that excess uranium to develop nuclear weapons, then an attack on those enrichment facilities could, theoretically, be an option.

 

He also stated that any agreement “can’t be based on trust, it has to be based on verification,” and that it must be “one that keeps us and the region safe. If it’s a good agreement to have, obviously it’s one worth waiting for.”

 

The new framework deal agreed upon by negotiators states that Tehran will be allowed to operate a single enrichment facility in Natanz, and in exchange, all nuclear-related sanctions against the nation will be lifted.

 

During his appearance, the Defense Secretary also took time to address other parts of what he called the “confusing, crazy-quilt region” of the Middle East. In reference to the chaos in Yemen, Carter said the United States would continue its counterterrorism operations, no matter the outcome of the Iranian negotiations.

 

Carters comments came just after Arizona Senator John McCain suggested that Israel “go rogue” and resist any deal that the negotiations might come to.

 

“The Israelis will need to chart their own path of resistance. On the Iranian nuclear deal, they may have to go rogue” McCain said on the Senate floor. “Let’s hope their warnings have not been mere bluffs.”

 

McCain’s words may encourage a nation already bitterly opposed to the negotiations. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been very vocal about his distrust of Iran’s intentions.

 

“This dangerous deal, as it appears to be emerging, bears out all of our fears, and even more than that,” Netanyahu said during a speech on Sunday, as the original March 31 deadline for a framework deal approached.

 

After meeting with Netanyahu on Sunday, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker John Boehner announced they would put forth a bill which would require President Obama to get the approval of Congress before any deal is officiated.

 

 

 

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/us/20150402/1020395567.html#ixzz3WFKNx3a2

[Stu Monty]

I found this article on the origins and development of ISIS and what it means for Saudi Arabia hugely interesting and informative. It's a long old read but you should get into it:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism-saudi-arabia_b_5717157.html

[dennis tooth]

Its a CIA saudi intel and mossad production starring jihad john.

 

Anyone remotely familiar with CIA death squads, al queada etc will recognise the undeniable CIA fingerprints all over these.