Something special occured tonight

[isr]

Well done, reasonable discussion without abuse is not capable with you.

 

But anyway, the point of the thread was just to state that the sort of attitude displayed by the team and seemingly Benitez is the sort of shit I want to see from us more often.

 

From the outset I knew Rafa wanted to win the game, the team proved it. There was a togetherness you hardly ever see, and the way Yossi celebrated kind of hammered home the point.

 

Ah shove it where the sun doesn't shine, you fair weather merchant (oh look, I've just proved your first sentence. How clever you are). The real point of this thread was so that you could just say how much of a bandwagon jumper you are.

 

Its the same Rafa, the same team, the same players who have brought us to 2nd in the League - while at the same time enduring shit from the likes of you. "Wanted to win the game"?? They want to win every game.

 

Why don't you try SUPPORTING them every game.

 

Instead of just when we beat Europe's most succesful team in their own backyard.

[The 5th Benitel]

Brilliant result. Our tactics suit those games perfectly. It's just a shame he hasn't worked out a different formula for the league.

 

It would sum us up if we drew agasint City at home, beat Madrid away and then dropped more points at Boro. Although i actually have more confidence when we play away these days.

[Unrighteous]

The only reason Rafa is really copping it from all corners is because he is, inch by inch, season after season, game after game, is slowly turning Liverpool into a credible force again. In Europe. At home. Its real. You only have to look at the "pundits" queueing up to slag him off. The London press falling over themselves to drag up zonal marking and rotation ad nauseum.

 

Deep down, they know it. Hence the reaction.

 

Fuck them. You're supposed to be Liverpool fans. What the fuck is the matter with you lot?

 

I usually am a big fan of when you post ISR, but that just isn't the case right now. We are only challenging because the Arsenal and Chelsea have had a meltdown.

 

We've basically lucked our way into 2nd place, and we all know it, even though some of us might not admit it.

 

We've taken a step backwards, and last summer's transfer period was an absolute waste of time, valuable time we cannot afford to waste because every summer Utd improve their squad.

 

We are not playing like a club challenging for the league, and EVERYONE can see that.

 

Opposition just are not scared of us, and they should be...

[bigbak]

i think we have been doing this all season, its the breaking down of teams that we are not doing in the league, i have not seen anything new tonight that i have not seen all season, closing down, determination, it's always there.

 

Spot on. It's easy playing against teams that want to win.

 

There are so many dross teams in the Premiership that hang in for a draw and referees that bottle penalty decisions that it's going to be impossible to win it without a different approach.

 

I'd give no points for a 0-0. 1 point for a score draw. That would liven it up.

[redrosetints]

Martin Samuel: Yossi is head man - Benayoun the unlikely hero gives Benitez shock victory

 

by MARTIN SAMUEL

Last updated at 2:00 AM on 26th February 2009

 

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Real Madrid 0 Liverpool 1

 

The ball swung in from the right and Yossi Benayoun, slight, spindly, not the sort of person normally associated with heroic matchwinning headers in the Bernabeu stadium, was there to meet it.

 

Oh, stop dawdling, the lot of you. Give the man his contract and let him get on with it. Rafael Benitez wins matches against the elite clubs of Europe with the finest components of his team absent.

 

Find someone else who can do that, find someone else who can take this group of players and elevate them to the height of victory over Real Madrid away and it would make sense to be acting against Rafa.

Benayoun

 

High and mighty: Benayoun eludes the Real defence to head the away goal

Liverpool's Yossi Benayoun

 

They are made for each other, Liverpool and Benitez, right now. Liverpool do not have the wealth of their rivals but in Benitez they have a manager who works around it. He wheels and deals in the transfer market and he sends out teams with a brief that can be executed to the last detail. This was one such performance.

 

Without Steven Gerrard until three minutes from the end, with Fernando Torres incapacitated after a first-half injury, Benitez somehow conjured one of those old-fashioned European smash and grab raids, the teams separated by a late goal from a set-piece. It was not pretty to watch, as these things rarely are, but it was damnably effective. If Liverpool could only repeat this form at home in the League, Manchester United would not be feeling so smug.

 

The plain facts state that Benayoun met a free-kick from Fabio Aurelio in the 82nd minute to win Liverpool the game. The reality is that Benitez's team overcame hammer blows that would have ruined a lesser team and pulled off one of the shocks of the European season. Benayoun is an unlikely matchwinner.

 

He does not always make the team, indeed there have been occasions when he has considered leaving for first-team football at an inferior club. He stays because Benitez's revolving door policy always gives a squad man a break. This was some break, and some way of taking it.

