Lucas - Time to cut him some slack?

[Guest LFD]

I said to myself that I would read everyones rely before I make my own post, but the above two replies got under my skin.

 

Lucas for all intents and purposes has just recently adapted to the way we play. It has taken him a long time to get where he is today but he has imrpoved and is enjoying playing football. The problem is that you want him gone just because he hasnt done anything spectacular on the ball.

 

Well Lucas is no Alonso and is no Anderson, he is also no Gerrard and no Mascherano and by that I mean he hasnt got Alonsos vision, hasnt got Andersons speed, hasnt got Gerrards flair and hasnt got Mascheranos stamina. Lucas offers something completely different to the team......movement off the ball.

 

He can open space, has a solid first touch, has goog vision for through balls and can tackle. He has also slowly been developing a football brain; he runs back to defend, helps out his back four against counter attacks, is always available to pass to and is willing to attack the ball in the opposition box.

 

When he does have the ball in deep positions he keeps things simple by making simple passes that keeps the flow of the build up going, keeping things like I say simple. Higher up the field he is better at his vision and through balls, always looking up for an available teamate and making runs into the box.

 

But lets forget all that. Lets forget all the hard work that he has put it in, lets ignore all the support and confidence he has from his manager and club captain call him shit and list a whole bunch of reasons why we dont like him and kick him off the team.

 

Good post.

[Woo]

The only people who are being irrational are those who can't accept any valid criticism of Lucas. It's like if you say he's a poor player, that you want to murder his family, and then slap Rafa across the face with your cock. Jesus wept!

[RedKnight]

I think the club captain does exactly what a club captain does, but I think his thoughts on Lucas vary wildly to his words.

[DJLJ]

Lucas has been here two seasons and shown very little improvement. I think Fletcher is much better in every department than Lucas.

 

I don't even want to get into the whole Lucas argument again, as it's pointless.

 

I think Fletcher being ruled out of the CL final, thank god, was one of the key factors for Barca so easily overrun United in the midfield.

[Fowlers God]

He is shit. How many fucking games has he played and he lives off a good 20 minutes against Everton and a pass against Newcastle. It is not a good thing when out of 50+ games you can only pick two good moments against two shit sides.

 

Like the saussage advert, we only pick the two best bits, however they wouldnt make a fucking advert on this shit bag. Lucas = Cunt,

 

Babel is worse and doesnt get as much stick.....

for the record Babel = Cunt

[Guest LFD]

The only people who are being irrational are those who can't accept any valid criticism of Lucas. It's like if you say he's a poor player, that you want to murder his family, and then slap Rafa across the face with your cock. Jesus wept!

 

I think you will see that I have not only praised Lucas in this thread, I have also stated his weaknesses.

 

Plus I have also said when I think people have had valid criticisms of Lucas.

 

Maybe you need to read the thread?!

[Guest LFD]

I think the club captain does exactly what a club captain does, but I think his thoughts on Lucas vary wildly to his words.

 

That is a big assumption, with little evidience.

[RedKnight]

That is a big assumption, with little evidience.

 

There would be zero evidence in any type of media. It would be strictly off the record, so yeah, it would be an assumption as it stands.

[Woo]

I think you will see that I have not only praised Lucas in this thread, I have also stated his weaknesses.

 

Plus I have also said when I think people have had valid criticisms of Lucas.

 

Maybe you need to read the thread?!

 

If I was directing it at you, I would've quoted you. It was more directed at those who think we like criticising our own players just for the sake of it.

 

And I've read the thread, and cringed at a lot of what's been said.

[WhiskeyJar]

The only people who are being irrational are those who can't accept any valid criticism of Lucas. It's like if you say he's a poor player, that you want to murder his family, and then slap Rafa across the face with your cock. Jesus wept!

 

Its not irrational to judge Lucas under a certain degree of logic. Being in the first team will only help him improve and so far he hant done anything wrong to suggest that he should be out of the first team.

 

Its like Kuyt all over again.

 

I said it time and time again with the debates I had with Rashid. Kuyt is a very effective player. Lucas is becoming just that, effective yet unspectacular. The thing though with Lucas he is not the finished article and when he does imrpove fully we just might have a good player on our hands.

