ACADEMY ARTICLE

[dave u]

Seriously, Dave et al, what does your gut tell you about Piet Hamberg? I did the Google thing and have to admit that betting on him seems like a good bet. Do you see it differently (BTW Don't read TLW so am probably more ignorant than most :( )

 

He seemed like a good appointment at the time, but based on everything I've heard, it hasn't worked out and he's not up to the job. How much of it is down to him and how much is down to the politics is open to question. Whoever comes in to do that job is on a hiding to nothing, because unless it's Rafa's appointment he just won't work with them.

[PaulMcC]

What's he been doing wrong at the Academy, Dave? Hamberg, that is.

[Unrighteous]

He doesn't have a point, he's acting just as badly as they are. I understand why he's pissed off, but he's fucking around with young lads' careers because he's playing politics with Parry.

 

Yeah but it's a hellova powerful way to tell the yank cunts that the academy isn't working and it's a waste of money until changes are made.

 

I can't say that I agree he should be fucking around with lads' careers but Rafa is known for looking at players like Chess pieces... this just reinforces that stance.

[dave u]

What's he been doing wrong at the Academy, Dave? Hamberg, that is.

 

I don't know mate, I'm not really close enough to the situation to say. I just keep hearing from people who are better placed than me that he's out of his depth and has become more and more detached from it all. He's basically just seeing out his contract now.

[dave u]

Yeah but it's a hellova powerful way to tell the yank cunts that the academy isn't working and it's a waste of money until changes are made.

 

I can't say that I agree he should be fucking around with lads' careers but Rafa is known for looking at players like Chess pieces... this just reinforces that stance.

 

He's really not in a position to tell them about wasting money, but it's all in the article and I'm not going to keep repeating myself. Let's just say that his 'Melwood Academy' hasn't come cheap.

[WaltonRed]

So Dave do you think Rafa should have the ultimate say on who runs the academy or are you in the no camp?

[dave u]

So Dave do you think Rafa should have the ultimate say on who runs the academy or are you in the no camp?

 

If he's going to keep on acting the way he is then they may as well let him appoint whoever he likes, and at least then he has no excuses if he doesn't bring anyone through.

 

It can't carry on the way it is, because if he doesn't like the appointment he'll just refuse to work with him the way he's done with Heighway and Hamberg, and it will continue to cost us a lot of money.

 

In an ideal world I wouldn't let him control the Academy, but the alternative is letting Parry pick who runs it, and thats no good either.

 

It won't happen, but I'd love to see Dalglish take over the running of the Academy. By that I mean let him oversee everything and appoint all the staff and set the policies there. He always took a big interest in it when he was manager (it wasn't 'the Academy' then of course, but he knew all the kids names even down to the 9 and 10 year olds), and knows what is expected.

 

More importantly, Dalglish is probably the one person that Rafa wouldn't be able to walk all over and treat like shit. He'd have to just get on with it and work with him, instead of against him. If Dalglish was running the Academy no way would Rafa be pulling the shit he is at the moment, as he just wouldn't be allowed.

 

That's just my opinion though, and I can see why it may be impractical, and Dalglish probably wouldn't want to do it anyway.

[Maldini]

What about Roy Evans for another option?

 

I think it's probably a sign that the writing's on the wall for Hamberg that we haven't opened that school he was on about when he first arrived.

 

John Owen's latest academy article has a couple of interesting snippets in it. He says Man City operate an under 17 team as well as an under 18 team, I suppose this gives them a chance to get more games for their younger players. If you look at the countries where youth football is thriving they tend to have teams for every year, sometimes more than one. We have one team here for the whole academy!

 

He also mentioned that he was at a meeting of all the heads of academies to discuss possible changes. Guess who headed it? Howard FUCKING Wilkinson! Do they never learn?

[Durango]

If he's going to keep on acting the way he is then they may as well let him appoint whoever he likes, and at least then he has no excuses if he doesn't bring anyone through.

 

It can't carry on the way it is, because if he doesn't like the appointment he'll just refuse to work with him the way he's done with Heighway and Hamberg, and it will continue to cost us a lot of money.

 

In an ideal world I wouldn't let him control the Academy, but the alternative is letting Parry pick who runs it, and thats no good either.

 

It won't happen, but I'd love to see Dalglish take over the running of the Academy. By that I mean let him oversee everything and appoint all the staff and set the policies there. He always took a big interest in it when he was manager (it wasn't 'the Academy' then of course, but he knew all the kids names even down to the 9 and 10 year olds), and knows what is expected.

 

More importantly, Dalglish is probably the one person that Rafa wouldn't be able to walk all over and treat like shit. He'd have to just get on with it and work with him, instead of against him. If Dalglish was running the Academy no way would Rafa be pulling the shit he is at the moment, as he just wouldn't be allowed.