 

As the players warmed down in a stadium deserted but for jubilant Liverpudlians, each player got a polite round of applause as he left the field. It seemed to sum up the team ethic behind Benitez's success.

Liverpool's Jamie Carragher

 

Thick of the action: Liverpool's Jamie Carragher tangles with Arjen Robben

 

He truly is a great coach, because he is a problem solver; that is why he thrives in the big games. He will pay the same attention to detail when the teams meet at Anfield, and will surely warn against thinking the tie is over, but there is an inescapable feeling that much of the work here is done. Madrid looked like a team with the stuffing knocked out of them. By the end, fights were breaking out among their own fans.

 

Real Madrid have always been looked upon as Benitez's club, even if he has not always been their greatest fan since leaving. There will still be those who will view this match, mischievously, as a job application. Better then that Liverpool get that contract signed, even if it means meeting him halfway on transfer matters. After all, surely the man who can come to Real Madrid and win is the best judge of what his team needs next season. And if he again produces a list of transfer priorities, this time start at the top. What is the worst that can happen?

 

This was not the greatest match, but it was a grand occasion. In heaven, all football is played in a celestial Bernabeu between a team wearing an all-white strip and another dressed solely in red, just because it looks right. It is in a cold corner of hell, however, that such a contest takes place with one of the best players imprisoned on the sidelines and another operating on one leg with merely 25 minutes gone.

 

So it was for Gerrard and Torres, who would have had a major influence on the game, had fate only allowed. As it was, when Liverpool scored, neither was on the field.

 

To a large extent that enhances Benitez's triumph, but it also saddens the spirit that Torres, who yields to nobody bar Sir Alex Ferguson in his distaste for all things from the white half of Madrid, was denied his big moment. After one break from a long Jose Reina kick, from which he forced a fine save from Iker Casillas, Torres was next seen seeking medical attention.

 

He lasted until the 61st minute but was rarely a threat and his frustration showed with a booking for a foul on Lassana Diarra.

 

Benayoun was the pick of it for Liverpool, with Xabi Alonso and Jamie Carragher not far behind, but the most dangerous player on the field, and the one Liverpool will need to watch most closely at Anfield, was Arjen Robben. He has plenty of history with Liverpool, Benitez and, most particularly, Reina from his Chelsea days, and he played here like a man with a score to settle. Like Cristiano Ronaldo in the San Siro stadium on Tuesday, however, his performance lacked its crowning glory of a goal.

 

A 30-yard shot was flicked over by Reina after 70 minutes and Albert Riera almost turned a cross into his own net at the end of the first half, but Robben remained frustrated. He was Real's star, though, and at the heart of all their best work. He played the pass of the match, for sure, its only fault being that it came too early, in the fourth minute, and seemed to catch its target, Raul, in repose and he wasted his chance with a weak shot.

 

 

Liverpool's best moves early on came from long balls but that little ploy ended when Torres went lame. Benayoun made a game attempt to fill in and, indeed, forced a brave save from Casillas, but it was not his strong point and Liverpool became less direct after that, with Alonso working the midfield expertly and even throwing an attempt at Goal of the Season into the bargain.

 

It came a minute before half-time when, sighting Casillas off his line, he tried one of those extraordinary lobs from inside his half, an echo of the one he scored at Luton Town. Except this was not Kenilworth Road, but the Bernabeu, and were it not for Casillas's desperate recovery, he would have pulled it off.

 

What a moment that would have been. Not that Benayoun's winner was second best, mind you.

[Antynwa]

Why don't you try SUPPORTING them every game.

 

Instead of just when we beat Europe's most succesful team in their own backyard.

 

It's called praising a team when they do well, and criticising when they don't.

 

I've been to every home game but two, and a few away games this season. Don't tell me how to support my team, because I do so to the best of my ability.

 

I'm delighted with tonights win, and I just want to hammer home the point that last night was the epitome of what we have been lacking in games where the going gets tough.

 

It was beautiful to watch.

[Boomerang]

The whole team played as a unit and were hungry for the result.Rafas tactics were spot on again.Great win Liverpool in their backyard.

[isr]

I usually am a big fan of when you post ISR, but that just isn't the case right now. We are only challenging because the Arsenal and Chelsea have had a meltdown.

 

We've basically lucked our way into 2nd place, and we all know it, even though some of us might not admit it.

 

We've taken a step backwards, and last summer's transfer period was an absolute waste of time, valuable time we cannot afford to waste because every summer Utd improve their squad.

 

We are not playing like a club challenging for the league, and EVERYONE can see that.

