Keir Starmer

[Section_31]

Thing is Gnasher you seem to get most of your views from Twitter and cherry picked stats. If labour win both by elections today you won't surface again until Saturday.

 

Labour members aren't the electorate. The electorate by and large don't give a fuck. They say they do, but they don't. And if they do they're more likely to donate to a charity than wave their fist and starmer, who's in a position to do precisely nothing about it.

 

The British electorate doesn't care about food banks or covid. The only thing that saw the Tories plunge was when mortgages went up. Same thing happened with Major's government (was it black Wednesday or some shit?)

 

The british electorate cares about house, job, school, health. Probably in that order.

 

Israel/Palestine is the goose that laid for the golden egg for anyone who loves corbyn and hates starmer. 

 

 

[Gnasher]

32 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Thing is Gnasher you seem to get most of your views from Twitter and cherry picked stats. If labour win both by elections today you won't surface again until Saturday.

 

Yawn. The last tweet was from Zarah Sultana who's a sitting Labour MP. I can assure you my veiws were born before the birth of Twitter. Its a ridiculous argument. Did the 99% of Labour voters who disagreed with Starmers position also get their veiws from twitter? 

 

32 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Labour members aren't the electorate. The electorate by and large don't give a fuck. They say they do, but they don't. And if they do they're more likely to donate to a charity than wave their fist and starmer, who's in a position to do precisely nothing about it.

 

The poll says "Labour voters" tory voters also seem pretty divided. If you accept the poll results of course  

 

 

32 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

The British electorate doesn't care about food banks or covid. The only thing that saw the Tories plunge was when mortgages went up. Same thing happened with Major's government (was it black Wednesday or some shit?)

 

The british electorate cares about house, job, school, health. Probably in that order.

 

Who's saying different? Starmers obviously going to go on tv/radio and be asked his position on world events. Are we not allowed to discuss it? 

32 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Israel/Palestine is the goose that laid for the golden egg for anyone who loves corbyn and hates starmer. 

 

 

Corbyn again. Wondered when his name would be thrown up. I wanted Corbyn to resign six months before the last election when it was obvious the game was up.. Anyway are all those who support a ceasefire rabid Corbyn supporters?  Is the likes of Mo Salah a Corbyn supporterr? Of course they're all not. They are humanitarians. 

[Gnasher]

40 minutes ago, sir roger said:

I've found it strange that Starmer often appears ready to strangle his granny for a single extra vote, while making it quite clear that the only racial bias he is concerned with is anti-semitism, therefore potentially alienating far more voters in other communities than he is gaining in the Jewish community.

 

But then his defenders tell you he's only going back on his promises because it's all about winning votes.  That's the only time he seems impassioned is when he's talking about Israel. Do the people in the red wall seats give a fuck about all this supposed anti semitism? He sacked the democratically elected Mayor of the North East Jamie Driscoll over a trumped up anti semitism charge. Its fucking bullshit. He got rid of him because he was slightly left wing. 

[Carradona]

7 hours ago, Gnasher said:

I don't understand Starmer here. He's a former human rights lawyer so he knows better than anyone that cutting off water is against international law. He's contradicting himself within the same sentence.

 

 

 

 

 

Absolute fucking cunt of a man. What a sorry state British politics is in when that Tory twat is running the Labour Party. 

[Creator Supreme]

I suppose credit where it's due for winning both by-elections yesterday. Both solid tory seats previously with big majorities overturned.

 

I think both seats will swing back tory at the general election but a massive bloody nose for that turd sunak!

[Jack the Sipper]

Reading the last few pages of this thread reminds of why the left in this country are destined to remain in perpetual opposition, shouting from the sidelines, eternally angry, influencing nothing because they've 'got principles'. 

 

Their views, their priorities, their principles aren't shared by the majority of the electorate in this country, and they either just can't get around that concept and accept compromise because, well, they're so obviously right, or they do get it, but just don't care about power. Power's for cowards and establishment stooges. Waving banners and being right is enough. I used to be in the latter camp. Then I woke up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

35 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

Reading the last few pages of this thread reminds of why the left in this country are destined to remain in perpetual opposition, shouting from the sidelines, eternally angry, influencing nothing because they've 'got principles'. 