 

Well, provided our fans dont destroy him first.

[DJLJ]

Most of it from b3n and LFD in this thread is so bad, that even the boss needs to use smilies, that's how bad this thread is. Says it all really.

[Guest LFD]

Most of it from b3n and LFD in this thread is so bad, that even the boss needs to use smilies, that's how bad this thread is. Says it all really.

 

I'm sorry if people feel that way.

 

I just think it is better to be constructive than destructive, which I feel people are with Lucas.

[Woo]

Its not irrational to judge Lucas under a certain degree of logic. Being in the first team will only help him improve and so far he hant done anything wrong to suggest that he should be out of the first team.

 

Its like Kuyt all over again.

 

I said it time and time again with the debates I had with Rashid. Kuyt is a very effective player. Lucas is becoming just that, effective yet unspectacular. The thing though with Lucas he is not the finished article and when he does imrpove fully we just might have a good player on our hands.

 

Well, provided our fans dont destroy him first.

 

In your opinion of course, which is fair enough. Whilst in many other fans opinion, he hasn't shown enough to warrant a place in the side.

 

Plus, comparing Lucas to Dirk is both unfair and completely inaccurate.

[WhiskeyJar]

There would be zero evidence in any type of media. It would be strictly off the record, so yeah, it would be an assumption as it stands.

 

Best I could do on such a short time:

 

liverpoolfc.tv: GERRARD: SHOW YOUR SUPPORT FOR LUCAS

 

Steven Gerrard is confident Lucas Leiva can prove the doubters wrong and forge a successful career at Liverpool.

 

Gerrard, FWA Player of the Year, has been impressed by the manner in which the Brazilian youngster has stepped in throughout the campaign.

With Xabi Alonso absent at West Ham United on Saturday, Lucas was quietly effective in the central defensive midfield role alongside Javier Mascherano.

 

The 22-year-old has endured some difficult times this season but Gerrard believes Lucas is consistently repaying the faith of Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez.

 

"He's a young lad still learning his trade," said Gerrard.

 

"He does a lot of hard work that goes unnoticed in this team by many people, but we as players notice it.

 

"He's come in to a lot of big games where the manager has basically said to him 'it's sink or swim'. And for me he has swam.

 

"He's done very well for us when he's been called upon, and he's certainly got a bright future here," he added.

[WhiskeyJar]

In your opinion of course, which is fair enough. Whilst in many other fans opinion, he hasn't shown enough to warrant a place in the side.

 

Plus, comparing Lucas to Dirk is both unfair and completely inaccurate.

 

Agreed. I was refering to how I supported Kuyt against Rashid to how I am suporting Lucas now.

 

He will learn and will get better. I read everyones opinion on here and respect each and everyone. The biggest fear I have however is that the fans have already passed judgement on Lucas before the kid shows his true colours.

 

If we are but a little bit patient then we might see a good player.

[mht1892]

I agreee he has been one of our better players so far this season. Far better than Gerrard (up until last weekend possibly) and Torres and only behind Johnson for me.

 

There is also no point ln getting on his back now as nothing can be changed until January, or maybe when AA gets back. He has got his chance now whether you like it or not and it is surely in all our interests to get behind him and hope he can succeed.

 

What :eek::eek:

 

are you taking the piss ??

 

STEP AWAY FROM THE CRACKPIPE !!!

 

Just say no, drugs are baaaaaaaad m'kay.

[Dirk]

Lucas is the boring cousin who talks about transport and radiator valves.

[RedKnight]

Best I could do on such a short time:

 

liverpoolfc.tv: GERRARD: SHOW YOUR SUPPORT FOR LUCAS

 

Steven Gerrard is confident Lucas Leiva can prove the doubters wrong and forge a successful career at Liverpool.

 

Gerrard, FWA Player of the Year, has been impressed by the manner in which the Brazilian youngster has stepped in throughout the campaign.

With Xabi Alonso absent at West Ham United on Saturday, Lucas was quietly effective in the central defensive midfield role alongside Javier Mascherano.