 

Opposition just are not scared of us, and they should be...

 

Unrighteous, I don't understand that. Wasn't the whole point of the league (and yes, the season isn't over yet) that you can't "luck" your way into 1st, 2nd, 4th or whatever.

 

Its too easy to compare point tallies across seasons, and rather meaningless as well. The relative competitiveness of a division doesn't always stay the same. This year, we have a VERY competitive league. Everyone's beating everyone, and 3 wins on the bounce are all that seperate the bottom team from the top half of the table.

 

But in the end, the best team comes out 1st. The 2nd best team finishes 2nd. And so on, and so forth.

 

It seems that under Rafa, everything we achieve is somehow down to luck - and we must appease the Gods to compensate.

 

2005 CL - luck. (before this, winning the CL was the peak achievement for any club. For the first - and only - time, in the summer of 2005, winning the CL apparantly became just like "winning another cup, so what")

2006 FA Cup - luck.

2007 reaching CL final after penalties win in semi's. Luck.

This season: winning so many matches with late goals. Luck.

 

Yet, when others do it, its different.

 

ManUtd win the CL with late goals in 99. Not luck - it was destiny.

ManUtd win the CL on penalties. Not luck - they're just the best.

ManUtd win so many matches 1-0. Not luck - just solid stuff. Well played.

ManUtd win so many extra points with late goals. Not luck - just a demonstration of how they are true champions.

[Xherdan]

I dont think 'somthing special' happened last night, but we did get a good result away against one of the biggest teams in Europe. To suggest it is something more is uberoptimism.

[Antynwa]

I'm not in your head so can only guess at what the "Point" of your thread was - to me it seemed like a post that was simply trying to justify your previous position and get yourself back on-side.

 

Seems to me that you think "suport" means to 'slag, moan, bitch and whinge' when things aren't going too good and to try and bask in the glory when things are going good.

 

Just my opinion like.

 

The point of my thread is that last night is what we have been lacking, and what we need to win the league.

 

The only side I've ever been on is the side of Liverpool Football Club. This isn't a thread to repeat old debates, but my stance hasn't changed.

 

When I go to the game I sing my heart out, granted I can't do that much anymore since I'm a steward, but when I go to any Liverpool game as a fan it's all I ever do.

 

My point is simple, play like that and manage like that when the going gets tough and we will achieve epic success.

[The 5th Benitel]

I thought there was every chance we'd get a result last night although the way we completely shut them down was beyond my expectations.

 

The mad thing is i also think there is every chance we wont get the result we're after at either Boro or Sunderland and that's the problem.

 

Benitez is a genius in Europe but the league is a completely different kettle of fish.

[Get Carter]

Last night showed all the pro's and cons of Rafa's management.

 

He is the master at winning games when the opposition bring the game to Liverpool but when the game has to be taken to the opposition that is were he fails. He knows how to not lose a game against bigs teams in the Champions League and the League (This season anyway) but he does not know how to win games against poorer opposition who adopt a no lose policy against Rafa.

[redrosetints]

It was very comfortable - we were hardly ever exposed.

 

One thing has to be said though. The quality of Italian and Spanish teams is pretty low compared to the top English teams. We tend to get reeled in by the hype over here - they're playing in a hot country, they're permatanned and gorgeous and they've got long hair - they must be fantastic. Erm, no. They're decidedly average. I'm not being complacent here, I'm not saying they're absolute cack, but I don't think they're in the same league (I know) as our big four.

 

I think thats a fair assesment, but wasnt that also true in the 70's and 80's when we ruled europe ? Englsh teams won it for 8 of 9 years, it was the boss league then, it didnt detract from our nights in Rome or wherever ?

 

The likes of Inter, Madrid, Narca and Juve are way ahead of the teams outside our top 4, just look at our illustrious neighbours european endeavour recently.

[ScottyT]

Last night showed all the pro's and cons of Rafa's management.

 

He is the master at winning games when the opposition bring the game to Liverpool but when the game has to be taken to the opposition that is were he fails. He knows how to not lose a game against bigs teams in the Champions League and the League (This season anyway) but he does not know how to win games against poorer opposition who adopt a no lose policy against Rafa.

 

I think that's slightly over the top. Our struggles at home against weaker sides has only crept in over the last couple of seasons. Before that our home form was as good as it got and we had no major problems over powering the perceived smaller teams.

 

Whether that's to do with these teams being a lot more organised, a lack of quality on our part, or the the expectations of a title race is open to debate, but I don't think it's a case of him not knowing how to win against them.