 

That's just my opinion though, and I can see why it may be impractical, and Dalglish probably wouldn't want to do it anyway.

How come Rafa gets on fine with Malcolm Elias?

[Dicko]

How come Rafa gets on fine with Malcolm Elias?

 

Yes this seems odd.

I know Rafa has had problems with the academy since day one, after all it was written into his contract that he'd have fuck all say in it.

 

Him and Heighway I don't think saw eye to eye. Although I'd love to have been there when Rafa lost his rag with him and put the arrogant cunt firmly in his fucking place.

[peekay]

Yes this seems odd.

I know Rafa has had problems with the academy since day one, after all it was written into his contract that he'd have fuck all say in it.

 

Him and Heighway I don't think saw eye to eye. Although I'd love to have been there when Rafa lost his rag with him and put the arrogant cunt firmly in his fucking place.

 

A little bit more respect here please. We are talking about one of our greatest ever wingers.

[Dicko]

A little bit more respect here please. We are talking about one of our greatest ever wingers.

 

Have you met the man? Being a great player does not preclude you from being an arrogant cunt.

 

If I'd said Tommy Smith or Ian St John were arrogant cunts would of it elicited the same response from you, both are legends as well.

 

“Bob Paisley was totally different," Heighway said. "When he first took over, the players wondered how he was going to cope because he just seemed to be lacking confidence. I called a team meeting. I wasn’t the captain, but in many ways I was the one who kept the players together. I said, 'Look, if we don’t support Bob everything is going to fall apart here.' His team talks were hopeless initially. In the early days it was, ’Jesus Christ, we’re going to have to do this.’ He really didn’t know what to do in the early stages, but he had great players. The great teams do it themselves a lot of the time and we were a well-oiled machine.

 

Tommy & Cally ran that dressing room with an iron fist.

 

"I learned more from coaching in the USA than I ever learned under Shanks & Bob at Liverpool" To paraphrase an old TV interview with him. Another gem.

[MLB]

I completely disagree with Rafa's stance, personally.

[dave u]

I've met Heighway, and never before have I been in the company of someone so adept at talking down to people. After I'd spoken to him, I asked a few other people who have had dealings with him if he's always like this, or maybe it was just me. It wasn't just me.

 

Having said that, I've still got respect for him for what he did at the club, and not just as a player. Dicko has a point though, no doubt about it.

[Pawlu]

When talking with Sons of Shankly earlier this year one of the points Rafa mentioned was that he wants to run the academy and I would guess that will feature in the contract talks.

 

One other point: was reading an interview with Albert Riera and he mentioned that Heighway is currently one of the club's scouts. Is that really the case?

 

Finally, the point tha Durango made about Elias makes sense: I believe that Benitez is following Dalla Valle very closely and he is perhaps Elias' best find so far.

[philyhamann]

Rafa gets on fine with many at the Academy, that doesn't mean they don't say things behind his back about him. I don't want to say too much cause I dunno what was in Daves article and wasn't, my real name is out there and stuffs.

[HJohal]

An excellent article, a few things that stuck in my mind.

 

1, Should the Spirit of Shankly (SOS) not be holding Rafa and Parry & others to account in what is an important matter on behalf of the supporters. The SOS state their constant aims as follows

 

To represent the best interests of supporters of Liverpool Football Club.

To hold whoever owns the football club to account

 

This certainly fits and could be a matter in which they may have some success.

 

2, No surprise - following reading the article - that we have not produced contignous talent from the Academy since Roy Evans left which only highlights the political issues since and the impact it has. Given the ownership issues I see no choice but to give Rafa responsibility of the academy as the current method is not working.

[Randy Marsh]

Read it after the match yesterday. Very disturbing, however equally informative and very well written Dave. Ill be passing it around my dad and his mate who goes the match with us.

[Randy Marsh]

Can i just make a point on the Heighway issue.

 

About 11 years ago my Primary school played in some Merseyside schools cup competition. The finals where at Anfield. We didnt qualify, however each school was asked to send a representative player to the finals. I was selected for ours. All the representatives from the schools where invited on to the pitch at HT (where they do the Academy monthly awards now) when your name was called out, meet a player or ex player, who i cant remember who it was, and received a commemorative pendant and a free goalie shirt. You then had to stand in a line on the pitch infront of a half full main stand and Paddock, waiting for the loads of other kids to get theirs. One of the best moments of my life. Later on towards the end of the night, when i was sat with my dad, we saw Heighway sat in a seat on his own. I asked my dad, and he said i could go and ask him for an autograph. Perfectly politely i asked him, and he flatly refused me, without even looking at me, and said he was too busy watching the football. Obviously my dad who watched him as a boy himself was gutted and disgusted when i went back to him.