 

Their views, their priorities, their principles aren't shared by the majority of the electorate in this country, and they either just can't get around that concept and accept compromise because, well, they're so obviously right, or they do get it, but just don't care about power. Waving banners and being right is enough. I used to be in the latter camp. Then I woke up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry but that's just not true. Most of the "veiws, priorities, principles" are not only now shared by the majority of the country but even many tory voters. Renationalisation of assets like water and energy being a prime example.

 

https://weownit.org.uk/blog/biggest-ever-poll-shows-huge-support-nationalisation

 

 

 According to polls most of the country now also welcome a tax on extreme wealth and a fairer tax system were those with the broades tshoulders pay their fair share. Most would welcome investment in our health and care services. On foreign affairs recent polls posted only yesterday on this thread show most of the country seem against our two main political parties stance on the war in Gaza and would welcome a ceasefire. 

 

It suggests the people of this country are moving to the left whilst our politicans move to the right.

[Anubis]

Apparently didn’t even congratulate the winner.

 

[TheSire]

56 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

Reading the last few pages of this thread reminds of why the left in this country are destined to remain in perpetual opposition, shouting from the sidelines, eternally angry, influencing nothing because they've 'got principles'. 

 

Their views, their priorities, their principles aren't shared by the majority of the electorate in this country, and they either just can't get around that concept and accept compromise because, well, they're so obviously right, or they do get it, but just don't care about power. Power's for cowards and establishment stooges. Waving banners and being right is enough. I used to be in the latter camp. Then I woke up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's the former. I used to be similar and constantly outraged and then grew up.

[skend04]

No surprise that Gnasher is deluded. I've said it before but the significant number of British electorate is only interested in socialist policies when it benefits them individually. As soon as they're over the current financial crisis they'll be voting Tory to keep their individual gain. You literally only have to look at 50 years of elections for proof. 

[Dicko]

Yet Corbyn's 2017 manifesto was gold and was universally popular with the electorate.

 

The problem was that it was Corbyn delivering the manifesto. 

 

Oh and that the British working class are subservient boot lickers.

[Moo]

I hope this knobhead doesn't think these by-election wins are an endorsement of him because that's the biggest mistake he will ever make.  If Labour get in power then eventually leave government without significant electoral reform then it will be a disgrace and fall squarely on Starmer's shoulders.

That's actually all I hope from them, to not be as bad as the Tories and to enact electoral reform.  Anything else would be a massive bonus.

[clockspeed]

We need to understand that the majority of the electorate in GB is not left leaning Starmer has to get into government . Kinnock, Corbyn couldn't get in you have to prortray a Conservative light to even be in with a chance and even at that the Conservatives need to be I  disarray.  This is happening and there will be a labour government . 

 

So I am at the stage now even if  Starmers  government is a carbon copy of a Conservative one at least there will be some serious, non corrupt , politicians governing.    Williamson a Lord or a sir , Snapps a minister , an infant appointed to the Lords. They have infected every aspect of our governance with ineptitude and corruption  . Honestly it will be a relief when Labour is elected.

 

Lastly I not raking shit up for  the sake of it but just shining a light on Starmers cautiousness. If corbyn was still leader they would be leading in the polls with what has happened in last 10 days corbyn would have made his feelings/stance  perfectly and rightly clear. You know what ? the press would have sensed their moment and the headlines would have been horrific . Much as I admire the man's principles and humanity you aren't changing anything and I mean nothing while in opposition .  We all need to put our principles to one side , unite even for a short period of time , get these shits out and then fight our ideological battles. 

 

John Smith sadly dying was the biggest disaster to hit the Labour Party in my generation . We could have been looking at 15 years of  proper labour governance rather than having to veer towards new Labour. 

[Gnasher]

Couple of hours after two massive by-election wins the Labour Party "grown ups' take to twitter. Not to celebrate beating the Tories though.