[Get Carter]

I meant its not so much a case of him not knowing how to win more a case of him being more afraid of losing than actually going out and winning the game against the so called lesser teams.

[Whelan]

Am I the only one who thinks this is a really, really Gay title ?

[redrosetints]

I've been saying it for 5 seasons. I'm not and never have been crying out for "the title or the sack", the results in the league this season are not my gripe either. If we get 80pts that will be a good season whether we win the title or not.

 

It's Rafa the political animal that moves me to want him out. He is a cold, manipulative, trouble causing control freak. He's been the same wherever he has been. He has to realise that he is not the dictator at LFC, accept the situation or go. His continual off the record briefings to the press are the biggest cause of disharmony at the club and 90% off the fans I know are sick of it and know who is the cause of it all.

 

Hi Hermes, good to see you posting, some intersting points there.

 

I think you're correct Rafa is a very political animal, but hasn't much of this been out of necessity ? He does seem to be quite bloody minded, but then that would apply to all great managers and what manager would have survived and done the job Rafa has without his ability to play the political game ?

 

I could see most managers wiltingunder the pressure for on field success, whilst trying to tiptoe through the minefield that is our ownership, CEO war.

 

I think he is the only one with the best interests of the club at heart, since his success and ours, on the field and inextricably linked.

 

When and if the owners and Parry/Moores go, then i think we need to look at Rafas position, to see if once he has the contract he desires he continues to play some of these games. But on the field we are miles ahead of 04 in terms of domestic and european play and inspite of the off field distractions.

[redrosetints]

It's a great win but this competition is made for us. our style is perfect..sit deep,defend like demons and then nick a goal. We can do that all day.

 

The problem is the league isn't a 2 legged knockout comp or we'd piss that too.

 

If we'd been offered 2nd in the league at the end of Feb and a 1-0 lead over Madrid in the CL, would you have taken it bakc in August ? If you were then told Torres would miss half the season and that Gerrard would have two seperate injuries that kept him out for several games and that we'd beat untied with neither of them starting and Madrid, with neither on the pitch when we scored, you'd have taken it.

 

Take it now, embrace it, enjoy it.

[Xherdan]

Am I the only one who thinks this is a really, really Gay title ?

 

If that title was 'Something special occured tonight in Mark Lawrensons arse' then that would be gay.

[Unrighteous]

Unrighteous, I don't understand that. Wasn't the whole point of the league (and yes, the season isn't over yet) that you can't "luck" your way into 1st, 2nd, 4th or whatever.

 

Its too easy to compare point tallies across seasons, and rather meaningless as well. The relative competitiveness of a division doesn't always stay the same. This year, we have a VERY competitive league. Everyone's beating everyone, and 3 wins on the bounce are all that seperate the bottom team from the top half of the table.

 

But in the end, the best team comes out 1st. The 2nd best team finishes 2nd. And so on, and so forth.

 

It seems that under Rafa, everything we achieve is somehow down to luck - and we must appease the Gods to compensate.

 

2005 CL - luck. (before this, winning the CL was the peak achievement for any club. For the first - and only - time, in the summer of 2005, winning the CL apparantly became just like "winning another cup, so what")

2006 FA Cup - luck.

2007 reaching CL final after penalties win in semi's. Luck.

This season: winning so many matches with late goals. Luck.

 

Yet, when others do it, its different.

 

ManUtd win the CL with late goals in 99. Not luck - it was destiny.

ManUtd win the CL on penalties. Not luck - they're just the best.

ManUtd win so many matches 1-0. Not luck - just solid stuff. Well played.

ManUtd win so many extra points with late goals. Not luck - just a demonstration of how they are true champions.

 

I am not talking point tallies... I am talking that ticket holders are feeling ripped after leaving Anfield because they've just paid £40 for a yawnfest of shite football. I don't give two fucking shits if we are 2nd or 4th or 14th... when you are playing shite football, its not entertaining, and it's not deserving of the three points.

 

Home games are excrutiating for me, right now. The players look like they aren't bothered, and one good performance in Europe doesn't change this...

[t1971]

I dont think 'somthing special' happened last night, but we did get a good result away against one of the biggest teams in Europe. To suggest it is something more is uberoptimism.

 

Dont think it was something special. Its what we have come to expect from Rafa in europe and what i thought would happen when the draw was made.

[Whelan]

The problem with saying the football isnt good is that it is personal and can't be used as a general criticism.