 

The 22-year-old has endured some difficult times this season but Gerrard believes Lucas is consistently repaying the faith of Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez.

 

"He's a young lad still learning his trade," said Gerrard.

 

"He does a lot of hard work that goes unnoticed in this team by many people, but we as players notice it.

 

"He's come in to a lot of big games where the manager has basically said to him 'it's sink or swim'. And for me he has swam.

 

"He's done very well for us when he's been called upon, and he's certainly got a bright future here," he added.

 

I don't understand your point, I said Gerrard has said all the things a captain should say in public about Lucas. You've shown me an article that does exactly that.

 

I said that I doubt that privately Gerrard thinks the same and that you won't find anything to that effect in the media.

[Woo]

Agreed. I was refering to how I supported Kuyt against Rashid to how I am suporting Lucas now.

 

He will learn and will get better. I read everyones opinion on here and respect each and everyone. The biggest fear I have however is that the fans have already passed judgement on Lucas before the kid shows his true colours.

 

If we are but a little bit patient then we might see a good player.

 

Yeah but there's a reason Rashid has been banned three times off here, and nearly every other LFC forum, so again, a bit pointless.

 

I don't know exactly what you want from the fans? Bar the odd few bellends who booed him at the game when he came on, the fans are very supportive of him at the games, and even more so after the whole booing debacle.

 

Discussing him on the internet is going to make fuck all difference to how much time he's given to prove himself. He's into his 3rd season here, and he'll soon be approaching 100 appearances for the club. I'd say that's patient enough. I think that's time enough to show adequate signs of improvement. Yet, the only improvement I've seen from Lucas, is that's he's bulked up a bit.

 

I've said many times, similar to RK, that I think he's a good player, who just isn't suited to the pace of the English game. He'd be perfect for the Italian league. It doesn't make him a bad player, but it's pointless him continuing to play for us as he's not going to get much better than he is. He can't adapt to the style of play over here.

[mht1892]

He can open space, has a solid first touch, has goog vision for through balls and can tackle.

 

Has good vision ?? he can pass sideways and thats about it.... his good vision for through balls happened once against Newcastle, personally I think his passing is sloppy and he loses the ball alot in key areas.

 

I agree his tackling has improved from what I have seen so far this season but normally hes very rash with his challenges, Wigan last season away was fucking woeful.. while I will always support him and hope he improves each and every game I do not think he is the answer, him and Masher simply do not work.

 

While Aquilani is unfit we have them two playing alongside each other and it is very flat and predictable because neither of them can pick out that killer pass.

 

In all honesty I think Aurelio would do a better job in midefield than Lucas, he played there a few times last season/season before when needed and he did well, his passing is quality as well.

[zigackly]

If we are but a little bit patient then we might see a good player.

 

How patient are we supposed to be, given that he has had two seasons in this league and still looks distinctly average? At the age of 22, we should be seeing something more than blue sky potential in the lad.

[Whelan]

Discussing him on the internet is going to make fuck all difference to how much time he's given to prove himself. He's into his 3rd season here, and he'll soon be approaching 100 appearances for the club. I'd say that's patient enough. I think that's time enough to show adequate signs of improvement. Yet, the only improvement I've seen from Lucas, is that's he's bulked up a bit.

 

I've said many times, similar to RK, that I think he's a good player, who just isn't suited to the pace of the English game. He'd be perfect for the Italian league. It doesn't make him a bad player, but it's pointless him continuing to play for us as he's not going to get much better than he is. He can't adapt to the style of play over here.

 

I think you pretty much describe how I feel about his ability, but he has played reasonably well this season, he has (in my opinion), he has offered more, as he had to, he gets forward a lot more, and getting involved a lot more, he still is not good enough for a first team choice.

 

Which is why he will remain third choice, sorry but how can someone who is third choice attract so much vective is beyond me, I can understand if Rafa was playing him ahead of Alonso or Aquiliani but he isn't, by buying Aquiliani Rafa is stating quite categorically that he doesn't think Lucas is good enough for the first team.