 

 

I believe Len Loach might be the filmmaker who made the 60s movie 'Les.

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, clockspeed said:

We need to understand that the majority of the electorate in GB is not left leaning Starmer has to get into government . Kinnock, Corbyn couldn't get in you have to prortray a Conservative light to even be in with a chance and even at that the Conservatives need to be I  disarray.  This is happening and there will be a labour government . 

 

So I am at the stage now even if  Starmers  government is a carbon copy of a Conservative one at least there will be some serious, non corrupt , politicians governing.    Williamson a Lord or a sir , Snapps a minister , an infant appointed to the Lords. They have infected every aspect of our governance with ineptitude and corruption  . Honestly it will be a relief when Labour is elected.

 

Lastly I not raking shit up for  the sake of it but just shining a light on Starmers cautiousness. If corbyn was still leader they would be leading in the polls with what has happened in last 10 days corbyn would have made his feelings/stance  perfectly and rightly clear. You know what ? the press would have sensed their moment and the headlines would have been horrific . Much as I admire the man's principles and humanity you aren't changing anything and I mean nothing while in opposition .  We all need to put our principles to one side , unite even for a short period of time , get these shits out and then fight our ideological battles. 

 

John Smith sadly dying was the biggest disaster to hit the Labour Party in my generation . We could have been looking at 15 years of  proper labour governance rather than having to veer towards new Labour. 

 

A lot of good points there. The last paragraph is sadly very true.

[Megadrive Man]

7 minutes ago, Moo said:

I hope this knobhead doesn't think these by-election wins are an endorsement of him because that's the biggest mistake he will ever make.  If Labour get in power then eventually leave government without significant electoral reform then it will be a disgrace and fall squarely on Starmer's shoulders.

That's actually all I hope from them, to not be as bad as the Tories and to enact electoral reform.  Anything else would be a massive bonus.

 

What sort of electoral reform do you want them to offer? 

[Arniepie]

thats a huge result for labour

 

 

dyed in the wool tory seat.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

16 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Starmers stance on no ceasefire is represented by 1% of Labour voters if you go by this poll.

 

 

 

"Don't not"?

 

Who wrote that poll, celeryBADboy?

[Section_31]

2 hours ago, Jack the Sipper said:

Reading the last few pages of this thread reminds of why the left in this country are destined to remain in perpetual opposition, shouting from the sidelines, eternally angry, influencing nothing because they've 'got principles'. 

 

Their views, their priorities, their principles aren't shared by the majority of the electorate in this country, and they either just can't get around that concept and accept compromise because, well, they're so obviously right, or they do get it, but just don't care about power. Power's for cowards and establishment stooges. Waving banners and being right is enough. I used to be in the latter camp. Then I woke up.

 

 

Gnasher sums up part of the problem. There's no nuance in the Starmer debate for them, Gnasher essentially waits for something to happen (usually a Tweet) that suits his preconceived view and then jumps on it.

 

I was looking at the winning candidates' backgrounds as I thought they looked a bit posh. One of them is a union rep and the other was the subject of a hatchet job by the S*n because he went on a Greenpeace protest. It hardly fits the narrative of Starmer and his frumentarii 'purging the left'. 

 

No doubt if one of them was a former counter clerk at TSB he'd be on here talking about how the party had been taken over by the big banks. 

 

Just have a look at the usual mouthpieces today. Wall to wall starmer/palestine. 

 

https://skwawkbox.org/

 

https://www.thecanary.co/

 

https://novaramedia.com/

 

 

[Creator Supreme]

49 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Couple of hours after two massive by-election wins the Labour Party "grown ups' take to twitter. Not to celebrate beating the Tories though.

 

 

I believe Len Loach might be the filmmaker who made the 60s movie 'Les.

 

 

 

Lee Harpin is a cunt!

[Gnasher]

27 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

 

Gnasher sums up part of the problem. There's no nuance in the Starmer debate for them, Gnasher essentially waits for something to happen (usually a Tweet) that suits his preconceived view and then jumps on it.