 

Thats just a little bit from my experience anyway. Interesting that others have had similar dealings with him as a person. No one is doubting his professional credentials.

[JMARKH]

Can i just make a point on the Heighway issue.

 

About 11 years ago my Primary school played in some Merseyside schools cup competition. The finals where at Anfield. We didnt qualify, however each school was asked to send a representative player to the finals. I was selected for ours. All the representatives from the schools where invited on to the pitch at HT (where they do the Academy monthly awards now) when your name was called out, meet a player or ex player, who i cant remember who it was, and received a commemorative pendant and a free goalie shirt. You then had to stand in a line on the pitch infront of a half full main stand and Paddock, waiting for the loads of other kids to get theirs. One of the best moments of my life. Later on towards the end of the night, when i was sat with my dad, we saw Heighway sat in a seat on his own. I asked my dad, and he said i could go and ask him for an autograph. Perfectly politely i asked him, and he flatly refused me, without even looking at me, and said he was too busy watching the football. Obviously my dad who watched him as a boy himself was gutted and disgusted when i went back to him.

 

Thats just a little bit from my experience anyway. Interesting that others have had similar dealings with him as a person. No one is doubting his professional credentials.

 

My uncle was pissed off with Torres as he didn't sign his autograph for him before the Wigan game in the centenary stand car park, I had phil babb refuse to sign me an autograph once (no big deal I know) but at the time I was gutted as it was when we first signed him, it doesn't take a second and I think its a fuckin disgrace when players or ex players show contempt and arrogance to the fans.

 

As for the academy article I knew there where problems but not until I read the article did I realise how bad the situation was. It turned my stomach to think the new generation of fowlers, gerrards, owens, mcmanamans and carrraghers are likely to end up on the blue half of merseyside, these kind of players are essential in the derbys and other big games. I hope the situation can be sorted, I will be passing the fanzine on to other Reds I know so they can be aware of it as well.

[Stu Monty]

I'm not arguing about that, but Lance said we were all as qualified as Parry's lad to have a coaching job. I pointed out that we aren't, as he has done his coaching badges.

 

He obviously didn't get the job on 'merit', but that's not to say he's a bad coach as I have no idea whether he is or not so I'm not going to slate him when I've got nothing to base it on.

 

As for Hamberg, I said as much in the article that you haven't read but felt compelled to take me to task over :whistle:

 

Speak for yourself Usher.

[Faustus]

I bought a copy of the fanzine before the West Brom match on Saturday and I thought it was a fantastic piece, Dave.

 

It seems to me it's down to a clash of egos between Benitez and Parry. This mess really is damaging the long-term future of the club because as you said, the next Fowler or Gerrard is indeed out there at the moment but there's no way he'd choose our academy over Everton's.

 

I agree with your points that Benitez should not have total control over the academy in case he actually does carry out one of his threats one day and leaves the club, taking all of his staff with him. That would be catastrophic as we'd then have to employ new staff at every level of the club then and would end up costing millions to replace them.

 

Rafa should definitely not have free reign over the academy, but he should have a significant say in who gets the top job. I can understand him being pissed off with the appointment of Hamberg as it does seem strange to me that the man in charge of the playing side of the game at the club doesn't have a say in who gets employed to oversee youth development matters.

 

It's just a ridiculous situation. Parry and Rafa need to bang their heads together and stop acting like a pair of petulant kids. Obviously Rafa has the best interests of the club at heart and even though Parry is a self-serving cunt, I think deep down he must have as well. Both just need to stop the internal bitching and come to a mutual compromise.

[aws]

Speak for yourself Usher.

 

You mean you're actually qualified to talk bollocks about football?

[coop]

When we played Man City a few weeks ago in was mentioned they had more then one reserve teams so they can give all the lads a game.

 

City seem to have a pretty good setup at the moment but whether or not that remains the case now they can in theory just buy the best talent instead of producing them only time will tell but why the fuck we do not have two teams i do not know.

 

Rafa is not blameless in this and like its been pointed out he is playing politics with young lads careers but you can always be sure of one name that pops up whenever there is something wrong at Liverpool and that is Rick Parry.

 

Kenny is a good shout for running the Academy and is instantly not only going to have the youngsters respect but everyone associated with the club know what Dalglish has done for Liverpool.

[Stu Monty]

You mean you're actually qualified to talk bollocks about football?

 

Too right. Got my FA Level 2 award in talking bollocks about football yesterday; I'm hoping it's going to give me a foot in the door at Sky.