 

Why compare him to Fletcher? why not Anderson, who Lucas is better than, and Mikel who again, Lucas is better than or Diaby who Lucas is better than.

[Red Phoenix]

He needs a break from playing every game? He's played four games. At 22 Gerrard was one of our key players and Alonso was playing in a Sociedad team challenging at the top of La Liga.

 

I don't buy your "being played" argument (if one could call it that) either.

 

Yep, I meant that I don't think he's good enough yet basically. He might be if he's played differently, but the way he's going now he doesn't seem to be fitting in properly. It's not about him needing a break because he might be tired, I meant that I don't think he's good enough to be playing every game in the center of midfield while we're hoping we're still in with a chance of going for the title. It could be a lot longer before he can adjust/be good enough to play in the PL for us the way Rafa wants him to, or it might not happen at all.

 

Basically I don't agree with this "if he isn't good enough now he never will be" at the age of 22. Yep, Gerrard and Alonso were doing well at that age, but some players take longer to arrive.

 

And this isn't me being one of the people that will defend/justify Lucas no matter what, I'm genuinely unsure if he'll make it here, but at the same time aren't going to completely write him off. I'd personally like to see him subbed, Spearing brought on sometimes instead, but mainly have Yossi, Kuyt and Riera in midfield/on the wings, then Gerrard and Torres upfront in a 4-1-3-2.

 

Think I'm gonna leave all this Lucas stuff too, it's getting really boring.

[RedKnight]

You like to hedge your bets, don't you.

[WhiskeyJar]

I don't understand your point, I said Gerrard has said all the things a captain should say in public about Lucas. You've shown me an article that does exactly that.

 

I said that I doubt that privately Gerrard thinks the same and that you won't find anything to that effect in the media.

 

Well I retract the article as I assumed you were making a different point.

 

Yeah but there's a reason Rashid has been banned three times off here, and nearly every other LFC forum, so again, a bit pointless.

 

I don't know exactly what you want from the fans? Bar the odd few bellends who booed him at the game when he came on, the fans are very supportive of him at the games, and even more so after the whole booing debacle.

 

Discussing him on the internet is going to make fuck all difference to how much time he's given to prove himself. He's into his 3rd season here, and he'll soon be approaching 100 appearances for the club. I'd say that's patient enough. I think that's time enough to show adequate signs of improvement. Yet, the only improvement I've seen from Lucas, is that's he's bulked up a bit.

 

I've said many times, similar to RK, that I think he's a good player, who just isn't suited to the pace of the English game. He'd be perfect for the Italian league. It doesn't make him a bad player, but it's pointless him continuing to play for us as he's not going to get much better than he is. He can't adapt to the style of play over here.

 

Maybe, in my experience though when I do actually sit down to talk to Liverpool fans, the first thing they state that would improve our first team is to get rid of Lucas, not replacing him but to get rid. Isnt that a tad bit unfair?

 

And I agree with the 100 appearances statement. He should of been well into the swing of things by now, but I am staying positive as I have seen him do all the right the things and I expect good things of him in the future.

 

Its just the way I see Lucas.

 

Has good vision ?? he can pass sideways and thats about it.... his good vision for through balls happened once against Newcastle' date=' personally I think his passing is sloppy and he loses the ball alot in key areas.

 

I agree his tackling has improved from what I have seen so far this season but normally hes very rash with his challenges, Wigan last season away was fucking woeful.. while I will always support him and hope he improves each and every game I do not think he is the answer, him and Masher simply do not work.

 

While Aquilani is unfit we have them two playing alongside each other and it is very flat and predictable because neither of them can pick out that killer pass.

 

In all honesty I think Aurelio would do a better job in midefield than Lucas, he played there a few times last season/season before when needed and he did well, his passing is quality as well.[/quote']

 

I agree that Mascherano and Lucas together make a falt partnership. Its why Rafa bought Mascherano off for Voronin against Bolton and left Lucas on. With that move, it proves to me at least that Lucas is trusted with a much more attacking role that that of Mascherano.

 

With Aquilani fit I expect him and Lucas to be competing for the same spot on the team and I do expect Aquilani to get the nod.