 

You still on this nonsense?. You accused me of posting shit off twitter and "cherry picking" yesterday. What I actually posted was a newspaper article Starmer did that day for the Standard, a interveiw he did on LBC that morning and a tweet from a sitting Labour MP on the war in Gaza  

 

If that's not relevant what is? What are we allowed to post and not post? You're just attacking the messenger/message platform because you don't agree with the message. Is the Evening Standard nor allowed? LBC? The veiws of Zarah Sultana? 

 

I had all this bollocks with Numeros who constantly accused me of posting left wing cranks off the internet  When I pushed him to name one he came up with someone I'd never even heard of (Rachel Swinton?) never mind posted  

 

27 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I was looking at the winning candidates' backgrounds as I thought they looked a bit posh. One of them is a union rep and the other was the subject of a hatchet job by the S*n because he went on a Greenpeace protest. It hardly fits the narrative of Starmer and his frumentarii 'purging the left'. 

 

If you truly believe Starmer hasn't purged the left you are seriously deluded. 

 

Just a few.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/16/labour-keir-starmer-left-government-leader

 

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/03/starmers-purge-dishonest-undemocratic-unwise

 

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/labour-selection-process-keir-starmer-maurice-mcleod-lauren-townsend/

 

https://bylinetimes.com/2023/07/05/labour-and-thhttps://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mick-lynch-keir-starmer-labour-rmt-john-mcdonnell-b1092542.htmle-purge-leaderships-direction-sparks-revolt-among-mps-and-activists/

 

https://unherd.com/2023/06/starmer-will-regret-purging-the-left/

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-purge-labour-mps-b2403166.html

 

 

 

27 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

No doubt if one of them was a former counter clerk at TSB he'd be on here talking about how the party had been taken over by the big banks. 

 

Your personal attacks are now sounding ridiculous. 

 

27 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Just have a look at the usual mouthpieces today. Wall to wall starmer/palestine. 

 

https://skwawkbox.org/

 

https://www.thecanary.co/

 

https://novaramedia.com/

 

 

 

The usual mouthpieces which are rarely posted here . I haven't looked at the links and I'm not going to but why shouldn't they comment on Starmer and Gaza? 

[an tha]

Hugely encouraging results last night.

 

When there is a turn in backwards shitholes like Tamworth - places chocker full of thick little Ingerlunders then you know change is finally coming.

 

 

[an tha]

1 hour ago, Moo said:

I hope this knobhead doesn't think these by-election wins are an endorsement of him because that's the biggest mistake he will ever make.  If Labour get in power then eventually leave government without significant electoral reform then it will be a disgrace and fall squarely on Starmer's shoulders.

That's actually all I hope from them, to not be as bad as the Tories and to enact electoral reform.  Anything else would be a massive bonus.

Because this country is full of thick, right wing cunts who have been drip fed right wing propoganda from all angles for so long that it has become "the truth", any attempts to win them over with left wing ideas and policies have been constantly and ruthlessly destroyed and rejected. 

 

And what Lab usually stands for has been attacked and demonised in the media relentlessly - it has been a none stop war on "woke" "socialism" etc etc etc.

 

The only way we can get change IMO is for Lab to win these people over by appearing less left wing and then once in power show them through giving them a better country to live in that actually what they have been told to hate and what has been rubbished and all the fear that has been spread was wrong.....

 

 

[House of Dirk]

3 hours ago, Creator Supreme said:

I suppose credit where it's due for winning both by-elections yesterday. Both solid tory seats previously with big majorities overturned.

 

I think both seats will swing back tory at the general election but a massive bloody nose for that turd sunak!

A few more war zones for him to visit and stand on a box next to whichever leader pledging solidarity and support before he gets home

[House of Dirk]

9 minutes ago, an tha said:

Hugely encouraging results last night.

 

When there is a turn in backwards shitholes like Tamworth - places chocker full of thick little Ingerlunders then you know change is finally coming.

 

 

 

Central Beds is up the road from me and my feeling was the Tories would sneak through, albeit on a much reduced majority