I for one am not bored. My barometer is still Houlliers last season, I went home and away and for the life of me couldn't not remember enjoying a match! possible exceptions the derby and man u away. I dont think this even compares to that season, I actually think we are quite good to watch at times, solid most of it, and yes poor at times. I would argue that is the case for most teams, don't forget Arsenal have been held a few times this year (obviously because they are in transition!!!)

 

The trouble with saying your'e bored is that it can be an easy get out, we are top and in the final of the FA cup, but I am bored!

We have won the league and reached the champions league final, but I dont like the way we play!

 

I blame wall to wall coverage, ten years ago the got the odd match and the rest was highlights!

Edited February 26, 2009 by Whelan
sense

[Unrighteous]

The problem with saying the football isnt good is that it is personal and can't be used as a general criticism.

I for one am not bored. My barometer is still Houlliers last season, I went home and away and for the life of me couldn't not remember enjoying a match! possible exceptions the derby and man u away. I dont think this even compares to that season, I actually think we are quite good to watch at times, solid most of it, and yes poor at times. I would argue that is the case for most teams, don't forget Arsenal have been held a few times this year (obviously because they are in transition!!!)

 

The trouble with saying your'e bored is that it can be an easy get out, we are top and in the final of the FA cup, but I am bored!

We have won the league and reached the champions league final, but I dont like the way we play!

 

I blame wall to wall coverage, ten years ago the got the odd match and the rest was highlights!

 

To be honest, that is what this season has felt like for me... Houllier's last.

 

The football has taken a massive step backwards since the end of last season... This is CLEAR. It's not the football is providing us with 2nd place, it's that we are 2nd despite the shite football.

[Whelan]

To be honest, that is what this season has felt like for me... Houllier's last.

 

The football has taken a massive step backwards since the end of last season... This is CLEAR. It's not the football is providing us with 2nd place, it's that we are 2nd despite the shite football.

 

 

Fair do's, as you can see It isn't for me.

 

The non-footballing issues are why I haven't enjoyed going as much this year, every dropped point and I think of the criticism of Rafa and dread waking up one day and reading he has gone! I realise other's dont see it that way, but I am very pro-rafa, I can even the see the good in Ngog!!!

[redrosetints]

Well done, reasonable discussion without abuse is not capable with you.

 

But anyway, the point of the thread was just to state that the sort of attitude displayed by the team and seemingly Benitez is the sort of shit I want to see from us more often.

 

From the outset I knew Rafa wanted to win the game, the team proved it. There was a togetherness you hardly ever see, and the way Yossi celebrated kind of hammered home the point.

 

I'm not saying Rafa should stay, I still want him to go along with the board, but this is the sort of performance I've been craving, I acknowledge Europe is Rafa's forte, and that we will probably fuck up at the Riverside.

 

But this is what I mean when grabbing something from the balls, this is what has been missing, and the lack of what happened last night is probably why we aren't going to win the league.

 

And if we can compare and contrast our worst game v Stoke Way and our best game v Real Madrid away. Benitez put out a team that showed he wanted to win the game last night, not v Stoke.

 

You've got to enjoy moments like this, and no doubt I'll be moaning if we draw or lose at the Riverside, but as I said, show what we showed last night when the going gets tough and we will win this league.

 

But ISR is correct. You call for balls amongst the players, when its clear that alot of fans need to start showing some and no disrespect you too.

 

You have continually criticised Rafa recently, which is fair enough if thats your opinion, but then after last night you see something different.

 

Last night wasnt any different to Barca, Inter, Juve, Chelsea etc you must have either had complete memory loss or not paid any attention to those previous games. Its one of the things RAfa is cleary very good at.

 

Its exactly because of these nights, that some fans feel they want Rafa to stay, take the european glory, while he slowly solves the million piece puzzle that is, win the premiership without being able to just spend and solve as United or Chelsea do.

 

In Fergies time he has rebuilt it (succesfully) 3 times. From the Pallister/Bruce/Schmuk/Kanchelskis/Keane and Cantona days, through Schmuck/Stam/Keane/Beckham/Van Nistelroy and Sheringham days to now, where he has Vidic/Ferdinand/Carrick/Rooney/Ronaldo/Berbatov and Tevez. In between each evolution, they have suffered, indeed it took him 7 years to get that first eam correct.

 

Rafa got the best of his inherited side and has now just about got his first team sorted. If you look through the side, you have many players still new to the club and or their position. Skrtel, Arbeloa, Mascherano, Kuyt, Gerrard, Torres and Reira have either been with the club less than two full seasons or are playing in new positions. We've missed Torres and Gerrard this season for chunks of games and yet we are in a position now we've not been in for 20 years.

 

You want the team to show some balls, well show some yourself and back them, give them your support.